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alanw15
25-08-2010, 08:14 PM
Hi

Can you tell me if colour laser printers can be used for mug printing. I have the Magic TouchCPM6.2 Hard Surface printing sheets which i got with a job lot of Cup and T Shirt heat presses.

Thanks in advance

bms
26-08-2010, 02:18 PM
Yes you can use CPM6.2 for printing onto mugs. The end result isn't as good as sublimation, but it is possible.

alanw15
26-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Just tested it out and worked ok :D But as you say not as good as sublimation i.e not as shiny.

How long will a laser print on a T Shirt last?

bms
26-08-2010, 11:55 PM
Are you using TTC3.1 or something similar? I think they last for 50+ washes so fairly permanent. Don't think I've washed mine more than 50 times yet :roll:

alanw15
29-08-2010, 10:28 AM
Im using the Magic touch papers for T-Shirts.

I have heard that you are meant to glaze the mugs after you have taken the paper off. How do i glaze them? Is it just a case of putting them back in the heat press for a while?

bms
29-08-2010, 11:45 AM
I think this refers to putting the mug back in the press afterwards. Print as normal and remove the CPM paper from the mug. Then wrap the mug with grease proof paper or silicon paper and press again for, say 20 seconds.

alanw15
29-08-2010, 11:49 AM
cheers for the reply. Will go and get some greese proof paper in a min and give it a try :D

alanw15
29-08-2010, 01:01 PM
Ok, well i tried it and.............. grease proof paper stuck to the mug and had to scrub it under water to get it off and photo looks dark, dull and not glazed???

I heated mug to 180 and left for 180 seconds. Some of the print also pulled off after the mug was left to go cold. im using the coated sub mugs as well

Any ideas what went wrong?

bms
29-08-2010, 03:59 PM
I heated mug to 180 and left for 180 seconds. Some of the print also pulled off after the mug was left to go cold. im using the coated sub mugs as well

Did you do this with the CPM material? I don't have the figures to hand, but I thought CPM transferred a lot quicker than this.

alanw15
29-08-2010, 04:05 PM
yeah i used the CPM material at their recommended temps and speeds and that was even worse, pulled around 30% of the print off. :shock:

At the temp and speeds i used 99.9% of the print stuck to the mug although the prints come out a bit dark and not shiny at all.

bms
29-08-2010, 05:32 PM
I do know from experience that the laser transfer process to mugs isn't as good as sublimation - even TMT ackowledge this. I don't have a huge knowledge of what works and doesn't work with the CPM onto mugs, so it might be worth a call to TMT next week.

alanw15
30-08-2010, 04:18 PM
Well, my attemt at glazing them went slightly on the wrong side, kind of heated them to long and mugs turned bronw. @nd attempt was better but nowhere close to the finish sublimation cups are.

So my next question :lol:

CISS systems, provided they are made for the relevant printes will they work with Sublimation inks or do i need a special CISS system.

Im looking at the EPSON S21 printer and found the CISS for it all for £50 delivered so will just need the inks.

Thanks for all you help so far.

accdave
30-08-2010, 04:44 PM
I think we should have a big sticky at the top of the board.

DO NOT LET DODGY DEALERS TELL YOU THE EPSON S21 IS SUITABLE FOR SUBLIMATION :D

alanw15
30-08-2010, 04:50 PM
what's wrong with them for sublimation?

accdave
30-08-2010, 04:53 PM
Just type S21 in the search option at the top. ;)

bms
30-08-2010, 05:22 PM
what's wrong with them for sublimation?

There's no profile for the S21 and as it is the cheapest Epson printer that Epson produce then the quality of the printer isn't very good. Tests with Sawgrass led to too many problems to warrant it being supported.

Often buying the printer and then a CIS can be a false economy. With the S21 you still will end up spending £200 +vat on 4 lots of sublimation ink and then you'll struggle with getting the colours to match correctly as there isn't a profile. Spending a little more would give you a supported printer, CIS and inks fully primed with a colour correction profile as well as support from the dealer that sold you the system in case of problems. The Epson B40W is the Epson A4 model that's supported and for around £320 +vat you get the printer, CIS, Artainium sublimation inks, profile etc.

alanw15
30-08-2010, 05:34 PM
i have an Epson R360 inkjet could i use that if they do a profile for it as its just sitting doing nothing?

bms
30-08-2010, 08:02 PM
Sorry, the R360 wasn't supported either. Current A4 model is the B40W, A3 is the B1100 or Photo 1400 and then the Ricoh A4 GXe3300 and the A3 is the GX7000.

Ian M
30-08-2010, 08:29 PM
DO NOT LET DODGY DEALERS TELL YOU THE EPSON S21 IS SUITABLE FOR SUBLIMATION

Here is proof you can't use the S21 for sublimation!

As I have said before I'm using one with the D88 profile & to be honest I'm finding it better & a lot more reliable than the D120 I was using before. I had one small problem the other week when part of a print was a bit light. I did a nozzle clean & every print since then has been perfect.

Ian :lol: :evil: :oops: :roll:

alanw15
30-08-2010, 08:35 PM
Those mugs look alot better than my laser prints turned out, kind of a million fold :lol:

Im just branching out in this business as i mainly do Vehicle livery and decals etc etc. After buying a colour laser and heat presses etc etc money is now tight so i need something cheap for the moment till i recoup some money.

The colour laser will now be made to print the t shirts etc and use the sublimation just for mugs

Ian M
30-08-2010, 08:51 PM
Hi Alan,

Money was tight for me too & that is why I went for the S21 with a CISS. I had a think & thought I'll try the D88 profile & hey presto it worked.

Although I wouldn't take any notice of me as I haven't a clue what I'm talking about ;) :(

Oh by the way I have just started doing T-shirts & took a few samples to a show last week to see what the reaction was. I came away with over 50 orders :lol:

Good Luck mate.

Ian

bms
30-08-2010, 09:27 PM
As Ian shows, the S21 (like any Epson printer) will work and if you can get it to work reliably and with good colour matching then great. The problem however may be that you might not be so lucky or the printer may fail prematurely. If everything works then you're on to a winner, but for the relatively small difference in price in buying a bulk feed system and then inks (on an S21 then the figures above were about £267 inc for the inks and the CIS, compared to £257 inc for the CIS and inks for the B40W - assuming you had the printer already) I don't really see the benefit outweighs the potential risk.

The only 'extra' cost is the cost of the printer - yes the S21 is cheaper than the B40W.

So yes you can use any Epson printer, the S21, the R360 or anything else, but if it doesn't work properly then you will end up spending twice and that's what I think we'd all like to avoid.

Ian M
30-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Believe it or not I do agree with everything that Martin says.

If I had the money I would have gone for the B40W with a CIS. The thing is I didn't really have an option at the time & in times of desperation you try things that you know you shouldn't.

I just had so many problems with the D120 & it seems there were many more people having very similar problems too. Let's face it if the D120 was such a wonderful printer Epson would still be producing them now.

I just wish the companies who produce printers would produce something just for us doing sublimation as a business. I use a Brother printer for my everyday printing & wish they would make something I could use at home for sublimation. The Brother has to be the best printer I have ever used & the quality of the prints are excellent each & every time.

Wonder whatever happend to the old Alps printers that could print white?

Ian

alanw15
30-08-2010, 10:11 PM
Where do i find the D88 profile and how do i install it?

JSR
31-08-2010, 01:00 AM
Both the S21 and the older D88 seem to be entry-level four-ink CMYK Durabrite systems. I doubt they'd bother reformulating the inks, and that's why the same profile may work on both printers. I wouldn't put it past Epson to just bung the same unit in a new chassis and change the chips so they can charge more for smaller ink cartridges.

Cynical? Me? Surely not! :lol:

For me, though, building my business on the cheapest unit Epson can kick out of their door is not the way I'd want to go. But, if it works, lucky ol' you!


I just wish the companies who produce printers would produce something just for us doing sublimation as a business.
I agree with you on that. Ideally, the company that makes money on the inks should produce a bespoke printer so that we wouldn't be restricted to the revolving door policy of a third party printer manufacturer. Now, who is the company that makes money on the inks? I'm always forgetting... :lol:

Some people might point out that the original patent granted to the desktop sublimation systems that we're all held to was for producing a sublimation ink that could be used in a printer with a thermal printhead. That would have been interesting had it been explored. Some people might mention that, but not me of course. I'm not like that.


I use a Brother printer for my everyday printing & wish they would make something I could use at home for sublimation. The Brother has to be the best printer I have ever used & the quality of the prints are excellent each & every time.
I've recently replaced my Brother AIO. When I got the previous one, I asked the question (on another forum) of why Sawgrass didn't support them as well as Epson. Brother printers also use non-thermal piezo printheads - and, in the case of these AIO, they have a significant advantage over the Epson printers in that the ink cartridges remain stationary (they don't sit on top of the printhead). This advantage would eliminate all the cable-feeding that we have to do with CISS for our Epson printers.

Still, no one ever went into the dye-sublimation business hoping to find any sign of common sense. ;) :lol:

bms
31-08-2010, 08:33 AM
Where do i find the D88 profile and how do i install it?

pm me your email address and what version of photoshop/ corel draw you're using and I'll email the details to you.

bms
31-08-2010, 05:10 PM
D88 profile and instructions all sent to you ;)

alanw15
31-08-2010, 05:17 PM
Thanks, i got the profiles and instructions, many thanks :D

Ian M
31-08-2010, 08:08 PM
Both the S21 and the older D88 seem to be entry-level four-ink CMYK Durabrite systems. I doubt they'd bother reformulating the inks, and that's why the same profile may work on both printers. I wouldn't put it past Epson to just bung the same unit in a new chassis and change the chips so they can charge more for smaller ink cartridges.

From looking at the D88 & S21 I got the impression it was the same machine but in a different case. Entry level they maybe but, it wasn't so long ago most of us were using the D88's as that was machine to use back then.


I've recently replaced my Brother AIO. When I got the previous one, I asked the question (on another forum) of why Sawgrass didn't support them as well as Epson. Brother printers also use non-thermal piezo printheads - and, in the case of these AIO, they have a significant advantage over the Epson printers in that the ink cartridges remain stationary (they don't sit on top of the printhead). This advantage would eliminate all the cable-feeding that we have to do with CISS for our Epson printers.

I had a sneeking suspicion that Brother printers had piezo printheads. When I look at my Brother printer I think this could be as good as the Ricoh printers with a similar set up but without the gel inks. Would be an interesting idea for someone to persue using the Brother if we only had the profiles.

Let's face it whilst one company has the patent on the technology we are always going to have a gun pointing at our heads. Someone I know who is a lawyer said that one day the patent holder might have a challenge in court. The reason for this could be that they use the patent as a tool to keep a monopoly going which some courts frown upon.

Ian :)

daviddeer
05-09-2010, 01:16 PM
Wonder whatever happend to the old Alps printers that could print white?

Rare as hen's teeth and very expensive now. You can sometimes find a md5000 on Ebay. Okidata took them over and produced a few but the initial cost put most people off. They are lots of fun I had two but they went south a couple of years ago. They use print ribbons like the old Roland print&cuts with thermal transfer sublimation tape. Lots of shiny metallic colours. Only the windows 98 driver supports this however.
The printer is still made under a different brand for foiling book covers and can be found here (http://www.muro.co.uk/foilfast-printer-p21e-foil-printer-p108/). They are still considered to be the Rolls-Royce of decal printers for model makers.

draig
05-09-2010, 01:28 PM
I still have my Citizen Printiva version. Whilst it will print wax based ribbons it won't print the resin based ones (the head temp is not high enough for these). Kept it in case the head went on the Roland, and still use it occasionaly for some transfers. This printer did not do sublimation though.

Sharon