The Power of Ebay

[Stitch Up]

I'd never really used eBay to sell our products but at the begining of this Grand Prix season we designed some patterns and stitched out a shirt. I purchased a peice of software called Listing Factory (assists in creating attractive ads) and on the thursday before one of the races we posed our first advert.

By the Sunday of the Grand Prix, we'd sold 56 shirts!!! The orders were coming in thick and fast and to be honest, we were getting a bit scared as we'd not anticipated this. Keeping records was so important so we could ensure the right shirts went to the right people.

This was a good seller

Front
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Printing%20and%20Dye%20Sub/Shirts%20etc/Sport/BritishGrandPrixLadies.jpg

Back
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Printing%20and%20Dye%20Sub/Shirts%20etc/Sport/BritishGP2009Jenson.jpg

BEWARE: Ebay & Paypal fees are a killer and you must factor them into your costings.

Anyone else?

John

[Justin]

I used to use eBay as my main selling arena. Sales were ok but then when the fees went up I pulled back from it a little. I've sold a few larger items recently and between eBay and PayPal they took a huge whack of the selling price.

I have some ready made transfers that I imported from the US at a silly price. Very simple single colour designs but look nice. They were selling on eBay at £5.99+postage. A decent but not huge profit on each shirt. The idea was to sell large numbers.

I think selling on eBay could still be profitable but it takes up so much time. You have to be very organised and be available to answer questions. Someone always wants a size or colour that you don't do! Listing software is a must. I used to use Shooting Star to keep on top of things but it really is a full-time job!

Your designs are great, can I ask how much they sold for? How is the reverse printed?

Justin :-)

[Stitch Up]

Your designs are great, can I ask how much they sold for? How is the reverse printed?

Justin :-)
This is where the Gerber Edge FX earns its money - it hasn't yet!!!

Print a picture to vinyl and then cut out the design, quite simple really. I can't remember how much they sold for, I'll have to look it up and post back.

That listing got pulled by Ebay following a complaint from BrawnGP.

Here's a better picture of the front showing the silver foil used in the design

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/datasafe/Printing%20and%20Dye%20Sub/Shirts%20etc/Sport/BritishGP2009FrontDesign.jpg

John

[Justin]

Complaint from BrawnGP...cool ;-) I had a cease and desist order from Zamboni in Canada, great talking points. I did wonder about that when I saw your designs, lol.

Where I used to work we had a 60" HP printer. I used that for printing onto Dorotape vinyl for a similar result, fantastic stuff. My 'boss' was alwyas on about getting an FX though. I have access to a Versacamm now so may have a go with this, I'm sure it can do it.

Justin :-)

[JSR]

Great design. I've been a bit of a Jenson fan for ages. Glad he's finally got his first WDC!

I did wonder about the copyright issues you'd have with that design. I'm picturing a little man in an office at BrawnGP with Ross Brawn standing over his shoulder saying "search for the word 'Jenson'..! Now search for 'Rubens'..." :lol:

Saying that, we've seen images of Hamilton browsing the web during the weekend. Maybe Jenson does the same? "Naah, the car's fine, I'm checking for any t-shirts with my name on them on ebay!"

[Stitch Up]

But is it against copyright to use a name like Jenson? I know copyright is a very complicated subject but when the ad was pulled, I wasn't told specifically why!

[JSR]

But is it against copyright to use a name like Jenson? I know copyright is a very complicated subject but when the ad was pulled, I wasn't told specifically why!
I'm not a legal expert by any means, but this is my thinking -

It wouldn't be illegal to use the name "Jenson" (although BrawnGP might argue that, as it's in the context of F1 racing, it's fairly obvious who you're talking about), but it's more likely that the issue is with the design.

In the lettering of "Jenson" you have the BrawnGP car and the 'Virgin' logo. Both BrawnGP and Virgin would be concerned that your design is using their trademarks and/or identifying marks that could suggest to the customer that the t-shirts are endorsed by both BrawnGP and Virgin.

In legal terms, it's for the owner of a trademark to decide where and how their logos, trademarks, identifiable marks should be used. The reason for this is because the use of such identifiable marks on products that the owner doesn't want them on would diminish the brand.

Even if BrawnGP hadn't waved the heavy stick, I would still expect that you'd get a call from Virgin. I wouldn't be surprised if the owners of Silverstone didn't have a quiet word either.

At the end of the day, companies like BrawnGP have their own merchandising outlets (such as http://www.grandprixproducts.com/files/prods.asp?c=109&d=27). While I'm sure they wouldn't worry if you mocked-up a t-shirt for yourself to wear on race day (let's face it, I'll bet none of those "Jenson" flags we see waving are proper ones!), it's a completely different thing to put them into production without first having a license to do so.

In many ways, I'm rather relieved that BrawnGP had a quiet word with eBay and had the listing removed. There are many callous entities out there who'd throw the legal bods at you at the first step, or send demands for £xxxx - which is not something you'd want to happen when all you're really doing, when it comes down to it, is celebrating your support of a fine racing driver and a marvellous F1 team.

[Karen.]

We use ebay when we want an increase in business. Generally if you are careful and don't get too greedy with sales on there then you can front the fees, run for a month or two, get your name out there and pick up lots of repeat customers and business by word of mouth. When you see the sales rolling in though it is easy to keep on listing until you break it down and realise that the fees are clocking up.

[gorgall]

If you have a shop on ebay then the fees are not that bad, each listing only costs me 5p.

[AJLA]

What is your shop gorgall, I have no interest in setting one up but i'd like to have a peek if I may

[JSR]

I've just been looking at ebay shops.

I didn't realise it was a monthly payment subscription - either £14.99, £49.99, or a whopping £349.99 per month!

The 5p listing fee is if you're on the £49.99 per month subscription, but you can get a 1p listing fee - if you pay £349.99 per month. Otherwise, it's 20p to list.

The Final Value fee when the item sells is 9.9%. And, of course, there's your PayPal fee that needs to be taken into account as well.

So, ebay take money when you list, they take money when you sell, they take money when you receive payment, and they take a monthly fee as well. When exactly does the seller, y'know, the person who actually does all the work, make any money out of this?

Example: Using an ebay shop to sell ten items costing £10 each:

10 items @ £10

Listing fee = £2 (10x 20p)
Final Value fee = £9.90 (10x 9.9%)
PayPal fees = £5.40 (10x 3.4%+20p)
Monthly fee = £14.99

Total cost = £32.29
Total sales = £100 (10x £10)
What you end up with = £67.71
ebay percentage = ~33%

So, ebay end up with a third of your money - and that's before you think of things like your manufacturing costs.

Blimey! http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif Someone tell me I've done my sums wrong, please!

[AJLA]

Looks absolutely crazy. I do remember having looked into it previously thinking it seemed quite expensive.
No the direction I need to go in now mind. They really do eat into your profit margins don't they?

[Paul]

thats why I caceled my subscription :(
try sell mugs for £5 :) where is the profit gone??? :P

[GoldRapt]

thats why I caceled my subscription :(
try sell mugs for £5 :) where is the profit gone??? :P

What alternative have you found please Paul?

[Paul]

non :( but i decided to not do sublimation for business... not no wany way....
as I said in other post my other hobby is a photography so i want to join this two and start some business then.
Iam still on ebay but with mug templates. fees a killer!

[jennywren]

I have looking at ebay but having seen the costing you would have to turn over quite a bit to make a living or even to add to it, a friend of mine has been trying for ages to get me to do one, but having read what I have here its a NO. I had a gut feeling but knew very little, she always said she made loads and it all had to with listing, I never understood I'm straight retail, but I do know she on the internet day and night and lives on feed back, which is no good for me I make mistakes sometimes and therefore feed back would some be bad, at least when I make a mistake at the shop I can grovel and offer discount or something in return and if they don't I would only lose (sadly) one customer and its not there for all to see. I know for my friend it works but it looks not for me.

[John G]

You might think ebay fees are steep but if you run a business with premises you'll find ebay fees aren't as bad as you think. :shock:

[Karen.]

I agree John, although the problem with ebay is a mixture of the fees being high and the fact that people xpect the prices to be very low.
I would love nothing more than to have premises at the moment.

[Flash]

You might think ebay fees are steep but if you run a business with premises you'll find ebay fees aren't as bad as you think. :shock:
Correct John http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png I pay a nominal rent on our shop. Now that is just the start, the pile of bills that then start coming through the letterbox is nothing short of phenomenal :(

1) Business Rates
2) Insurance
3) Electric
4) Water
5) Telephone
6) Broadband

Shall I go on :?:
Conclusion And this is free advice to all. Ebay is cheap! If you use Ebay well you can drive traffic to your own website where the fees are much less ;)

Phil

[John G]

[/quote]1) Business Rates
2) Insurance
3) Electric
4) Water
5) Telephone
6) Broadband
[quote]

http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_pale.gif Tell me about it - its even worse when you have very little/no work on - the bills still need paying

[Kaz]

Ebay final vlaue fees for business sellers are 8.75%, slightly better than the 9.9/10% for private sellers, which let's face it, any of us on here are not a private seller.

Listing fees for a buy it now are 40p without a shop, per listing and 20p with a shop, and as has been said, shop fees are minimum of £14.99 per month, realistically you need to list a minimum of 75 items per month to make it worthwhile, anything less than 75 per month is not worth it.

You can list with what is called a multi variation listing, which is only available to shops, but that lets you list the same item in different sizes/colours for the one listing fee.

Paypal fees vary, you can get a micropayments account for low value sales, from memory, it is those under £10, can't remember the fees on that.

If you have a turnover of more than £1500 per month going through paypal, you can apply for merchant rates, this link provides more info on it

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/websc ... ut-outside (https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_fees-rate-about-outside)

[John G]

The final value fee % mentioned by Kaz above doesn't include tax @ 15% - when worked out it comes to more like 9.8 % of the final selling amount.

Cheers John

[Kaz]

Sorry to contradict you John, but it does


The VAT tax is added to the "net" price of the provided eBay service, that is, the basic price of the service. The total price for the services (net + VAT) is known as the "gross" price or amount

Taken from here

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/account/vat-ov.html

[John G]

Hi Kaz, I have an ebay shop and I sell low value goods for 99p "Buy It Now" - the final value fee is 10p which is roughly 9.8%.

So it might be 8.75% of the final value but your ebay invoice/statement adds the 15% tax automatically - or am I doing something wrong.

Cheers John

[Kaz]

The 15% tax is included in the FVF price.

Are you resgistered as a business on ebay John?

The reduced rate only applies to businesses, and you get further discounts if you're a power/top rated seller.

[John G]

Hi Kaz, I'm a registered business seller with an ebay shop and also a power seller - I haven't registered my vat number with ebay so this might be why, didn't know you had too! :oops:

Will look into this tomorrow when i get back to work and register if its going to save me a bit cash - if i do this does it effect the way I input my invoices in quickbooks or is the vat just not charged anymore by ebay

[Kaz]

All invoices from ebay are inclusive of VAT, and you can claim it back if you're VAT registered.

Not sure about quickbooks as I don't use that, just getting started, so not to say I won't use it in the future

[John G]

Right, just registered my vat number with ebay and now I think that all ebay invoices for fees etc will be vat exempt. So no change on quickbooks :)

Thanks for pointing this out Kaz.
Cheers John