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Justin
08-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Sincere apologies for the last couple of days :( Despite a reassurance the host companies servers were once again attacked. I'm taking the neccesary precautions to ensure this doesn't happen again. This may mean a shorter period of scheduled maintenance but if this is the case I'll give as much notice as possible.

Appreciate your patience.

Justin ;)

AJLA
10-09-2010, 10:45 AM
I'm having terrible probs today Justin, I can go and make a cuppa while loading and I have to keep closing the site down.
Missimg my am fix, I don't think it's me (or the pc) must be quite frustrating for you but don't worry we'll be patient as we are all gratefull to you for the forum. :D

Andrew
10-09-2010, 11:09 AM
Yeah, no worries Justin. It is very up and down right now though.

Justin
10-09-2010, 07:26 PM
Not sure why there have been problems today, I'll look into this now.

Justin
17-09-2010, 08:31 PM
OK, it looks like we're back online at long last. I don't think they'll be any data after the 12th so there will be a few posts missing. I apologise for this but there had to be a small sacrifice to get us back online quickly :(

I appreciate everyones patience with this and a big thank you to everyone that has emailed me the last few days with support etc. ;)

We should be stable now but I'm taking no chances and will be changing hosts again shortly. This will involve a much larger investment so I'm going to be looking for regular donations or ideally I'll have to look at memberships/sponsorship, all be it very low. I'd hoped to avoid this but there appears to be no other option as costs start to increase and we need the stable environment we can rely on to move forward.

No rush decisions wil be made and I'll detail proposals on here before pursuing.

This has been a nightmare week and has caused me an awful lot of aggro I could well have done without but I will get us back on track and continue to move forward.

Justin ;)

Justin
17-09-2010, 08:49 PM
There may be a few gallery images missing, I should be able to get these back fingers crossed.

Paul
18-09-2010, 12:14 AM
would you be able to get my last post back in member to member section Justin??

Justin
18-09-2010, 12:30 AM
Hi Paul, it's highly unlikely. I just had a quick go but it didn't work. I can do a full restore but I'm risking losing more data.

I will have another look but it's doubtful. TBH I think it would be quicker for you to re-post, not sure what responses you'd had.

Justin :(

JSR
18-09-2010, 01:03 AM
What's the problem that's causing these outages?

Is it just the host (whoever they are)?

Justin
18-09-2010, 07:05 AM
It was an attack on the hosts servers and they had no choice but to take everything offline

Stitch Up
18-09-2010, 11:57 AM
My site was down for a few weeks and suspended by Google following an attack. I contacted my host, Just Host, they informed me my site had been hacked BUT, amazingly, they removed all the offending scripts and got my site working again - AT NO COST!

Perhaps you need to share the load of supporting the site with others who have the ability/expertise, unfortunately, that's not me!!

Sponsorship is always something I've tried to avoid, however, if it's controlled properly, I suppose it's the only 'fair' way forward. We already have 'advertising' on the site and they do provide good support too. Now the membership has grown to a good level, advertisers shoul be more willing to contribute as it would be worthwhile for them.

In moving to a new hosting package, what do you think would be the annual costs? Would a move resist further attacks?

You're doing a great job Justin and I'm sure I echo the thoughts of many who enjoy this resource by saying thanks for your efforts.

Cheers

John

AdamB
18-09-2010, 12:15 PM
I also use 'Just Host' also - top marks for them as well. I have had a few problems including deleting (by mistake) loads of posts (about 20,000) from a forum which they got back for me in a few hours ................. at no cost!

My opinion but they are very good.

JSR
18-09-2010, 12:39 PM
Regarding "Just Host", Googling brought up this page: http://www.webhostingreviews.com/just-host-reviews.htm in which just 13 people out of 151 would recommend them.

2.79 / 10.0 Uptime & Reliability
3.25 / 10.0 Server & Connection Speed
2.31 / 10.0 Price Value for Money
1.86 / 10.0 Technical Support & Knowledge
1.51 / 10.0 Customer Service & Billing

Average rating: 14.56%

That puts them even worse than 1and1 (of 85 people only 14 would recommend them) -

4.96 / 10.0 Uptime & Reliability
5.60 / 10.0 Server & Connection Speed
3.52 / 10.0 Price Value for Money
3.13 / 10.0 Technical Support & Knowledge
2.45 / 10.0 Customer Service & Billing

Average rating: 27.13%

Stitch Up
18-09-2010, 02:58 PM
I can only speak as I find and for me Just Host have been great, very quick support when I've needed it, zero downtime as far as I'm aware. Being a happy customer I'm unlikely to be looking at host reviews and therefore even less likely to post a positive review. If on the other hand I'd received rubbish service, I'd be more likely to seek out review sites and would more than likely to post a crap report on them.

I know that Justin did have some dealings with Just Host and found their tech ability sadly lacking.

If I go into Tesco and get a grumpy ole sod on the checkout, I'll likely condem Tesco and not the grumpy ole sod. Similarly, when I am contacted by a customer or a potential customer, I try to go out of my way to give them a good service in the hope that when they think of Stitch-Up they have a positive feeling.

I'm often asked to recommend a broadnamd supplier. Based on my experience, I'd recommend TalkTalk simply because I have had excellent service from them. But, TalkTalk have been trashed on Watchdog!

John

JSR
18-09-2010, 03:41 PM
I can only speak as I find and for me Just Host have been great, very quick support when I've needed it, zero downtime as far as I'm aware. Being a happy customer I'm unlikely to be looking at host reviews and therefore even less likely to post a positive review. If on the other hand I'd received rubbish service, I'd be more likely to seek out review sites and would more than likely to post a crap report on them.

I know that Justin did have some dealings with Just Host and found their tech ability sadly lacking.
Despite the reviews, I'm sure JustHost are no worse and no better than any other web-host that offers dirt-cheap or free hosting in that they cram as many people as they can on the same server and have a minimal support team. It's only to be expected, all things considered. There are plenty of expensive hosts that employ the same technique.

That 138/151 people chose to report on poor dealings with the company has to make anyone contemplating a web-host sit up and take notice, even though we are all aware that more people complain than praise. These figures should never be taken in isolation as the only consideration - for example, the dates of the complaints needs to be considered. Old complaints may have been addressed and may be irrelevant. Also, just because there may be a host that has no complaints that doesn't guarantee that they're going to be perfect either. But, still, people considering a new web-host have to start somewhere.


If I go into Tesco and get a grumpy ole sod on the checkout, I'll likely condem Tesco and not the grumpy ole sod.
Well, it was Tesco who hired the grumpy ole sod and put him in a customer-facing position. Ultimately, it is their fault. ;) If I phone up customer support and get some unintelligible person who doesn't know what they're talking about then I don't blame the person, I blame the people who hired them without giving them sufficient training - because the person is invariably hired because they're cheap, not because they're the right person for the job. That's not the individual's fault, it's the company's.

Stitch Up
18-09-2010, 04:04 PM
I chose Tesco because I don't like them. To powerful, destroy farming and change the countryside.

I'd only go into Tesco with a brown paper bag on my head so they can't recognise me :geek:

JSR
18-09-2010, 04:34 PM
I'd only go into Tesco with a brown paper bag on my head so they can't recognise me :geek:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

"There's that guy with the brown paper bag on his head."
"Do you recognise him?"
"Sure, a guy with a brown paper bag on his head came in last month..."
"No, you're thinking of the guy with the white paper bag on his head."
"Oh, yeah..."

John G
18-09-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm with talktalk for phones and also for my webhosting - its always cross your fingers time or seat of the pant stuff - would definately stay clear. Infact barge pole stuff.

Phones have been a constant pain in the arse, especially when you move premises - 2 years down the line - yes 2 years, and i've still got 2 lines on my account which i'm still paying for. Bought a domain name through them when I 1st started and 2 years later, when the domain was ready to renew, they didn't know anything about it - they changed name to opal business. Got free calls all day every day but invoice comes in with charges every month for different calls, all normal calls not mobiles or 0800 blah blah blah. Tried customer service - that didn't work either. Customer service is like russian roulette, different country each time, different person each time - half an hour to each person, then transfered to another guy, or lady guy, and bobs ya uncle, your working days gone in a poxy phone call to get a 20p charge deleted off your bill, and yes, nobody speaks plain english.

Total Joke.

Justin
18-09-2010, 10:56 PM
Choosing a host is incredibly difficult. Everyone has different experiences and many people only review a host online if they want to complain, as is often the case, not many users review with praise.

I'm bearing a few different things in mind, obviosuly storage space/bandwidth etc. We also need to ensure decent support which is where many of these host companies seem to be falling down. 1&1 have always been great for uptime etc. but support has become so painful I'm moving other business away from them after many years.

I emailed a company on Thursday who looked to have some great packages but as yet I've heard nothing. This begs the question, if they can't answer a sales query within a couple of days what would support be like?

Up until now I've been working with typically fairly basic host packages but I'm now looking at a Virtual Server. This should give us far better reliability and minimal downtime. I can also use other useful features, automated backups and so on. It's overkill for what we need right now but as the forum grows it'd preove very useful. The companies I'm looking at have 24/7 online chat support in most cases.

Cost wise this is a dramatic but not unrealistic jump in pricing. From spending a few pounds a month this will rise to anywhere between £25-£45. Sure we can do things cheaper but this hasn't paid up until now. I'll also be keeping one of our existing host packages as a cloned backup to enable a quick redirection if required. This should ensure downtime would be kept to a minimum in the event of an attack etc. probably as little as 30 min's.

With regards to funding, I will need to find a way to get regular money coming in. We have great members on here who have come through in the past when I've needed a quick injection but I'd sooner not rely on putting out my begging bowl once a year.
Regular donations/membership of £1 per member per year would make a vast difference and I don't think anyone could complain at less than 9p per month! This would only work if all members paid though. I'd rather not get into the whole chasing for memberships, removing users for not paying and so on. Other options we've discussed have been advertising/sponsored sections. I know many members are against this as am I to a large degree but it would be a way to bring in much needed revenue without member having to pay. Is this fair though? We have a wealth of knowledge and brilliant technical support on offer so why should it be free? Just playing devils advocate :twisted: I'm not in this to make money...not just yet anyway ;) £10 per annum per member would seem incredibly fair and would give us a brilliant income to push things on but it just isn't needed right now.

As always, appreciate anyones input, suggestions and advice.

Justin

Ian M
18-09-2010, 11:25 PM
I'd pay £10 per year as it would be one hell of a bargain.

Justin you are doing a brilliant job & I think we all appreciate what you do for us all. :D

Your a star in my book. ;)

Ian

jennywren
18-09-2010, 11:58 PM
I understand that the funding is not needed now, but the sooner you start the less stressful it will be for you, advertising/sponsored sections is a way forward, it is a small price to pay to this forum going, and would be a lot easier than trying to collect memberships fees. It is easy to take the moral ground on this when members are getting the benfit of all the advice, suppliers links, but not the stess of of running this forum on a shoestring and sorting thing things out when they go wrong. I have had very good sound advice which has help me to move forwarded and without it I would still just only be doing mugs, and it was on this forum that they talked me through it. So I don't mind advertising or sponsored sections or paying the £10 a year just so I may continue, to be to be honest as I learn and make more money with the knowledge that I learn here, I don't care either way, and if members don't like it they can join another subdye forum, sorry to sound so harsh but nothing in life is free and always comes with some sort of price, money or principles so if we are to contuine we have to have one or the other so lets get behind Justin with ever he wants and let him do it.

AdamB
19-09-2010, 12:14 AM
I'd pay £10 per year as it would be one hell of a bargain.

Justin you are doing a brilliant job & I think we all appreciate what you do for us all. :D

Your a star in my book. ;)

Ian

ditto :-)

bms
19-09-2010, 08:43 AM
I'd add support to this. The forum is a great place to share ideas and problems and I appreciate the potential conflict of interest that I bring to the forum, but from an independant standpoint (if I could have one), then I think a contribution would be entirley reasonable and if this were to be slightly higher for the suppliers who post on here then fine.

jennywren
19-09-2010, 11:24 AM
Martin I'd pay you £10 for all the advice you've given, if there is a small conflict it is more than repaid by the amount of time you spend posting, it should be suppliers that don't add to the forum should be charged, to me that seems fair, if we needed advice about insurances we go to a insurance broker and if you don't like what they offer or price you go some where else, I have often read post and then gone else where to buy. This is called bussiness, but I would not have gained this information if I not read the post and your answers, and this these applies to most members of this forum, and if they have brought of you it is because you offer what they want and at a price they can afford. Members also advertise what they do and have their websites on the forum, and the same as you Martin they share their advice and the suppliers they use, so it sorts of balances out. How ever things are done I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the forum may contuine.

Justin
19-09-2010, 11:46 AM
Many thanks for the feedback and comments folks ;) Echo what's been said here and will be looking at the way forward.

thespringonion
19-09-2010, 02:29 PM
I'm more than happy to cough up £10 a year for all the support from fellow members. Collecting fee/setting up a membership system is definitely a pain, so if the banner advertisement provides enough funding to support the running of the forum I'm happy with that too!

JSR
19-09-2010, 03:44 PM
We have a wealth of knowledge and brilliant technical support on offer so why should it be free? Just playing devils advocate :twisted: I'm not in this to make money...not just yet anyway ;) £10 per annum per member would seem incredibly fair and would give us a brilliant income to push things on but it just isn't needed right now.
I'll play Devil's Advocate for a moment as well, if I can.

You say that £10pa per member is incredibly fair because of all the wealth of knowledge and brilliant technical support on offer.

Don't forget where that knowledge is coming from. It comes from experienced dye-subbers who have developed their experience through trial and error. We've been through all the pitfalls, been out of pocket through trial and error, and are still here.

We then come to this forum, seek out questions from the inexperienced, and try to answer them. Our help benefits the newcomers.

Today's newcomer is tomorrow's competition. You're saying it's "incredibly fair" for experienced people to pay money to help their competition? How is that fair?

Of course it's fair to the inexperienced member because they immediately save money by avoiding the pitfalls caused by trial and error. With questions answered by experienced members, there's no time lost by experimenting and no money lost by ruined substrates. With the knowledge given freely, the newcomers build up their business, make money from the answers they were given, and compete in a tight marketplace against those very people who helped them. £10pa is an absolute bargain for that.

But what about those who provide that knowledge, that experience? They get nothing out of it. They've already been out of pocket to gain the experience and now we're telling them to be out of pocket again in order to help build up their competition.

Is it still "fair"? Do all experienced members here walk around with the word "mug" tattooed on their foreheads or something? In most walks of life, the inexperienced pay the experienced. Only here do we tell the experienced to pay to help the inexperienced. That's barmy.

As I say, this is just playing Devil's Advocate and it's not intended to provoke flame replies (and it's certainly not intended to be an attack on you or your suggestions). I've donated before and will donate again - that isn't the point. The point is that, as someone else has posted, "if you don't want to pay, you can go elsewhere". That's throwing out the baby with the bathwater because it would just result in all the experienced people going elsewhere (where they can offer their advice without being out of pocket) and will leave all the inexperienced sitting here paying their £10pa, not getting their questions answered, and then complaining at you because the membership is no longer value for money. That way lies the death of this forum.

We need to encourage experienced people to bring their knowledge and experience here, not tell them to "pay or go".

I'll probably get yelled at for saying all this because it doesn't sound as good as the repeated meme of "I don't mind paying to be here" but it's only my intent to put words to the other side of the discussion.

AdamB
19-09-2010, 06:00 PM
JSR: I think what you are saying is correct, and I agree about what you are saying as "I" am quite a new member of the forum, who has posted numerous questions on a variety of subjects, all of which have been answered in depth.

Those with 'the knowledge' on this forum know who they are, and I 'always' go out of my way to thank them for their input (as does everyone else) as I believe that manners are everything.

I'm not sure if this would work or not, but maybe Justin could identify members of the forum who are the ones with knowledge and maybe create a seperate group for them (information experts), these members could then (maybe) be excused the subscription fee and in return they help out others (such as myself) with questions and queries (which they do anyway).

Everyone else would then me normal members who would be liable for the annual subscription, until which time that Justin would see that their knowledge has quickly expanded that they are now 'information experts'. They move into the category, and are now excused the annual subscription fee.

It's only an idea and although I do appreciate that this forum would be pretty empty without the knowledge of others, we should 'ALL' (members of the forum) note that Justin needs to decide whatever is best for the forum and indeed 'his pocket' and respect the outcome.

I for one have been a member of many (and still am) forums and I think the community here is OUTSTANDING (and that's a big thank you to everyone).

:-)

JSR
19-09-2010, 06:22 PM
I'm not sure if this would work or not, but maybe Justin could identify members of the forum who are the ones with knowledge and maybe create a seperate group for them (information experts), these members could then (maybe) be excused the subscription fee and in return they help out others (such as myself) with questions and queries (which they do anyway).
I'm not too sure that could work because there's no real way to quantify when you change from being a beginner with no experience to being a person with experience. Does answering one question put you into the "non-paying" group? Two questions? Ten?

I think that'd be too complicated.

I don't know the answer. I just raise the subject for discussion because the last thing we'd want is for the experts to go elsewhere, or for new experts to not get involved because they'd need to pay to answer a question.

AdamB
19-09-2010, 06:31 PM
I'm not too sure that could work because there's no real way to quantify when you change from being a beginner with no experience to being a person with experience. Does answering one question put you into the "non-paying" group? Two questions? Ten?

I think this would be a decision that administration and/or moderators would decide mate. The complication would only be on the part of others thinking that they would qualify ............ again, something that would be made clear by 'those in charge'.

It was just an idea, and I am sure whatever way it goes It'll be worked out for the benefit of all members and the forum itself.

Justin
19-09-2010, 06:57 PM
Interesting comments and I can see all sides of this. The question of more experienced users helping novice users is very interesting. After all, that's partly why we're here. If we don't want to help people to learn and grow within the industry we can take the choice and not reply to the threads. Without new users coming into sublimation the industry may not move forward.

I would add that no matter how long you've been sublimating there's always something new to learn and when problems arise you don't always know the answer. This has been demonstrated time and time again on the forum.

Admitted, all members are competitors in on form or another and it's up to the individual to carve out their own niche in the market.

Charging members according to their experience level, interesting idea but very difficult to maintain. At the end of the day I don't want to persecute any member for not having experience or vice versa.

Advertising etc. would appear to be a good solution, not one I'm particularly happy with though. This would rely on getting a decent number of suppliers/companies onboard that were willing to pay to have a banner on the front page...at least. Suppliers could be given their own sponsored section for new products/offers etc. and members would then have the choise whether to look or not, it wouldn't be rammed down their throats ;)

We're always going to get different ideas and opinions which is good but I won't be able to please all the people all the time....so it's time to find a compromise! Possibly a small membership to give us a basic income, boosted by small advertising?

Thanks for the input thus far, always nice to hear your point of view and I will do mybest to find a fair but efficient solution :D