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IrishPrint
22-03-2017, 03:42 PM
So we just got an order in to do the merchandise for an independent wrestling promotion's upcoming tour of Ireland. We have a bit of an in via a merhcandise shop that we've done done stuff for and luckily we were able to get across the line. Absolutely delighted.

Now the designs they want are just not going to be possible with our existing setup which is sub for white and vinyl for dark - so we need to get into either DTG or printing onto then pressing vinyl.

Can anyone that has had to make this decision before - weigh in and let us know which components made you go the way you did - I assume a lot of you guys have been here before.

I know either option is going to be a substantial outlay but I don't have an issue loaning the business the money to get this equipment asap.

Ideally I'm looking for an idea of initial outlay - ink cost - ease of use - training requirements - software used - maintenance involved.

mr-gobby
22-03-2017, 05:34 PM
Design plays a part as some are not weeding friendly for vinyl. On the cost front for you could sub it out. DTG is probably twice the outlay than say a vinyl print solution like a Roland BN20 and heatpress. Both would take a bit of mastering though if bought new some installation and guidance would be provided. Vinyl is more labour intensive I'd say though I don't have a DTG set up myself.

Earl Smith
22-03-2017, 05:52 PM
I have just come back from an in house trade fair where Forever are displaying their products. I am amazed at how they have progressed and might be worth you looking at for this job. I took some photos which , if you want, I can try and upload tomorrow when I'm back at work. The images and prints I saw were printed with very fine dots, just like a newspaper print.
You will need the Oki white and an ability to rasterize the image. Forever have a rasterizing program for their printer driver but it costs around 400€.
Or they have a one colour foil which you print the image in black and press their "glue" paper onto this and then press this onto the shirt. For this you only need a B&W laser printer. You can print muti colours by layering the prints, just like vinyl.
Maybe this is the solution you are looking for.

Earl Smith
22-03-2017, 06:14 PM
I have just come back from an in house trade fair where Forever are displaying their products. I am amazed at how they have progressed and might be worth you looking at for this job. I took some photos which , if you want, I can try and upload tomorrow when I'm back at work. The images and prints I saw were printed with very fine dots, just like a newspaper print.
You will need the Oki white and an ability to rasterize the image. Forever have a rasterizing program for their printer driver but it costs around 400€.
Or they have a one colour foil which you print the image in black and press their "glue" paper onto this and then press this onto the shirt. For this you only need a B&W laser printer. You can print muti colours by layering the prints, just like vinyl.
Maybe this is the solution you are looking for.

I should also point out that TMT will have very similar papers. Didn't see them at the trade fair but I know the WOW will do the job as well.

ArferMo
22-03-2017, 06:39 PM
The other nice thing about rasterizing the image is that breaking it up into small dots serves two additional benefits....... as the image is already broken up it stops them cracking up so much which has always been the downfall of WoW prints for me. The 2nd is it stops a large image from feeling like you have a plastic bag stuck on your chest as it has now become a mesh in effect.

If and when the penny drops and they scrap or VASTLY reduce the cost of the rasterizing software then I think their sales would vastly increase, as has been said there are other ways of rasterizing the image for free but its too much fuss and time consuming to bother with.

Earl Smith
22-03-2017, 07:11 PM
The other benefit of rasterizing is the cost of toner on the print is reduced by around 40%.

Earl Smith
22-03-2017, 07:22 PM
Sorry, not very good photos but I think you get the idea.

willd
22-03-2017, 08:34 PM
The downfall of the laser papers is the longevity, unless they've improved any?

30 to 40 washes in my book is not long enough for a premium garment print to last...

I can see customers returning garments and muttering about the sale of goods act (in the UK), quite legitimately to my mind.

DyeSubSupplies
22-03-2017, 11:40 PM
Laser her would be your best option a lot more versatile than either vinyl or DTG and certainly a lot cheaper than the latter.
if you want anymore help or advice or a printed sample please feel free to get in touch.
i will put a link to our laser section below.

http://www.dyesublimationsupplies.co.uk/laser-printing


So we just got an order in to do the merchandise for an independent wrestling promotion's upcoming tour of Ireland. We have a bit of an in via a merhcandise shop that we've done done stuff for and luckily we were able to get across the line. Absolutely delighted.

Now the designs they want are just not going to be possible with our existing setup which is sub for white and vinyl for dark - so we need to get into either DTG or printing onto then pressing vinyl.

Can anyone that has had to make this decision before - weigh in and let us know which components made you go the way you did - I assume a lot of you guys have been here before.

I know either option is going to be a substantial outlay but I don't have an issue loaning the business the money to get this equipment asap.

Ideally I'm looking for an idea of initial outlay - ink cost - ease of use - training requirements - software used - maintenance involved.

mr-gobby
23-03-2017, 09:18 AM
There are other less durable alternatives to DTG & vinyl as mentioned, I was demonstrated these at the P&P show recently, look really great though the demonstrator did explain they weren't as durable as other methods https://www.grafityp.co.uk/textile-transfers/digital-print/forever-transfer-papers/

Earl Smith
23-03-2017, 09:50 AM
The downfall of the laser papers is the longevity, unless they've improved any?

30 to 40 washes in my book is not long enough for a premium garment print to last...

I can see customers returning garments and muttering about the sale of goods act (in the UK), quite legitimately to my mind.

They are improving but I dont think they will last for 30 to 40 washes. Neither will DTG. I have a t-shirt with around 20 washes and its still ok with the laser print. 30 to 40, wait and see.
The best is the good old screen print. I have a sweat from about 1997 and the print looks as good as the day it was printed. The sweat is falling apart and only used in the garden but the print is great.

willd
23-03-2017, 11:10 AM
They are improving but I dont think they will last for 30 to 40 washes. Neither will DTG. I have a t-shirt with around 20 washes and its still ok with the laser print. 30 to 40, wait and see.
The best is the good old screen print. I have a sweat from about 1997 and the print looks as good as the day it was printed. The sweat is falling apart and only used in the garden but the print is great.

We have printed leaver's hoodies and t shirts for a few years now, originally using cut vinyl for the rather large and intricate motif containing the leavers' names, which was a bit of a bore, but nothing more.

Until we received a rogue roll of vinyl which was much more flexible than standard, and it appeared that on the final cut of most letters the last corner to be cut wasn't fully cut, as it seemed that the vinyl was pushed away rather than cut.

Since we were on a very tight deadline, we had no option but to persevere, weeding each motif took 40 minutes, and most of them also needed repairs too.

Never again said I, and we moved to a no weed two paper laser system thereafter.

We still have an early t shirt in the family, "printed" with cut vinyl, which we think has probably been washed 150 plus times, and the motif still looks as new.

In all of the discussions that we had with the suppliers of the two part laser paper system before we purchased it, they never raised the issue of print failure, which I find hard to believe.

We've had no complaints at all, but we are presently tracing some people who have purchased the hoodies/shirts to get some feedback, and we have made the decision to go back to cut vinyl...

IrishPrint
11-04-2017, 10:50 PM
So everyone, listen - the information in this thread is absolute gold to a newbie, thank you so much for sharing all this insight.

So we went across to the uk and visited some shops, got some demos, and the real multi-functional value of the Printer Cutter won hands down and we were shopping in the pre-owned market to see what we could pick up.

Then something happened.

We get a call from the same guys that prompted this post in the first place, looking to order 5000 pc of quite a specific t shirt design for a martial arts tour they'll be co promoting at the end of this year.

Now this is where it gets tricky - we have the design, and I'm not going to post it - but I'll post something very very similar in terms of shirt real estate so you catch our dilemma - the design covers, in a continuous and fluid motion, not only the chest but the shoulders and sleeves and rib area in a large spread across the seams.

Now I've taken the order - learned in business a long time ago when the big cash is dangling, you say no problem and get it signed - figure the rest out later. Worst case scenario, we chop right into the profit margin and outsource - but I'm not ready to give up yet.

Just before we part with the money for the Printer Cutter, I'm now reconsidering using the money for a DTG with a large enough box to cover this.

I'm hoping you guys can jump in here and tell me if that sort of design is do-able in a DTG or if it would be screen only - something we're not looking to get involved in doing, so would need to outsource.

Welcome all your thoughts and thankful always.

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4566&stc=1

Earl Smith
12-04-2017, 10:22 AM
Hi. Congrates on the order.
With my limited knowledge of DTG Id say that it is too large a design to print. Unless your looking at a Kornit or maybe the large Brother machines. Mucho money needed.
For that quantity Id say to look at getting a Screen print setup. Much much cheaper. The cost per print would be minimal , cents for each print.
THe real problem with screen print is the space you will need to set it up. You will also need a dark room and a wet room for washing the screens. Dont use your bathroom, the wife will kill you. The printer could be a one arm, one colour setup so you wont need too much space.
Or you could have transfers made. Again the quantity is to your advantage for a good price. The only problem would be the need for a very large heat press.
Good luck. Im sure there are more knowledgable peeps on here who will have ideas too.

Quinsfan
12-04-2017, 10:26 AM
Do they have to be cotton t shirts? How about getting them made as a whole item? Find a manufacturer with a wide format textile printer and get them to make the tshirts. I am sure at that large volume there should be enough wiggle room for you all to make a bit of money.

Stitch Up
12-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Zoti Sports http://www.zotisports.com/ may be an option?

Dalbag123
15-06-2017, 07:14 AM
How did you get on with this job? Did you go dtg or print and cut in the end?

logobear
15-06-2017, 11:11 AM
I would have thought for 5000 off that screen print would be the best way ?

Stitch Up
15-06-2017, 08:47 PM
I would have thought for 5000 off that screen print would be the best way ?

No doubt about that! 5000 on a DTG - impossible.