Visual Sound Waves?

[subbase]

Hi all.

New to this forum and to sublimation printing so sorry if this is a stupid question or has been asked already, but I didn't see any posts about this on the forum so figure I'd ask....I see some people print sound waves of their favorite songs on things like tshirts. Is this illegal being that it is taking a visual sound wave versus steeling the actual audio of the song? Or would one need to include the actual name of the song and artist on the tshirt along with the visual soundwave for it to be legit?

Anyone that could lend some experience, knowledge or advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[webtrekker]

I would imagine it would be illegal if the original sound could be reproduced from the waveform, in much the same way that it is illegal to download the song from the net, even though it exists only as binary 1's and 0's.

The real question is: Without the title of the song or the artistes name, who's to know? :wink:

[subbase]

The real question is: Without the title of the song or the artistes name, who's to know? :wink:

Ha! Good point! didn't even think of that lol

[pisquee]

If you scanned the wave form from a tshirt, or even something nice like Chromaluxe, there is no way you'd have enough data to create anything musical - it would be a horrible noise to playback.
This isn't to say a record label doesn't have the budget to hire an expensive lawyer to try a case, just it's unlikely at the moment any company that is big enough to be worth pursuing is producing this type of product.
This is something I have been thinking on a few weeks back - it could easily be argued that it is violating IP of the owner of the recording/performance, maybe the composer too, but does need someone to be first to try it

[subbase]

If you scanned the wave form from a tshirt, or even something nice like Chromaluxe, there is no way you'd have enough data to create anything musical - it would be a horrible noise to playback.
This isn't to say a record label doesn't have the budget to hire an expensive lawyer to try a case, just it's unlikely at the moment any company that is big enough to be worth pursuing is producing this type of product.
This is something I have been thinking on a few weeks back - it could easily be argued that it is violating IP of the owner of the recording/performance, maybe the composer too, but does need someone to be first to try it

so what you are saying is,don't even think about trying it unless I have the funds to fight it in court? lol

[pisquee]

I would say, don't try it if you're a huge company who would be appealing for a big multinational record company to sue - if you're an small to average company I doubt you'd have a problem. (we print soundwaves!)

[subbase]

hey thanks for the advice pisquee. I actually have never printed anything or have any sublimation equipment yet. I am still in my research phase but will definitely be pursuing this and printing soundwaves is something that I would want to incorporate as part of my business. Just curious, how do you go about it? Do you use music software to download a song that you export into photoshop or something? Also, do you list the name of the song and artist on your designs as well? I guess I would be worried about getting in trouble if I had advertised this service on a website, ebay, or amazon......I've seen others who offer the same kind of service and always wondered if they would get in trouble for something like that......

[PeteO]

I have a friend who recorded the sound of his babies heartbeat from the doppler while his partner was pregnant.

It took a couple of audio solutions to clean up, extract static and resort to a 'pure' recording.

This was then converted to a single waveform to print to an item

Playing the single waveform in an audio application does not produce an output recognisable as the original recording.

Cant imagine many of these posters etc you see can do the same.

I think its a one way thing only, so the creation cant be seen as a duplication, as you cant convert to the original source from the waveform.

[subbase]

I think its a one way thing only, so the creation cant be seen as a duplication, as you cant convert to the original source from the waveform.

hmmm...that is a good point. thanks for your input!

[pisquee]

We tried Audacity (free) and Adobe Audition (not free) and both produced results as good as each other for taking a screen grab into Photoshop for print purposes.

[GoonerGary]

I have all this software for music editing and learning bass tracks. The soundwave would not be copyrighted, but trying to sell a soundwave called "The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows Soundwave T shirt " is infringement.

[subbase]

The soundwave would not be copyrighted, but trying to sell a soundwave called "The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows Soundwave T shirt " is infringement.

Ahh.....so basically having the soundwave without the artist name and song would be ok but including the song and artist on the tshirt would make it illegal. that makes sense, but what about having a soundwave design with a part of a lyric from the song, like the chorus for example? Or just the name of the song? Or only the artist name? Still infringement? I am trying to learn about copyrights and trademarks atm and tbh, it is quite confusing to me lol

[cleo333]

I have a t-shirt with sound wave of my favourite song without the song name and artist. :biggrin: Just got it as the present.
I assume it is not a problem to wear such t-shirt.:redface:

[webtrekker]

Can I just say here that you could put ANY waveform on the shirt, even random white noise, and who would really know any different? You might get one shirt from 10,000 returned as 'not as described' but at least you won't get done for copyright.

There are loads of these shirts for sale on the net and I bet no one checks the authenticity of the waveform they are paying for.

[GoonerGary]

Ahh.....so basically having the soundwave without the artist name and song would be ok but including the song and artist on the tshirt would make it illegal. that makes sense, but what about having a soundwave design with a part of a lyric from the song, like the chorus for example? Or just the name of the song? Or only the artist name? Still infringement? I am trying to learn about copyrights and trademarks atm and tbh, it is quite confusing to me lol

"Lyrics and Music Copyright Lennon and McCartney."

So you can't reproduce those lyrics on a commercial product or trade off the reputation of the band's name as this is also infringement. A sound wave is just a graphic illustration.

@webtrekker As a musician and someone who's done loads of music editing, I'd know my own song as a soundwave. I could recognise the quiet parts, loud parts and the beat if it was isolated enough.

There is a guy who went on to Record Breakers? or something similar and could identify every single piece of classical music just by looking at the grooves on an LP record...now that's talent!

[webtrekker]

@webtrekker As a musician and someone who's done loads of music editing, I'd know my own song as a soundwave. I could recognise the quiet parts, loud parts and the beat if it was isolated enough.

Hi Gary. I'm a guitarist myself and have also done loads of editing, and I get what you mean, providing it was the whole song in the waveform, but I doubt whether anyone could recognise a section of a song, even if it was their own, simply from viewing a printed waveform. Lots of these t-shirts have only part of the waveform displayed, making it very difficult to determine the song.

Just out of curiosity, who can tell me the title, songwriter, or artist from this full-length waveform I've just saved from Audacity? (Free mug for the winner! :wink: Competition closes Sunday 2/4/2017 at midnight.) ...

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4550&stc=1

Good luck!

[GoonerGary]

I was going to say Song 2 by Blur, but the first half in your soundwave is noisier after the first chorus. But it's got to be a song I recognise if I'm going to get my free mug. Can we have a better prize? I've got thousands of mugs here already.

[subbase]

LOL. @Gary and webtrekker.....As a musician + music producer myself, I have also edited tons of waveforms and you both have very good points. I guess if I was marketing to the general public, then what webtrekker is saying is true, I could put white noise on it and then I won't have to worry about the infringement, but if I was marketing to more music savvy people, they may be able to tell the difference, but probably very unlikely though, I would think? I mean, I would definitely loose webtrekker's competition and I stare at waveforms all the time.

If I was marketing to an audience in a very specific music niche such as musicians or music producers and planned on creating waveforms that were very specific, such as a waveform for a sine or square wave or something similar, then I don't know if I would be able to get away with just putting any random waveform on a shirt or whatever as those that I am marketing to would be more educated, right?

Would I be breaking any laws by printing out waveforms of say a sine or square wave? Unlike a song by an artist, those are very generic sounds and wouldn't be copyrighted, correct? Also, if I cannot put the artist name and song title on the shirt, mug, etc. then what would be the appeal? I can't see someone wanting to just buy a substrate with just a random waveform and no title of what it is, right? Or am I completely wrong here?

[webtrekker]

I've seen t's on Redbubble and elsewhere with just a waveform and no text. I've also seen t's with a song waveform and something like 'Daddy's Favourite Song' printed underneath. So there are other ways to tackle this.

@Gary - how about a choice between a mug or an A4 dyesubbed aluminium wall clock? :smile:

[GoonerGary]

I've got a mountain of sub metal and silent German clock parts too. Just put me out of my misery, save me loading up Sound Forge.

[webtrekker]

I've got a mountain of sub metal and silent German clock parts too. Just put me out of my misery, save me loading up Sound Forge.

Ok. Competition closed! No winners! The track was 'Wrecking Ball' by Miley Cyrus. :biggrin: I guess it's not that easy to determine a track from the waveform. I know I wouldn't be able to do it.

[GoonerGary]

Er..who the hell is Miley Cyrus?

[webtrekker]

LOL! :tongue:

[GoonerGary]

.... I guess it's not that easy to determine a track from the waveform. I know I wouldn't be able to do it.

However like I said, if I want Iron Maiden - Phantom of the Opera 'soundwave' on a T shirt and you send me Miley ******* Cirus, all guitarists would know right away that it wasn't the same track. I'd get my band and several million Maiden fans to trash your ebay account. ;)