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View Full Version : Selling On Amazon Grrrrrrrr Rant Grrrrr



Ucase Ltd
10-02-2015, 02:46 PM
So I decided to test the waters on Amazon.

Got a free account - Then found out I had to purchase EAN codes for each product - DONE.

Listed my first item (which is no simple task compared to anywhere else I've listed before) - DONE.

Then I get to see the Fees etc...

I listed my item at £3.99

They will take £2.04 as a selling fee! - Not good but I could swallow it for the time being.

The REAL Kicker is THEY set the postage cost at £4.59! - This item weighs less than 50grms when packed and can fit into an A5 envelope. They call it "administration costs" - (I'm shipping by the way not using their fulfillment program).

I would receive some of that £4.59 back but that's not the point - Who in their right mind would pay £4.59 postage on a small £3.99 item?

The only way I can edit postage is to get a 'PRO' account at £25+vat p/m. I'm not prepared to do that until I've tested the market, which I can't do at those prices.

I'm not new to selling online on all kinds of platforms with all kinds of different products but I've never seen a platform where the seller has no say in shipping costs.

O.K - Rant Over.

viccar
10-02-2015, 04:31 PM
You can usually get a free 3 month trial for the pro account, i did, but unless you are prepared to be the lowest price its not worth it.

Ucase Ltd
10-02-2015, 05:24 PM
You can usually get a free 3 month trial for the pro account, i did, but unless you are prepared to be the lowest price its not worth it.

I wasn't aware of that so I might look into it - Thanks!

I'm not too worried about being lowest price as nobody else is selling my product :)

bigj2552
11-02-2015, 05:23 PM
So I decided to test the waters on Amazon.

Got a free account - Then found out I had to purchase EAN codes for each product - DONE.

Listed my first item (which is no simple task compared to anywhere else I've listed before) - DONE.

Then I get to see the Fees etc...

I listed my item at £3.99

They will take £2.04 as a selling fee! - Not good but I could swallow it for the time being.

The REAL Kicker is THEY set the postage cost at £4.59! - This item weighs less than 50grms when packed and can fit into an A5 envelope. They call it "administration costs" - (I'm shipping by the way not using their fulfillment program).

I would receive some of that £4.59 back but that's not the point - Who in their right mind would pay £4.59 postage on a small £3.99 item?

The only way I can edit postage is to get a 'PRO' account at £25+vat p/m. I'm not prepared to do that until I've tested the market, which I can't do at those prices.

I'm not new to selling online on all kinds of platforms with all kinds of different products but I've never seen a platform where the seller has no say in shipping costs.

O.K - Rant Over.


you need to set your item price to counter act amazon shipping price if you not seller pro - rough example :

shipping cost from amazon - £4.39 - your product price £0.99 - so the total the buyer sees/pays is - £5.38
your shipping cost for one phone case if franked is 2nd class @ 0.61p + jiffy bag / ink / phone case ect

and its not £2 selling fee ( prob is for a £8+ case )....we only payed from 0.75p - 0.95p ( depending on case price ) fee when we were not pro seller...
you selling your case at - £4.59 + £3.99 = £8.58 !!! :eek:

just the way amazon works my friend..if you not pro seller
those were only sample figures above...but £8+ for a phone case...good luck !

Ucase Ltd
11-02-2015, 05:37 PM
you need to set your item price to counter act amazon shipping price if you not seller pro - rough example :

Thanks for that! I might have another go with the info you've given above.

It's not phone cases I'm selling on Amazon - I realised pretty quickly I needed to diversify so I've totally rebuilt the website and re-branded as "Photo Gifts".

Ideally I want to charge around 4.99 total.

I'll report back and let you know how I got on.

michaelc
10-03-2015, 05:56 PM
I'm a pro seller and reckon I do as much on Amazon as eBay, like for like. Apart from Amazon, eBay and Etsy, what other decent marketplaces are there for UK users? Mostly selling sub mugs, many with a military theme.

GoonerGary
10-03-2015, 07:50 PM
Maybe folksy?

ManicMonday
04-11-2016, 09:27 AM
I'm shipping by the way not using their fulfillment program.



I don't know about selling as non-Pro or outside of the fulfillment program. This does sound strange though. I have a friend using the fulfillment program and so far she has no complaints. Of course your costs are all based on how much you actually sell.

I think the main advantage of selling on Amazon, aside from getting access to their massive network, is usually for shipping: their express shipping or one day shipping options, plus return policies. They deal with all of that so you don't have to.

I wouldn't put it past them though to squeeze out the independents so that everyone wanting to sell on the platform has to go Pro or go fulfillment. Might be their tactic here.

ManicMonday
04-11-2016, 09:28 AM
Oh.....I only now saw how old this thread is :confused:

Sedgewick
05-11-2017, 09:55 PM
This is an old thread but SUCH a useful thread!!

Question 1: Is anyone selling mugs on Amazon (or other circa £10 products) and using Amazon fulfilment - and is the cost worth it in your view?

Question 2: Is anyone selling mugs on Amazon (or other circa £10 products) and NOT using Amazon fulfilment?

I've heard that if you don't use it it's much harder for people to find your listings... Is that true, or are you managing well without it?

Customprintwales
06-11-2017, 11:44 AM
I sell mugs both FBA and FBM

Both a financially worth doing but I get better profits from FBM.

Sales of FBM are much, much better than FBA so I don't think visibility is an issue. It's more a case that there are a few Prime members who filter out FBM items but at this time of year this is minimal impact on sales.

Of course, at the moment Amazon are not paying their sellers due to technical issues. It's now into the 2nd week and Amazon can give no indication when they will start paying sellers.

So it's your choice of making no money on FBA or making no money on FBM :)

Sedgewick
06-11-2017, 12:48 PM
So it's your choice of making no money on FBA or making no money on FBM :)

I like those options!!!!

OK, well good to know it isn't worse on FBM for visibility..

Do you ever consider Etsy or Ebay or Folksy - given the mess Amazon is making of things?

froggy
06-11-2017, 06:57 PM
Depending on your product and its price point, Amazon will out perform Etsy in sales numbers by a mile. I have a single product which sells around 40-50 units a day ( its a xmas related product so sales have no where peaked yet) on ebay 7-10 units per day, Etsy not sold one yet, higher price point but still good value for money.

All online market places have their pros and cons, you just have to mould your business so that it fits what those marketplaces want.

Sedgewick
06-11-2017, 08:05 PM
Incredibly helpful. One other question for you, Froggy, if you don't mind?

Did you find it took time to get traffic on Amazon when you FIRST started - or was it just a case of whether people liked the product or not?

I'm not on Amazon yet, but I was thinking of the so-called Google sandbox - where Google makes it very hard to rank highly in their search results for the first six months.

Is it like that on Amazon - or is it a level playing field right from the start?

TerryQ
07-11-2017, 12:06 AM
Personally, I hate Amazon (as a seller) LOVE it as a buyer haha The fees are too high & too complicated., they make it difficult than it needs to be to list items, they also watch how your products sell...VERY closely, and then if they do well, the produce and sell Very similar products to your great sellers, or exactly the same, for less than you! therefore, taking your business.

I don't know how some sellers managed to sell their products for the price they do, and still make a profit.

A colleague of mine does actually use fulfilment, and he says it does take out a HUGE load of work for you. They take care of the packaging and the shipping, pick and pack for you, and also, you tend to get more sales, as shoppers can then choose many products from different suppliers, including yourself, and pay only the one postage, or no postage of they are on prime. So, a seller may buy a product from company A, also a product from you, place it into their basket, and get both products with minimal or no postage. Whereas, if Amazon didn't do fulfilment, they would have to pay for your postage also...so, can work out very well

GoonerGary
07-11-2017, 12:38 AM
Personally, I hate Amazon (as a seller) LOCE it as a buyer haha they also watch how your products sell...VERY closely, and then if they do well, the produce and sell Very similar products to your great sellers, or exactly the same, for less than you! therefore, taking your business.



There is a mug printer in Ireland who has been stealing my artwork repeatedly to print on mugs. This time the listing stated despatched and sold by Amazon!

TerryQ
07-11-2017, 12:48 AM
There is a mug printer in Ireland who has been stealing my artwork repeatedly to print on mugs. This time the listing stated despatched and sold by Amazon!

Yup.... If Amazon see you are doing well, they produce the items themselves and always undercut you... Crafty, devious and unscrupolus!

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 01:10 AM
Guys, what you're saying is terrifying. If Amazon actually create similar/duplicate products of best sellers to undercut us, that's morally reprehensible.

Is it even legal? We're business partnering with them, in a way... (I say "we" - I'm not on there yet!!)

I am pretty worried about having my designs stolen - but by other sellers, not Amazon...

It's not arrogance -it's more that I've looked online at my competition, and I notice that there are often many slightly different versions of the same mug. (Same exact wording, slightly different image.)

So, I know it happens - but for Amazon to do it is shocking.

Is there anything at all we can do about this? Aren't you guys extremely worried? How on earth do you survive if Amazon/other people are stealing your designs - and selling them for less?

Would a copyright sign on the mugs help?

I am using an animal in my designs that is trademarked as my logo - but, obviously, the animal is doing different things in each mug so it isn't my actual trademark, but it's the trademarked animal with different expressions and positions.

If someone draws something similar, am I protected because of the trademark?
I don't know - it's frustrating because the official line, is that people must not don't steal other people's work, but the unofficial line is that no one will do anything about it.

If a burglar breaks into my house and steals from me, it's theft and a criminal offence.

Not sure how this is different.

TerryQ
07-11-2017, 01:41 AM
Guys, what you're saying is terrifying. If Amazon actually create similar/duplicate products of best sellers to undercut us, that's morally reprehensible.

Is it even legal? We're business partnering with them, in a way... (I say "we" - I'm not on there yet!!)

I am pretty worried about having my designs stolen - but by other sellers, not Amazon...

It's not arrogance -it's more that I've looked online at my competition, and I notice that there are often many slightly different versions of the same mug. (Same exact wording, slightly different image.)

So, I know it happens - but for Amazon to do it is shocking.

Is there anything at all we can do about this? Aren't you guys extremely worried? How on earth do you survive if Amazon/other people are stealing your designs - and selling them for less?

Would a copyright sign on the mugs help?

I am using an animal in my designs that is trademarked as my logo - but, obviously, the animal is doing different things in each mug so it isn't my actual trademark, but it's the trademarked animal with different expressions and positions.

If someone draws something similar, am I protected because of the trademark?
I don't know - it's frustrating because the official line, is that people must not don't steal other people's work, but the unofficial line is that no one will do anything about it.

If a burglar breaks into my house and steals from me, it's theft and a criminal offence.

Not sure how this is different.

it absolutely is reprehensible

i ceased trading with amazon because of their tactics. I was warned about it by others, but thought got it was here say. However, after experiencing it first hand - I know it’s true!!

Amazon seem to be untouchable because of their power, budget and size. I think amazon is ok for a short time, but in the long run, there is o lynone winnwr- and it’s them.

However, I’m sure lots of other people have differing views to
me - and I wish them
all the best.

Personally - I choose not to do business with them - going it alone, and occasionally on other selling platforms.

Never a a dull moment eh?

GoonerGary
07-11-2017, 01:45 AM
Amazon discounts other sellers' products as retail competition stiffens.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-discounts/amazon-discounts-other-sellers-products-as-retail-competition-stiffens-idUSKBN1D512G?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=5a00e01304d3011667d97e1c&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

pisquee
07-11-2017, 09:57 AM
Amazon discounts other sellers' products as retail competition stiffens.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-discounts/amazon-discounts-other-sellers-products-as-retail-competition-stiffens-idUSKBN1D512G?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=5a00e01304d3011667d97e1c&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Yeah just read about that too over on NOTHS FB Forum.

As for Amazon ripping off designs/products, another thing they do if watch sellers who are performing well, and instead of ripping them off they buy products wholesale from the seller to sell themselves. (I know companies that this has happened to)

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 11:53 AM
it absolutely is reprehensible


Personally - I choose not to do business with them - going it alone, and occasionally on other selling platforms.


May I ask which platforms you've found most helpful? Ebay, Etsy or Folksy?

I am worried that if I don't use Amazon I just won't get the sales.

I have a website, and subscribers (all 70 of them...and I'm only getting about 100 unique viewers on my website a day...) it's a VERY new brand, and I've only just finished creating the first mug designs),my four social media channels have only about 300 followers on each.

Realistically, Amazon was where I was thinking I could get traffic from. Now I may do Facebook Advertising instead. I've found it costs me 30p to get a blog subscriber, but no idea how much I'd have to pay to get sales! Will find out once I've printed some mugs!

I wonder though - if a design of yours is successful it would probably rank high on Google Shopping and come to Amazon's attention that way? So, it's not an insurance against them copying you, and you'd probably get so many more sales via Amazon?

NOTE: I'm a newbie and I know NOTHING! These are just my assumptions!

Customprintwales
07-11-2017, 12:09 PM
Not sure there is a google sandbox, in fact it is just the opposite. Google gives extra prominence to new sites to see how searchers respond to it. It used to be called the Google Honeymoon period and lasts for about 3 months.

Google uses the data from this promoted period to determine what sort of click through you get and the keywords that people respond to regarding your site.

That's how it used to be a few years ago when I was a TC at Google Webmaster Forums. I've not heard of any major changes resulting in a 'sandbox' effect.

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 12:12 PM
Yeah just read about that too over on NOTHS FB Forum.

As for Amazon ripping off designs/products, another thing they do if watch sellers who are performing well, and instead of ripping them off they buy products wholesale from the seller to sell themselves. (I know companies that this has happened to)

But that's different - as long as you can say no! I would not sell to them wholesale!

We need to work out if there is an upcoming Amazon competitor - and get in early. My understanding is that Amazon is doing similar to what Ebay did - they begin by making it a fantastic place to sell, then they get greedy, and sellers leave.

So, if I could just get in EARLY somewhere...

What do you think of Not On The High Street?

TerryQ
07-11-2017, 12:24 PM
May I ask which platforms you've found most helpful? Ebay, Etsy or Folksy?

I am worried that if I don't use Amazon I just won't get the sales.

I have a website, and subscribers (all 70 of them...and I'm only getting about 100 unique viewers on my website a day...) it's a VERY new brand, and I've only just finished creating the first mug designs),my four social media channels have only about 300 followers on each.

Realistically, Amazon was where I was thinking I could get traffic from. Now I may do Facebook Advertising instead. I've found it costs me 30p to get a blog subscriber, but no idea how much I'd have to pay to get sales! Will find out once I've printed some mugs!

I wonder though - if a design of yours is successful it would probably rank high on Google Shopping and come to Amazon's attention that way? So, it's not an insurance against them copying you, and you'd probably get so many more sales via Amazon?

NOTE: I'm a newbie and I know NOTHING! These are just my assumptions!

Hi there.

personally, I do get sales from my Facebook business pages, by boosting posts(cheaply) and also regular adverts. I do well from my website and subscribers too.

I have played with e-bay and etsy - but, for me, they rent great

I also go to lots of local things, and set up stall - such as School Christmas/Summer Fayres, Have a display at a local Golf club where members see the products and order. I made flyers and distributed them, left them in GP surgeries etc (with their permission of course) Placed small advertisements in a couple of local rags - that kind of thing.

Usually, once you get a few orders under your belt, you should find that orders come via recommendations too, as one person you do a mug for, will either gift it or drink from it, then their friends will ask where they got it from etc

With the website, just do as much set as you can on it, and make sure you try and select the best keywords you can think of for your products, make your website content unique - don't copy and paste content from other websites (Google will penalise you) etc

Your website can take quite some time to be indexed and move up the page rank for the given keywords, but keep at it, and hopefully you will see results :-)

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 12:36 PM
Hi there.

personally, I do get sales from my Facebook business pages, by boosting posts(cheaply) and also regular adverts. I do well from my website and subscribers too.

I have played with e-bay and etsy - but, for me, they rent great

I also go to lots of local things, and set up stall - such as School Christmas/Summer Fayres, Have a display at a local Golf club where members see the products and order. I made flyers and distributed them, left them in GP surgeries etc (with their permission of course) Placed small advertisements in a couple of local rags - that kind of thing.

Usually, once you get a few orders under your belt, you should find that orders come via recommendations too, as one person you do a mug for, will either gift it or drink from it, then their friends will ask where they got it from etc

With the website, just do as much set as you can on it, and make sure you try and select the best keywords you can think of for your products, make your website content unique - don't copy and paste content from other websites (Google will penalise you) etc

Your website can take quite some time to be indexed and move up the page rank for the given keywords, but keep at it, and hopefully you will see results :-)

Thank you so much for your helpful advice. Yes, I regularly post original content (a blog) on the website, each post is based around a keyword, I use Yoast - a free Wordpress plugin, as I have a WordPress site.

I feel so disappointed to hear about Amazon's behaviour though. I'm stunned.

I bet there's a watchdog out there who can call them out for this? Even if it's not illegal, they would hate the bad press.

I'm sure there are LOTS of Amazon sellers who would sign a petition to get this raised in the House of Commons - you only need 100,000 signatures.

It's bad for UK business if Amazon is undercutting its sellers. We are a nation of small business owners. I believe public opinion would also be on our side.

Look at these THREE virtually identical mug designs!! I wonder if this is Amazon or other sellers creating virtually the same mug??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-What-Want-Quality-Coffee/dp/B01MSBYQNK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510054645&sr=8-1&keywords=i+do+what+i+want+mug&dpID=41pTigmyBXL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Want-Funny-Mugs-Coffee/dp/B01N5QNREN/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1510054645&sr=8-2&keywords=i+do+what+i+want+mug&dpID=41jz3fg-JWL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Funny-Coffee-Middle-Finger/dp/B01D6RN30C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1510054645&sr=8-3&keywords=i+do+what+i+want+mug&dpID=413w0WuLt6L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch\

froggy
07-11-2017, 04:38 PM
It will be three sellers creating "similar" designs, You wont get a line to yourself for long, thats another price of exposure, sellers are searching for lines that sell, if they find one then they will either piggyback on your listing or create another similar listing(and undercut you to try and get the product ranked.)

There will be lots of sellers on Amazon, who understand the marketplace properly and are geared up to sell on it, who will be hoping their competitors leave either through being priced out or give up due to the difficulties of operating on that marketplace.

Trouble is, that for every one who goes there are two or three more wanting to take their place.

Unless you are set up for it, then marketplace selling is really tough, the ones who have been there a while are finding things harder, if you are new, then the odds are (IMO) stacked against you.

IMO if you are a one man band set up, then Etsy, folksy and other "craft" type market places are maybe better suited than the volume sites.

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 05:34 PM
Unless you are set up for it, then marketplace selling is really tough, the ones who have been there a while are finding things harder, if you are new, then the odds are (IMO) stacked against you.

IMO if you are a one man band set up, then Etsy, folksy and other "craft" type market places are maybe better suited than the volume sites.

Hmm... I hear what you're saying. Depressing stuff. The only thing I have in my favour is that (probably) unlike the "quick buck" sellers who lurk about trying to steal designs, I've built a brand around my upcoming designs.

Meaning that I created the brand first, and although my following is small - it's very passionate. I've created videos, memes, blogs, etc. I hope people will feel like they're buying into something bigger than just mugs.

I'd rather fight than run from thieves. I think I would write on my profile: Accept no imitations, these are the real deal. Some won't care, but many don't even KNOW that people are simply stealing other people's designs on Amazon. I didn't. I'd acknowledge on my listing that there are similar mugs, and make people aware that they're copycats.

And I'd brand my packaging in a way that they're getting something special.

Something in me can't allow that I would stay away from the largest marketplace, and miss out on a lot of profit, because of lazy scammers.

You've given the best advice, but something in me can't accept it.

I know, I know - I'm being naive but this is how I feel.

froggy
07-11-2017, 07:04 PM
I wish you all the best, IMO establishing brands, especially premium brands is extremely difficult on a "value led" market place. To establish strong brand loyalty is extremely expensive and takes time...not a great combination of factors.

Ive been doing this for 4/5 years, the value of my "brand" is realistically, virtually zero, I could change my brand name tomorrow and sales would remain the same (or drop slightly- due to messing with the listings) the value of my sales and profitability, well thats a different story.

Sales virtually conquers all (just make sure you are making a nett profit) otherwise they will just put you out of business a bit quicker.

Sedgewick
07-11-2017, 07:40 PM
I wish you all the best, IMO establishing brands, especially premium brands is extremely difficult on a "value led" market place. To establish strong brand loyalty is extremely expensive and takes time...not a great combination of factors.

Ive been doing this for 4/5 years, the value of my "brand" is realistically, virtually zero, I could change my brand name tomorrow and sales would remain the same (or drop slightly- due to messing with the listings) the value of my sales and profitability, well thats a different story.

Sales virtually conquers all (just make sure you are making a nett profit) otherwise they will just put you out of business a bit quicker.

Mine is not a premium brand!! It's a fun and quirky, maverick brand - think Cards Against Humanity - only in the sense that it's bold and playful.

I know what you're thinking - few are going to go to Amazon looking for my brand! True!

But people who buy my mugs and don't know about the brand, will learn about it through the packaging. I hope to get some sign ups to my email list where I can keep that customer and maybe get more purchases from them in the future via discounts if they buy two mugs, etc.

I am an incurable optimist - but I've found little else works in life! With my last business, I always took on contracts that were a big stretch and pride wouldn't allow me to fail.

With this, if I fail, I will try new designs. I will just keep testing and testing and testing, taking on board feedback, until something works!

You have made me think twice about Amazon. I will definitely focus more on Facebook ads /posts than Amazon.

JMugs
07-11-2017, 07:44 PM
More mayhem from Amazon...see my separate thread rather than hijacking this one.