PDA

View Full Version : DSF - Moving Forward - We want to hear from you!



Justin
22-03-2018, 01:03 PM
I'm in the process of taking a look at the forum and how we can improve things for our members. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has any thoughts/suggestions etc. on this.

A quick brainstorm came up with this as a starter:

The forum 'look' - I feel the forum has a good, known look about it and it works fine. That said, it never hurts to have a makeover. I'm looking at a new logo to go alongside the DSF initials, maybe a colour change? Not sure about that.

Does the forum well well? - We don't appear to have any major issues with the day to day performance of the forum having invested more in server speed/space etc. the last couple of years. Would be good to get some feedback on this from members.

Premium Membership - Continue to get great deals for Premium Members with suppliers on products that they already buy, regular discounts, one off offers etc. I have toyed with the idea of creating a voucher booklet where members immediately get for example, £100 vouchers with suppliers, perhaps £10 off any order over a set amount. I appreciate £10 a year is nothing for the benefits of this scheme but I would like to have an immediate payback of some sort like this.
It's been mentioned that this is excellent value, perhaps too good! lol. We could increase the membership cost if more value could be added to it.
Are there any suppliers/products you would like to see introduced into the scheme?
The Premium Membership base is very small but constant, what would make you want to join?


Advertising - It's become more important in recent years to sell advertising space. Don't get me wrong, the intention was always to remain independent with no bias towards any one supplier. I feel we maintain this and get some good discounts in return for the advertising banners. I've tried to keep the banners as non intrusive as possible but obviously advertisers need to have their banners seen. I introduced the right side vertical banners to keep everything away from the main forum areas and again feel this works well.
I don't want to get into a debate over this but again appreciate members input. It was suggested that we do away with advertisers in return for all members paying an annual subscription but I would still like to offer the free membership alongside the premium membership.

I'll add to this thread as ideas/thoughts pop into my head. I'm not looking to open any cans of worms or let myself in for abuse, the idea is to move the forum forward for everyone's benefit so any suggestions will be taken onboard.

If anyone would prefer to send me private messages, my inbox is always open :-)

Many thanks,
Justin
DSF Admin

GoonerGary
22-03-2018, 01:19 PM
It's not nice to talk about supplier problems on an open forum. And suppliers don't want grievances being aired in public. Perhaps a private membership area to discuss these issues without suppliers threatening legal action every time? Perhaps block the suppliers from this private area to avoid anything offensive being read!

A beginners section?

Justin
22-03-2018, 01:26 PM
Thanks for that. Yes you're right, no supplier will want to hear negative comments, especially if they're paying to advertise! I know a lot of the time we're all guilty of only posting reviews/comments when something goes wrong although there have been a few 'well done' posts recently which is good.

I think it would prove difficult to keep suppliers out of such a forum area unless only known members were allowed in. Even then, we'd have to consider any legal implications but I take your comment. If comments are based upon fact and this can be backed up, such comments shouldn't be a problem but as we've found, this can still lead to major issues for the forum. Enough said :-)

Beginners section.....something we've looked at before. I know some members find it annoying when new members come on-board and ask "What printer can I use" "Why don't my Epson inks come out onto T-Shirts" and so on. I looked at having a Sublimation 101 section with all basic topics covered but for the time involved in doing this I'm not sure it would be that beneficial. Maybe we could have a "I'm new and don't know where to post" forum :-)

webtrekker
22-03-2018, 01:49 PM
I'm happy with everything more or less the way it is Justin.

As an example of the way NOT to go, just look at the t-shirt forum! What a mess! :wink:

Customprintwales
22-03-2018, 01:49 PM
I don't know much about vb forum software but wordpress forum and membership plugins tend to offer the option to only display advertisement to paid members or members above a certain level to tell the difference between free member and paid for member.

That tends to be a happy medium. Paid membership is ad free while free membership is supported by ads.

UK Printed Mugs
22-03-2018, 02:07 PM
I think this forum is an incredible tool. I would welcome a "Reviews" section (for Premium Members only) whereby certain members could give honest photographic/video reviews of anything sublimation e.g. hardware/substrates. I think it would be going backwards in free speech not to allow negative reviews as well as positive but all with disclaimers of course. Although all posts would be subject to moderation before going live.

jennywren
22-03-2018, 02:20 PM
Its just a suggestion but is there a way of have a section about about bad suppliers and only members that have so many post or maybe theirs a way technicality that cannot be accessed by the suppliers. I do find it disturbing that I read about suppliers that I use and don't that are criticized and members personal believes are harsh about the quality of the goods supplied. It does feel some members are constantly recommending the same supplier for everything, then complain about other suppliers who ever writes a post. It dose make me think do they work or benefit in some way. This is just my opinion and not for any suppliers that I buy off. I understand that we can offer our experience to newbies and members but in a fair way to all of the suppliers that advertise on this forum and that are on the list supplied by the forum

Justin
22-03-2018, 02:41 PM
I don't know much about vb forum software but wordpress forum and membership plugins tend to offer the option to only display advertisement to paid members or members above a certain level to tell the difference between free member and paid for member.

That tends to be a happy medium. Paid membership is ad free while free membership is supported by ads.

This was suggested a while back. We decided against it on the grounds that it was unfair to supporting suppliers who were paying to get their ads in front of members and then a section were choosing not to see them. We've always avoided allowing ads from companies not related to the trade to keep the junk off.
Obviously it's possible to install ad blocking software so members always have the choice to do this.

If enough members were willing to pay to avoid seeing the ads it would be worth looking at removing all ads in favour of this!

GoonerGary
22-03-2018, 05:26 PM
Thanks for that. Yes you're right, no supplier will want to hear negative comments, especially if they're paying to advertise! I know a lot of the time we're all guilty of only posting reviews/comments when something goes wrong although there have been a few 'well done' posts recently which is good.

I think it would prove difficult to keep suppliers out of such a forum area unless only known members were allowed in.
)

Don't suppliers have 'supplier' underneath their username? Does the forum software allow for types of profiles to enter certain sections of the forum...like the member's area?

logobear
22-03-2018, 05:31 PM
I think the forum is invaluable, - I got a note that my subs expired a few days ago, and will deffo pay up.

The members discounts don't really mean much to me, - normally suppliers I don't use, or there is a catch, or an alternative way to get a similar deal.

I beginners section might be good, OR - a way that a new member has to 'log' 20 hours on the forum before they can ask the same old beginner questions !

Accept conflict between advertisers, and members being able to speak their mind.
I do want to hear bad experiences shared by others.

Happy with colour, speed and navigation.
Don't change too much!

Many thanks. Phil

Justin
22-03-2018, 05:34 PM
Don't suppliers have 'supplier' underneath their username? Does the forum software allow for types of profiles to enter certain sections of the forum...like the member's area?

Yes, in the same way as premium Members can be given access to certain forums. I do think we're looking for a hiding if we hid this away though.

Justin
22-03-2018, 05:36 PM
Many thanks for the feedback Phil. Agreed, we don't need to change that much, just add more content maybe.

Appreciate your comments about the Premium Membership. It's great that members such as yourself recognise the value of the forum and pay the tenner just for that. I'd still like to be giving you something in return. It's a little annoying that suppliers still give you the same discounts they offer but I guess that's the nature.

I've always 'felt' it's important that members know of bad experiences but I guess one supplier I get on with really well will cause issues for another. We know all too well how upset they get when they're caught with their trousers down and can cause us issues.

Maybe there's some middle-way, a confidential points based system to show how reliable they are? Uhm, I'd still get battered! Over to TrustPilot it is, let them deal with the legal issues!

UK Printed Mugs
22-03-2018, 06:27 PM
Hi Justin - what about the old chestnut of moving the "similar threads" to under the posts so you don't have to scroll down everytime to read the first post as well as "similar" being secondary to the content you want to read.

Also, maybe you could make the DSF logo smaller for the same "page scrolling" reason as it takes up a lot of height space.

Also, the scrolling news banner only every talks about signing up to become "premium" so for us premium members can it be removed to tidy things up.

Justin
22-03-2018, 07:16 PM
I can look at moving the similar posts, not sure if possible but I'll look.

Not sure I understand about the DSF logo taking top space?

I don't know how much attention folk take to to the ticker so I'll give that some thought.

pisquee
22-03-2018, 10:22 PM
wiki section could be good way of having FAQs etc as a repository of information.

I do think £10 a year is too cheap - for the discounts and member to member business deals available, I'd pay £10 a month and it would still be worth it, and am sure I'm not the only one, although I suppose we're using the DSF discount code less and less as we are working mostly with suppliers higher up the food chain nowadays, and/or have negotiated better rates with suppliers anyways, but it comes in handy sometimes still.

It would be good to be able to @ tag other members in posts, if it would give them a notification they have been mentioned - not sure if the forum software can do this though.

I'd prefer if I'm paying a subscription to not see the adverts, as it feels like I'm paying twice paying and being advertised to/at

Quinsfan
23-03-2018, 08:27 AM
I tend to view the forum through Tapatalk rather than the website as something has happened since you secured the site as I have to log in every time even though I have checked the remember me box. I have also cleared the password and cache still no help. Saying that we do really need a starters section for the basic questions. Is there a way for the software to read the question and then direct them to the relevant starters section. Something along the lines of the google search that as you start typing it starts filling in the rest of the search. Hope that makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

webtrekker
23-03-2018, 10:39 AM
I tend to view the forum through Tapatalk rather than the website as something has happened since you secured the site as I have to log in every time even though I have checked the remember me box. I have also cleared the password and cache still no help. Saying that we do really need a starters section for the basic questions. Is there a way for the software to read the question and then direct them to the relevant starters section. Something along the lines of the google search that as you start typing it starts filling in the rest of the search. Hope that makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That type of search requires sending each letter, one by one, via php Ajax calls to a search routine on the server that returns relevant results as replies to the Ajax calls. This would involve building a whole new search system as I don't think it would be easy to modify the existing system. I may be wrong though and others may have already done this before.

Earl Smith
23-03-2018, 10:43 AM
I used to look at www.uksignboards.com .
A few years ago they changed the layout/look and now I never go on there. They dont have much to do with t-shirts or embroidery either so I really dont miss poping in to see whats going on.
The layout and look of this forum is , for me, perfect. I know my way around and feel part of the "group". Us Old guys like things the way they are so please dont change it too much.
If its not broken then dont fix it.

Justin
23-03-2018, 10:46 AM
Thanks Earl, I was thrown off that forum many years ago for refusing to enter all sorts of personal details they insisted on! lol.

I agree, if it aint' broke.....I think it's more about content, new ideas than the overall look of the forum. I would like to update the logo but everything runs fine at the moment anyway.

pw66
23-03-2018, 12:12 PM
You are never going to stop new ( or old ) users from asking the 'same old questions', and you shouldn't try to. It is a forum, not a closed group chat room, and nobody has to answer any post they don't want to. To try to restrict such questions will marginalise new users at a time they are trying to become part of the community. You will run the risk of going down the route of the dreadful 'Serif' (software) forum, where there is a small cliique of users with 30k+ posts who answer every post with a disparaging 'search the forum' remark.

The forum should be for the users, not the advertisers. Very few suppliers get such non stop bad press that they would want to leave the forum. If they are getting that level of negative comments there is either a specific or ongoing problem that needs to be highlighted, or a personal issue that needs to be addressed by the forum admin.

On the whole the forum does pretty much as it says on the tin.

Drew
23-03-2018, 01:34 PM
VB as a forum software is old and clunky. Newer software is smoother and more user friendly. However, any change here is a steep learning curve.

I've never paid for membership as never needed to, although the latest addition may make me change this.
I perceive the discount codes etc as being a bit of a PITA. I read somewhere that you had to contact the supplier to get the discount, not a voucher code to put in on the website. They may not all be like this (or none at all), but I read it somewhere......

Do premium members have their own forum section to share and discuss openly and freely? If not, and the only major benefit is discounts with suppliers I don't use, then my £10 can be better spent elsewhere.

Reviews and opinions need to stay. The forum is good at self policing this. There was a thread recently by someone who's heat press hadn't turned up and they posted a 'whoa me' thread about it. Didn't take long for them to be put in their place. Haven't seen them about lately either.

My only quibble with some advertisers is how some jump onto threads with posts like 'we sell something very similar, its the XXX' that don't add anything to the conversation, and everyone just ignores them.

Justin
23-03-2018, 01:40 PM
^pisquee - Just trying a tagging mod, only just installed but wondered if this will do what you have suggested.

harlequeen
23-03-2018, 01:41 PM
I like the forum as it is and found it really useful from day one. That's why I pay for the premium membership, to give a little back. I wouldn't pay £10 per month as pisquee mentioned, as I rarely use the discounts offered by the suppliers. A 'new' section might be good, but when I was new I read everything on the forum (took me ages) just to immerse myself and try to understand as much as I could. I still had some questions, and the members came up trumps with answers.

Even though the software is old, it works well for me and I can usually find what I'm looking for so I would urge not too much change.

Justin
23-03-2018, 01:46 PM
^Drew - Many thanks for your comments. On a day to day basis VB works fine for us and is easily maintained. Again it's a 'if it aint broke' situation I guess. it works well for us at the moment.

Some suppliers do need you to call them up and quote the code which I completely agree is a PITA. I know a couple are looking to solve this.

Yes, Premium Members have a section that remains hidden until membership is applied. We're always looking at bringing in new suppliers for discounts so feel free to PM me the name of your supplier and we can have the conversation. Personally I feel £10 is nothing for the support that members get on here. Most questions are answered and solved very quickly. We don't insist on this being paid, the idea is that members are showing their support and in return we do our best to get them the tenner back as quickly as possible in discounts.

We do allow advertisers to respond to threads but monitor this closely as I agree it can become annoying.

UK Printed Mugs
23-03-2018, 01:52 PM
Justin - as for the logo then I suggest a height of 70px (either resize or just alter html) which helps bring the content of the page up.

pisquee
23-03-2018, 02:01 PM
Tagging worked - I got a notification on email, and the site

Justin
23-03-2018, 02:02 PM
I thought you might be able to # within the comments section, not got this working yet, I used the tag section at the top.

pw66
23-03-2018, 02:09 PM
Why not add a news page, were advertisers can announce any new products without needing to post on the forum, and any industry news can be displayed. Charge advertisers a few pounds for each post, so that they don't over do it, and post the news/interest stories for free. The UK sign forum has something similar on its landing page. https://www.uksignboards.com/

jennywren
23-03-2018, 02:15 PM
Why not add a news page, were advertisers can announce any new products without needing to post on the forum, and any industry news can be displayed. Charge advertisers a few pounds for each post, so that they don't over do it, and post the news/interest stories for free. The UK sign forum has something similar on its landing page. https://www.uksignboards.com/
Thats a good idea.

Justin
23-03-2018, 02:15 PM
Al suppliers have their own section to do this in the Supplier Forum.

socialgiraffe
23-03-2018, 02:28 PM
In general I think it works perfectly. There are a few things that I personally would change.

Members that do not pay for the site sort of bug me. I would make it that you can only see a VERY limited amount without becoming a premium member. £10.00 a year is nothing for the information that I (and many others) have handed over to complete novices. We save them treble that in the blanks that they do not waste in the first week let alone any other benefit. Perhaps limit it to a maximum of 5 posts before they have to pay.

I do not use the discounts (unless I remember to) and they are a nice billy bonus. However the site is not free to run and needs maintaining and some admin that I why I personally pay my £10.

Tagging would be really nice

I do not think it is wise to have a "bad supplier" section, in general I think DSF members are pretty fair. A specific section to do this only invites trouble as you are effectively encouraging the slating. As long as a bad review is based on fact and is not too aggressive then no harm in everyone seeing it. It's also nice for suppliers to have the ability to respond as there are always two sides to every dispute. Positive posts are the way forward :-)

pw66
23-03-2018, 02:31 PM
Al suppliers have their own section to do this in the Supplier Forum.

But it is very obscure and not at all visually attractive. I have just looked at that section for the first time.
I was thinking more of a section similar to the 'Industry News' pages of Images Magazine, or P and P, set up as a home page for the forum. Anything to keep members engaged for a bit longer.

webtrekker
23-03-2018, 03:04 PM
Personally, I think that restricting the main sections of the forum to Premium members only would not be beneficial in the long run. People need to see what they are going to get for their money, so I would suggest making all the main areas (or even the whole forum, barring the introduction sections) 'read only' and posting restricted to paid members only.

Smart Mart
23-03-2018, 05:06 PM
Can you not scale the premium membership? ie the more they pay a yearly sub the more discount they get off suppliers-if you can negotiate with the suppliers a bit more that is?

I don't pay a yearly subscription-i'm not tight, i just wouldn't use the discount enough.I have had a bit of advice from here but i've also given it out a bit,which is a fair exchange-in my eyes anyway!

UK Printed Mugs
23-03-2018, 05:51 PM
I think at the end of the day the "pros" on the forum are premium members (or those that value the content) who use the discount and discuss more supplier positives/negatives. Therefore rather than there being just one premium members thread it should be categorised just like the open categories and then we can make a decision as a premium member where we post.

In terms of more supplier discount I think this is going to be unrealistic. A tiered pricing structure is normal with most suppliers and the 10% is a fair whack based on no minimum order quantity.

Oddly we had our new Xpres account manager, who is very nice and came to our studio this week, contact us today with his new discounted pricing for the items we tend to buy most. AND GUESS WHAT? The "new" rates are more expensive than the 10% discount we already get with the DSF discount!

Now, perhaps we should change the subject to which kind of cursor icon we could change to rather than the default browser pointer...and whether we should add a mouse trail as well... Jokes!

Forgetful8
23-03-2018, 05:52 PM
As a new member, I would like to add my tuppence worth! I am, or have been a memeber of many different forums for a variety of interests.

I know VB is old and clunky, but - it's a solid layout. Easy to follow and gentle of the eye. Some forums have moved to big, bold layouts - and frankly, they're a pain in the arse!

This 'ere forum isn't a show of "ooo...lookee here...how flashy" - but more "yup...come on in and have a neb!"


Thanks for that. Yes you're right, no supplier will want to hear negative comments, especially if they're paying to advertise! I know a lot of the time we're all guilty of only posting reviews/comments when something goes wrong although there have been a few 'well done' posts recently which is good.
To an extent, that's human nature. Apparently, a bad review travels 10x quicker than a positive.

Obviously nobody likes being told their doing badly...I think honest reviews are important, buy do need carefully monitoring. And most definitely give the suppliers a chance to respond. I don't agree with a section hidden away from suppliers.

Might be worth offering a voluntary sign-up to reviews by the suppliers?

Any review system must allow for both positive and negative reviews, otherwise it's very biased system and doesn't reflect the truth.


Beginners section.....something we've looked at before. I know some members find it annoying when new members come on-board and ask "What printer can I use" "Why don't my Epson inks come out onto T-Shirts" and so on. I looked at having a Sublimation 101 section with all basic topics covered but for the time involved in doing this I'm not sure it would be that beneficial. Maybe we could have a "I'm new and don't know where to post" forum :-)
Having a Beginner's Section would be useful - whilst the search function is useful, it can be a bit of a pain, returning 5 year old results. So people comment in those and get told "it's a 5 year old post, create a new thread" or people create a new thread and get told to use the search function.

A volunteer moderator could select certain threads and put them into a beginner friendly section. Another option would be tutorials. I know the Ford Owners Club have a tutorials section with all content created by the members. It takes time to build a good set of tutorials. Also, it's a little different in that here you could face the ussue of not wanting to help the competition (to be fair, I haven't witnessed anything like that here - pretty much everyone os helpful & friendly).



I think this forum is an incredible tool. I would welcome a "Reviews" section (for Premium Members only) whereby certain members could give honest photographic/video reviews of anything sublimation e.g. hardware/substrates. I think it would be going backwards in free speech not to allow negative reviews as well as positive but all with disclaimers of course. Although all posts would be subject to moderation before going live.
An equipment review section would be very useful. Real reviews from real people. Granted, you're always going to get positive and negative reviews for the same kit - Epson vs. Ricoh springs to mind.

UK Printed Mugs
24-03-2018, 11:08 AM
Justin - Would it be possible to move the top advertising banner into the header and then make the logo the same height (90px). Due to the height of the logo in the top header, hot news, the advertising banner and the 'similar threads' then I don't actually get to view the first post without page scrolling down.

I've mocked up how clean the page could look by hopefully just making some simple changes to the template without losing anything important (moving things around if possible).

CURRENTLY - Don't see any post
https://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5104&stc=1

PROPOSED - Cleaner and get to read first post quickly (the important part of the page)
https://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5105&stc=1

Justin
24-03-2018, 05:47 PM
Funnily enough I was looking at that change again last night UK Mugs. I avoided it for a while because I thought it better to keep that area clear for future development or just for a cleaner appearance. I'll look again. I think it was a good bit of coding needed but I might be wrong.

I wouldn't want to shrink the DSF logo that much and that top abetter would need a little more space top and bottom. Maybe a slight change of the logo to make it wider would also help.

robhil
24-03-2018, 06:26 PM
Sorry I am not going to be much help, but this forum has been a mine of very useful information for me and I'm sure many others, Agree with a review page but other than that if it aint broke don't fix it. Thanks to Justin and all moderators.

Also meant to say £10.00 is not alot of money I would pay more if required.

mrs maggot
25-03-2018, 04:34 PM
My tongue is in my cheek as I type. You could have a basic section, and then once people had a good read and look round, they could apply to enter the actual forum by completing a questionnaire, based on the 20 most common question posts from the past year, this would show that people had read the basic section and were ready to move into the forum, think of it as a citizen test. ;)


But on a serious note, can I please stay signed in for longer than it does at the moment, drives me insane always need to sign back in if I leave it for more than about 10mins

Justin
26-03-2018, 05:25 PM
^UK Printed Mugs

I've moved the banners into the header. Still larger than in your mock up but I feel this is a lot cleaner and the forums do show further up the page.

UK Printed Mugs
26-03-2018, 05:27 PM
Looking good.

Brant
06-04-2018, 08:04 PM
Love the forum and would be happy to pay a tenner for a year's membership but whilst it 's free, like most members, will be happy to keep the money in my pocket. For what it's worth my advice would be not to worry about changing fonts and logos, the forum's great "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Happy to pay a tenner if you decide to make membership compulsory as that' cheap at half the price considering all the good advice available. Keep up the good work!

MugPrint
14-06-2018, 05:15 PM
To be honest what i have noticed the forum lacks of an area where business owners can offer there products. For example 36 custom printed mugs with free shipping included. Premium members should be able to do this without having there posts deleted by the admin.

Here is another example to solve any issues that this might bring to the table. Each business owner could specialise in one product that they sell. This way nobody is under cutting the other seller.

It's a starting point but i am sure it could be fine tuned to benefit all premium business owners on the forum.

Justin
14-06-2018, 05:50 PM
We have a section where members can request from other members, member to member offers.

MugPrint
14-06-2018, 06:33 PM
So can i offer my products on there for example ?

We have a section where members can request from other members, member to member offers.

UK Printed Mugs
14-06-2018, 09:56 PM
This is a forum for discussions be it problem solving, sharing and reviews. Justin is right (obviously being the boss!) that if you are needing something then the member to member offers is the place to post. I certainly don’t see this forum as a place to sell mug printing services as everyone on here probably prints mugs but more to talk with those producers for issue resolutions or tip giving.

MugPrint
14-06-2018, 10:16 PM
Nice bit of advertising there UK Printed Mugs :cool:

Fletcher
15-06-2018, 01:28 PM
Hi, The forum is great as it is. I look on it every now and again. Its good when you have a problem or just need advice.
The reason I've not paid to be a member is I don't know what and where I get discounts. I only buy my stock from a couple of suppliers and I get good deals as it is. So I doubt there would be any benefit to me paying it. Having say that I would pay if required as the forum is handy and its a small fee to pay.

Thanks Fletch

UK Printed Mugs
15-06-2018, 01:40 PM
I know a lot of members on here pay the small annual £10 as a gesture of goodwill to Justin who maintains and pays hosting for the forum rather than needing discounts from suppliers :-)

logobear
16-06-2018, 07:49 PM
i pay my £10 coz the forum has saved many many times that amount to logobear.
i have never used the member discount.
Maybe its just about giving token financial credit when i get real personal value.
Cummon - just pay your ten quid and feel happy about yourself!

Tricia
17-06-2018, 12:06 AM
I like the forum as it is. Not being so young anymore lol I would hate it to change to some all singing all dancing type of forum where I'd never find my way around.


I always thought that it was us Scots who were tight fisted but reading through the thread, apparently not. I pay for premium membership simply for the information I get from the forum. I don't understand those that say they've never needed to pay because they haven't needed the discounts. It's not free to have a forum, there are costs and time involved. I've very rarely used a discount but I'm happy to pay the paltry sum of £10 per annum simply for all the information here.