Is subTHAT available in the UK from anyone?

[Customprintwales]

I've been thinking about doing my own products and using the spray coating for putting on a sublimation coating but stumbled on the subTHAT transfer system.

It seems so much easier than spraying waiting to dry and spraying again. Just heat press a sublimation layer onto your item and then sublimate on that. It looks ideal for wooden wall art type items as it comes in a roll.

Anyone know if the system or something similar can be found from a UK supplier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX_04FyjMMk

[Justin]

Not seen this before, certainly looks interesting. I see they cdo different finishes including white which would be very interesting.

http://php.jdsindustries.com/JDS_SITE/site1.php?SEARCH_TERM=subthat&SITE=SEARCH&D1ID=SEARCH

I've given them a shout to find out more.

[Customprintwales]

It does look interesting and a whole lot simpler than using the sprays. You don't need to worry about drips or waiting for it to dry.

I'd love to find somewhere in the UK to give it a test.

Let me know what response you get, I could be tempted to ship in a bit from the US for a test. Not sure how economical it would be to buy at my requirements for shipping etc.

That said I bought a 100 bookmark size lamination pouches from Amazon in the US and it only cost £4.00 for international shipping and was here in 3 days. I'll have to check if they are stocking on Amazon :)

[GoonerGary]

Is it the same as this polyester adhesive film? Or it it going to transfer the ink onto any surface?

https://www.isub-supplies.co.uk/clear-polyester-with-clear-glue.html

[Customprintwales]

No that looks like it's just a sticker and so in prone to peel off. Because it's a cold glue backing I would imagine over time the edges will start to curl etc. The film you show is more suited for car stickers etc than a permanent bonded polyester coating. I would imagine there would be problems sticking to wood as well.

But it does look as if it has potential if I go into car window stickers etc.

The film I'm look at has heat glue at the back so provides a more permanent bond for the polyester surface and then you sublimate on top.

[theoriginalmadco]

I've been thinking about doing my own products and using the spray coating for putting on a sublimation coating but stumbled on the subTHAT transfer system.

It seems so much easier than spraying waiting to dry and spraying again. Just heat press a sublimation layer onto your item and then sublimate on that. It looks ideal for wooden wall art type items as it comes in a roll.

Anyone know if the system or something similar can be found from a UK supplier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX_04FyjMMkWow sounds interesting

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Justin]

Heard back from them, communication not the best but trying to get some sent over to test. All they seem interested in is dealer sales. We have UK suppliers that may well be interested but they need to get me samples here before we can look at that!

[GoonerGary]

I'm guessing that's the 'Clear Gloss' material Chromaluxe use. I had a dodgy blank which peeled off completely after a being cut. It's just a plastic film afterall.

http://php.jdsindustries.com/JDS_SITE/site1.php?D3ID=1081&D2ID=151&D1ID=2&D1DESC=Sublimation%20Materials%20&%20Supplies&D2DESC=SubTHAT!&D3DESC=Clear%20SubTHAT&ITEM=STGC14X1710S&SITE=ITEMINFO&MENU2=MENU2

[socialgiraffe]

Is it wood you are looking to decorate?

If this is the case then try the RST paper from The Magic Touch. I have seen some really good results using it.

http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/acatalog/RST-Water-Release-Transfer.html

[Justin]

Well, I think I'm at the end of my tether with this company. They wouldn't even let me have prices until I filled in an account form. They set my account up and I logged in to get prices, $7-$13 for 5 sheets etc. OK I though, just get a few sheets of each variation over to test. Nope, you have to buy 5 packs of each. I'm not going to spend what works out to a few hundred pounds just to test myself!

I explained that we have a lot of forum members that could be interested in this and also we have relationships with UK suppliers who might want to take it on....."We only supply in packs" was the response.

Fair enough, we won't test it and we won't review it!

[webtrekker]

Fair enough, we won't test it and we won't review it!

So subTHAT! has now become f***THAT! :biggrin: Fair do's!

[Justin]

Haha, reaches for the LIKE button!

Our paths will cross again I'm sure, always happens, short sightedness. I'd happily buy packs once I'd tested it but who in the right mind would spend that much just to sample??

[Customprintwales]

that's a shame. It looked promising but I would not buy that amount of a new product. I'd only go with the one pack until I knew it worked.

[GoonerGary]

Group buy.

[Justin]

Did wonder about that but any decent company should send/sell sample packs.

[Tubstar]

Maybe if each of us emailed them direct with exactly the same question they would see how many are interested and rethink?

Alex.

[greenroom]

I'd definitely be interested in this and would be happy to go in on a group buy for Justin/someone/all of us to at least test it if there's any way to move this forward......

But I do agree, sending out/selling a few sample sheets should be the way to go by this company!

Jenny

[TBergstedt]

Hello All,

First off, an introduction. My name is Troy Bergstedt, and I'm the Director of Chemical Research at Ikonics Corporation. We are the manufacturer of SubTHAT! films currently being distributed in North America by JDS Industries.

I just found this forum and thread, and felt compelled to join and offer any assistance that I can. SubTHAT! represents our first entry into the dye sublimation market, so I'm hoping that I can contribute a fraction of the information that I anticipate receiving from this group.

We are currently working on establishing distribution channels in the UK (and worldwide), but it will take a bit of time to get all of that set up. In the meantime, I'm told that we are able to offer some substantially discounted pricing on first-time orders of 5-sheet packs for anyone who may be interested in trying it out. Our primary Sales contact for SubTHAT products is currently out of the office at a trade show, but once he returns I can discuss this with him and post his contact info here. At this time, we don't have mixed sample packs prepared - ultimately we'd like our distributor(s) to take that on, as well as to be your primary contact point for support.

Until all of that is in place, I'm here and would be happy to discuss the technical aspects of the SubTHAT products, as well as offer tips, tricks and troubleshooting as needed once some of you start getting samples in your hands.

Regards,
Troy

[Customprintwales]

Nice to see that the manufacturer has replied to the thread even though it doesn't seem to be visible on the forum. Email notifications can be useful sometimes.

With the subTHAT being made by Ikonics it's given me a big boost to confidence in the product and I can not wait for it to come to the UK. Might grab some samples direct from them before that as well when the contact is back from the trade show.

[Justin]

I've temporarily moderated the post until I've spoken with the manufacturer. Unfortunately sometimes companies see the opportunity available to them on the forum and in this case we need to speak beofre I can restore the post.

It's just a shame the US distributor showed no interest in working with us whatsoever.

[GoonerGary]

In contrast, Conde happily sent out sheets of Reveal S film to interested parties. Got the feedback and improved the product.

[Justin]

OK, manufacturer has contacted me and I have approved the post. Troy is available more for technical help so please don't bombard with sales enquiries! :-)

We'll be looking at trialling so I'll try and get some sheets for members to have a go with. I understand that there is a little background training required first so I'll speak to Troy about this.

[Customprintwales]

Full tutorial on how to use the item


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5y8GhGuy5E

[GoonerGary]

Hello All,

First off, an introduction. My name is Troy Bergstedt, and I'm the Director of Chemical Research at Ikonics Corporation. We are the manufacturer of SubTHAT! films currently being distributed in North America by JDS Industries.


Troy

Hi Troy and thanks for popping in. The film looks great, I assumed that trimming would be required, but this only adheres to the product.

In the video you had a brick. Don't think I could sell a brick! But how does the film behave with strongly textured surfaces, such as stippled/ rough sandstone tiles for example?

Does the film hold its flexibility when bent or shaped into a curve?

Really keen to try out a batch, my mind is working overtime thinking about new blanks.

[TBergstedt]

Textured surfaces like brick, stone, unsanded wood, etc. will give different results and effects, depending on the depth of the thickness variation on the surface and "grain size" (for lack of a better term). SubTHAT/SubLam* requires firm contact with the substrate while in the press in order to get good transfer and adhesion.

While I mention flow and leveling of the coating in the press, the film itself is quite thin - about 1 mil/25 microns - so the liquid flow only goes so far. For example, fine-grained sandstone will give good coverage over a flat, relatively smooth surface, but something like a brick with larger pores and voids will only make good contact at the top surfaces - in other words, the peaks will get transfer, but the valleys will not. The red silicone sheet will conform to some degree of irregularity in the surface, but since it is not itself very compressible, you would need the green heat conductive foam pad on top in order to make it conform.

I should also mention that multiple layers of the film can be built up in succession in the event that the first layer doesn't give the desired coverage. The glossy slice of birch that I hold up in the video actually had three layers of SubTHAT built up. The first layer had spots where the coating was absorbed into the endgrain of the wood, the second layer had a couple spots where the grain texture could still be seen, and the third layer ultimately gave a high gloss that looks quite similar to a lacquer finish.

Regarding flexibility, your question prompted me to run down to the shop and put a piece of SubTHAT on aluminum in a vice to test it out. The flexibility is really going to depend on the level of adhesion and the radius of the curvature. The film cures hard, so it will start to craze and lift off if bent too sharply, with initial failure occurring where I had some air bubbles trapped under the film. Where the bend is more gradual (radius of curvature about 4 inches or more) and coverage was uniform, it held up well with no visual defects. I would not recommend using the film on flexible substrates that could be subjected to repeated flexing, as I expect that the film would fracture and/or delaminate sooner or later.

To answer the question before anyone asks it, yes you could transfer SubTHAT to a shirt, but no, you would not like the results. That's a much higher level of complexity that I haven't come up with a solution for yet.

Keep the questions coming. I've tried the film on some strange substrates with various degrees of success, but I'm sure I haven't thought of everything.

*SubTHAT! is the name for the product currently being distributed by JDS in the US. SubLam is a slight variation of the formulation, and may ultimately be what is available outside the US. Stay tuned for more details.

[GoonerGary]

Thanks for the reply. I like the idea of a deep lacquer as I'm assuming this will give a greater depth of print especially with the clear gloss? Do you plan to introduce a thicker film for this purpose rather than pressing three times? I'll do some experimenting with the curvature and let you know the results.

If I'm pressing onto 0.04 inch (1mm) metal, would this blank need to be raised up to avoid the film pressing onto the surrounding platen/ copy page below? Is 1mm too thin to press onto?

[TBergstedt]

I've tried coated this film thicker, but this causes some of the fluid to ooze out past the edges of the carrier sheet before the curing/hardening chemistry kicks in. The squeeze-out around the edges can generally be cleaned up relatively easily by flicking it off with a fingernail, but some substrates can get scuffed up while doing this.

For thin substrates, you have two options. You can raise it up so there's a good drop-off at the edges of the piece (a few mm should be sufficient, but you would need your support to be the same size as the substrate to keep it from flexing in the press), which will give clean edge-to-edge coverage and peel when cooled. Alternatively, you can just set the piece onto a sheet of paper and let the film cure and stick to the paper. Once it's cool, you can rip it off the paper and any flash around the edges of the piece is easily rubbed off.

[Customprintwales]

Where the bend is more gradual (radius of curvature about 4 inches or more) and coverage was uniform, it held up well with no visual defects.

That sounds quite good. One of the things I was thinking of using this film on is copper arthritis and pain relief bangles. If the copper strip can be bent into a bangle without cracking that would be ideal.

Has any tests been done on how the film adheres to polished copper?

thanks
kevin

[GoonerGary]

I would assume it works the same as glass and acrylic as seen in the video. I had previously posted on the forum looking for sublimation copper, so this solves the problem.

[TBergstedt]

I have not tried it on copper, though I have on brass, which requires sandblasting or other means of roughing up the surface to get the film to anchor. I'll pick up some copper to test it on and report back.

[socialgiraffe]

Hi TBerg

Nothing to add to this on a product side of things, all I ask is that whoever chooses the distributor in the UK chooses wisely. There are quite a few trade suppliers in the UK and some of them are not great. They give all the flannel but when it comes to it are utterly useless. Likewise there is at least one SUPPLIER who regularly steals customer designs and art and sells printed items on Amazon, but as he is importing blanks he is undercutting the original artist/printer.

Looks like an interesting product and as soon as I can think of a use in my particular field I will be ordering :-)

[Paul]

I had similar sheets from spain. they were for t-shirts but i cant see the reason why wouldn't that work on hard items like wood.

[TBergstedt]

I ran some quick tests today, and with a little surface prep, it appears that SubTHAT has good transfer and adhesion to both copper and brass (without the sandblasting of the surface that I indicated earlier). The surface prep is the same as for aluminum - wet sanding with 400 or 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper until the surface shines up nicely and water forms a sheet on the metal rather than beading up. This is essentially removing any oils and other contaminants from the surface to expose pristine metal.

The coating on both are susceptible to prolonged immersion in water - after a couple of hours of continuous contact, a tape peel will remove the coating where the tape is adhered. I may have a solution to increase water resistance: SubTHAT Prep Wipes contain an active ingredient that chemically bonds to some surfaces, including some metals. I'm in the process of testing this out and will follow up here with the results.

[Justin]

I'll start a new thread rather than tag on to this, just wanted to let everyone know I finally got around to testing the sheets Troy kindly sent me from America.

Will post the results so far on the new thread...................

[szabs]

Hi Paul, could you tell me, what the product name is and where in Spain you got it from, thanks.