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Thread: At witts end.

  1. #21
    Premium Member webtrekker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david418 View Post
    Think I might have to get an oven. My results are still poor.
    As recommended I’ve tried 180c for 180 seconds and the top and bottom look good but in the middle the blacks come out brown.




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    Blacks usually turn brown due to too high a temperature. One thing that may be causing this is an uneven temperature spread over the heat blanket of your press.


  2. #22
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    I just tried another test with the same image.
    I put the paper on the mug and put it in the press at 110c for 120 seconds. Immediately I changed the settings to 165c for 120 seconds and the blacks are far better, still browning a little and the bottom is fading.


    Definitely going to be looking for an oven.
    I can not even consider selling anything until I can get consistent and decent results.



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  3. #23
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    David, honestly I wouldn't get too excited about the oven being the solution to everything. I still have problems with blacks, with over-cooking (white areas going slightly beige), and with under-cooked, faded patches, blurred prints and colour where it's not wanted etc. I have got to the point where I generally know what's gone wrong, but it doesn't mean I get reliable, consistent results. Out of every five mugs I make, I reckon at least one is flawed enough for me to consider it a 'second'. It's getting better, but it's not "reliable". I make a lot of bone china mugs, so cocking one up is painful!!

    I have concluded that dye sub is still in it's infancy and we are often using kit that isn't intended for this purpose. One of the major problems is that there are so many variables - times, temps, pressure and how it's applied, printer ICC profiles, the actual colour profile in your software, the surface you're sublimating onto (ie glass is different to ceramic is different to neoprene is different to wood...). It takes a long time to get a feel for it - this forum's been incredibly useful but it is also just a LOT of trial and error.

    And in my experience the printers themselves are a whole new world of pain (although the cheap and cheerful £50 Epson 2010 I'm using has been by far the best of the bunch so far - go figure!)

    Anyway, my point is, you should brace yourself to go through at least two dozen mugs and 100s of sheets of paper before you work out how to get reliable results from your set up. You're half-way there with the mug press - personally I'd stick with it for a bit longer and accept that you need to iron out the kinks, before you get a new setup and have to start the process all over again.

    That's my 2p's worth, anyway... good luck!

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  5. #24
    Premium Member webtrekker's Avatar
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    I'd just like to add to what Ruth has said above. When the designing is in your hands, then do yourself a favour and keep within the limits of your equipment, materials, and experience. If you're having a hard time doing full-area wraps then resize them so that you get a perfect pressing almost every time.

    Another thing I do is that I tend to stay away from personalised mugs that require a full-area wrap. Stick to your own, non-personalised designs. In this way you can print a few mugs at your leisure and they will be ready to go whenever you get an order for them. This removes the pressure of trying to complete a personalised order on time when everything seems to be going wrong.

    If you take control, knowing your limitations, then you will make far less scrap and it won't eat into your precious time, or profits.

    On the other hand you can ignore everything I've just said and prove me wrong!


  6. #25
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    David - that is not a bad effort on full top to bottom. Lift the design just 5mm off the bottom and give yourself a bit of a chance of avoiding the main heat sink on the mug. You are just about there. Ovens are probably easier for that type of mug but do bring their own issues if using very often. Gassing is a bit of a pain to get around. If it is smaller numbers then probably be okay and gives top to bottom results more consistently.

  7. #26
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    David, I'm using the same setup as you, a galaxy mug press pro, sublisplash inks and I'm using Xpres 5013 mugs. I use my press 180 degrees for 200 seconds. The mugs I can print are top to bottom and are pretty much immaculate. What kind of pressure are you using? Did you buy your press new or second hand?

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikejohno1 View Post
    David, I'm using the same setup as you, a galaxy mug press pro, sublisplash inks and I'm using Xpres 5013 mugs. I use my press 180 degrees for 200 seconds. The mugs I can print are top to bottom and are pretty much immaculate. What kind of pressure are you using? Did you buy your press new or second hand?
    Hi Mike,
    The Press was purchased new, but I had issues initially with the element being faulty, Being new, it took me a while to realise ĎI didnít just need to get the settings correctí and the element was at fault. With well over 50 mugs lost as scrap, frustration ruled.
    When I got the replacement element, I spent a long time on the Saturday, trying different times and temperatures - printing a test mug with a photo, RGB, CMYK, Black, Rich black swatches and screenshots of the photoshop settings - along with the individual time and temperature printed on to each mug as comparisons. Possibly over kill but I did find that 165c for 100 to 110 seconds being the best for the black swatches. Much over 170c and my blacks began browning. Then 2 days later and a proper print job and the mugs were looking terrible again, this I now believe was due to the temperature of the mugs being very cold. I am finding that pre heating is now helping, initially Iíd disregarded this helped as the original results were decidedly worse with pre heating whilst using the faulty element.

    With regard to the pressure, after a few tests I found that 7 full rotations of the threaded pressure bolt/bar was working. This holds the mug tight in the press so it wonít move by pushing against the handle.

    Today Iíve got a much sunny disposition on the situation, due to the few mugs produced today all came out looking good and even better I can charge for them.




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  9. #28
    Premium Member webtrekker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webtrekker View Post
    I'll probably be able to whittle that time down, as I said, this was my first attempt with a halogen oven and I wanted to start at the high end to make sure I got good sublimation without fading.

    Maybe I should get myself a thermometer though as you suggest.
    Well, I got an oven thermometer and discovered my halogen oven was actually 20 degrees C below the 180 degrees set on the dial, so I have upped the dial temperature and am now getting a constant 180 degrees C in the oven. Haven't tried cooking another mug yet but hopefully this might reduce the time needed.


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