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Flash
02-12-2009, 09:41 PM
As you maybe aware I have been doing a little research into decorating mugs lately ;)
During this process I have found that there are other methods of decorating a mug. I am aware that this is a Dye-Sublimation Forum and this thread a little contentious http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif
What methods have you tried in the past? What are the Pro's & Con's of each method?

Phil

GoldRapt
02-12-2009, 11:01 PM
CAn you state what other methods please mate?

Justin
02-12-2009, 11:14 PM
Transfers and screen print spring to mind. Screen printing is great if you have a large number to get done, very sharp image, often used for single colour due to low costs. Transfers are also excellent, I got samples from a company a while back and they were first class.

Justin :-)

Flash
02-12-2009, 11:25 PM
CAn you state what other methods please mate?
Certainly, the two other methods which spring to mind are:

1) Water-Slide Transfers Using Magic Touch or Lasertran Paper:http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/transfer/dct.htm
2) Colour Laser Copier/Printer Transfers using Magic Touch Paper:http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/transfer/cpm.htm

I believe mugs can also be directly Screen Printed too.

Has anyone tried other methods of printing mugs?

Phil

castlegategiftcreations
03-12-2009, 12:14 AM
we have the magic touch water transfer paper and use this for plates/candles etc but I wouldn't want to use them on a mug.

if you do sublimation and get good results then personally i would stick with subli. At least the image won't come off.

JSR
03-12-2009, 12:25 AM
I tried water slide decals in the early days (not magic touch). Print quality is, as you'd expect, quite superb but they're tricky to put onto the mug and its questionable how long they'd last. Apparently you can spray them and/or bake them for durability (I tried spraying one without much success). Ultimately, it may work out cheaper to do one or two because there's no set-up cost but it's wayyy too fiddly to consider it professionally.

I also tried some Laser Copier paper using proper paper and my standard colour laser printers (tried both coated and non-coated mugs). Neither was very successful.

I did have some success doing a mousemat using the Magic Touch colour laser paper. Pressing time is next to nothing and you need to be careful how you peel, but it does work. Doesn't seem to be as durable as dye-sub, though, because the ink doesn't permeate the fibres. It's also no cheaper than dye-sub because the paper is so expensive.

There's supposed to be a way to use dye-sub toner in colour laser printers (with an option for white) - but you need to buy the whole set-up (and I've only heard enthusiastic talk about it in the US) which makes the set-up cost pretty expensive. I did think that, by now, colour laser dye-sub would be more popular than it is - because it'd get us out from under Sawgrass' thumb and would be a lot cheaper in the long-run.

NIGELG
03-12-2009, 03:16 AM
There is a process that involves a laser printer where the toner cartridges are filled with fine glaze particles, you send the image to printer as normal on to a water-slide decal, place this on the item then kiln fire.
This gives a permanent dishwasher and UV safe finish, a great idea if you want to do a large quantity or put an image on something that isn't flat, the company is up north and are very friendly and helpful.

John G
03-12-2009, 10:20 AM
Seems like overcomplicating things - mug printing with sublimation inks is way easier and probably cheaper than any other method.

To screen print you'd need equipment and it cannot be do on a flat bed hand bench and you can only print in high numbers. Then you'd need a kiln to fire the mugs. Same goes with the laser method - an expensive laser printer that can only print ceramics and a kiln. For speed and workshop space I would only consider sublimation printing.

Cheers John

Flash
03-12-2009, 10:27 AM
I have a friend, gained on another Forum who uses the 'Laser Toner' method and claims to be getting a very good and commercially saleable result. Below is a reply to an enquiry I recently sent him:

"I am using CPM 6.1 from magic at £55 per box of 100. and transferwear cL from print-it at 55Euro a box. The differences are that there is no vat on the irish stuff (paper is vat free in ireland) but it is letter size sheets as opposed to magic cl which is £63 inc Vat and is A4.
When i got the stuff from ireland last year the exchange rate was good so it was quite a bit cheaper.
The mugs i have used are magic touch "coated mugs" which came with the mug machine, Xpress uncoated mugs(which are the cheapest i can find online, and of course Asda smartprice stoneware mugs which are £1 for a box of 4.
All of them work great but i have noticed that the xpres uncoated are fractionally smaller in diameter.

I find that I can get 3 prints from a sheet of paper so as you can see, using asda mugs its very cheap for me to produce one, about 75p and i have no trouble selling them at £5.
I get mug boxes from xpres at £17-50 + vat from xpres. These are made from thin card similar to cereal boxes, or the boxes from Magic are £18 + Vat and are heavier corrigated card which are better for posting. Price is per 100.

It takes a bit of experimentation to get it right, when I started about 1 in 7 mugs went wrong either because the print didnt transfer properly or the asda mug cracked but now i am managing to get by at about 1 in 20. One thing I have decided is that i am not doing them out on the market in cold weather, the mugs just don't reach the right temp.

What are you intending to do? mugs as you order in your shop or bulk for buisness gifts? The latter is where I am aiming eventually.

Let me know your address and i'll send you an asda mug if you send me one of your fab plastisol transfers( i'm curious to see what they are like)"

On the other hand I have another friend who is local to me who claims that the print on a 'Laser Printed' mug scratches off!

I did order some water-slide Laser Transfer Paper which should arrive today so I will give this method a crack. Apparently Laser Toner is 'waterproof' so does not need protecting like Inkjet Water-Slide Transfer Paper. Also I have read that if you 'bake' the mug after applying the Water-Slide Transfer it makes the print a whole lot more durable. We will see.

Phil

Flash
03-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Seems like overcomplicating things - mug printing with sublimation inks is way easier and probably cheaper than any other method.

To screen print you'd need equipment and it cannot be do on a flat bed hand bench and you can only print in high numbers. Then you'd need a kiln to fire the mugs. Same goes with the laser method - an expensive laser printer that can only print ceramics and a kiln. For speed and workshop space I would only consider sublimation printing.

Cheers John
Hi John,
If you read my above post i'm not sure if dye-sublimation is the cheapest method! My mate is producing a mug for 75 pence using his method, you cannot even buy a sub mug for that!
You can purchase a very good quality Laser Printer for the price of an Epson 1400 or R1900 and I think you may also find that toner is cheaper than Sublimation Ink hence your ongoing costs will also be lower.
Food for thought!

Phil

John G
03-12-2009, 10:44 AM
Couple of questions:
Does he have a kiln to fire the mugs after printing
Do laser mugs scratch off
How much is this specialist toner - basic laser toner is about £80 per colour
Why does he have a spoil rate of 1 in 20

Cheers John

Flash
03-12-2009, 11:39 AM
Does he have a kiln to fire the mugs after printing
I believe he now uses the Magic Touch Mug Machine:http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/hardware/mugpress.htm But before he got this he used a conventional oven and Mug Wraps.

Do laser mugs scratch off
You tell me! He is sending me a sample so I may attack it :evil:

How much is this specialist toner - basic laser toner is about £80 per colour
I don't believe he uses specialist Toner he runs an Oki with standard toners.

Why does he have a spoil rate of 1 in 20
Because he is not very good?:lol: But he is getting better he was killing 1 in 7 8)

Phil

Flash
03-12-2009, 11:46 AM
basic laser toner is about £80 per colour
John,
Where did you get this number from? Toners for my Xerox Phaser 6110 are £12.50 per colour if you get 'em from the right place!

Phil

John G
03-12-2009, 11:55 AM
Hi Phil,
I've looked into it a bit more now. Its conventional oven or press, standard laser toner and normal mugs, its the paper that's special - and it wants to be @ £55 per 100 sheets. :shock:

I've read the pdf on magic touch website and I think it differs from sublimation - the print sits on the surface of the mug and I think this is where the problem lies regarding scratching off. Also the print is matt so to get a nice shine on the mugs you have to heat it a second time without the wrap on.

It does sound like a good idea, i've got 3 laser printers but after trying sublimation printing I wouldn't go done that route.

Interesting thread though :D

John G
03-12-2009, 11:59 AM
At 12.50 per colour, for laser toner, it won't be genuine - I never ever use third party toner and if your printing mugs I doubt whether the compatible inks would be any good.

Minolta laser 2300 - internet best price around £40 - £50 mark + del + vat
PC world/staples etc £85.00 - £90.

Cheers John

Flash
03-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Interesting thread though :D
That's why I started it John ;)
As my mother has said 'There's always more than one way to skin a cat!'

Phil

NIGELG
03-12-2009, 12:54 PM
Seems like overcomplicating things - mug printing with sublimation inks is way easier and probably cheaper than any other method.

To screen print you'd need equipment and it cannot be do on a flat bed hand bench and you can only print in high numbers. Then you'd need a kiln to fire the mugs. Same goes with the laser method - an expensive laser printer that can only print ceramics and a kiln. For speed and workshop space I would only consider sublimation printing.

Cheers John
Hi john, i wouldn't use this as an alternative to sublimation as it cant really be beat.
Also this method is not done by yourself unless you purchase the equipment as the item has to be kilned to fix it permanently, so it is done by a company for you and very cost effective. I used them for for a wedding once where 24 large square vases with the bride and grooms photo and date had to be printed on , obviously there isn't a coated vase on the market and a press bit enough but the company produced the vase and they were fantastic.
This is a great method if you want to add something like the large photo plates where the guest sign around the edge with a message, they will produce the photo plate as a one of you add to that a porcelain pen to write the message a gift box and all the client does is bake the plate in the oven and the messages are fixed.

you can purchase the equipment but your looking at £5000 for and A3 laser printer and cartridges and a kiln around a £1500 but you can then glaze any shape object that is ceramic.

cheers NigelG

John G
03-12-2009, 01:14 PM
Cheers Nigel

Flash
03-12-2009, 07:04 PM
I think there maybe some confusion entering this thread regarding the 'Laser Toner' method of decorating mugs :!:
John, you have read the .pdf on the Magic Touch website concerning this method & I don't think kilns are mentioned. Here is a link for your reference:http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/download/instrucs/ceramicmugs.pdf
Obviously in this link they use their (expensive!) mug machine but I believe all you need is HEAT. This could be a mug press, mini-oven or conventional home oven.
If you were to use a mug press you would not require mug wraps/clamps with a conventional oven you would.
Yes you do need to use their CPM 6.1 Paper @ £55.00 for 100 sheets but my mate claims to get 3 mugs from 1 sheet, so 300 mugs for £55.00.
Other than this you need a colour laser printer with non-oil based toners available these days for £100 which is a lot cheaper than an inkjet printer with a Dye Sumlimation set-up!
Ongoing costs, well is toner cheaper than Dye Sublimation Ink. This one is still up for debate!
Also to take into consideration, there are no head cleans with a laser printer http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png
I'm sure that in time someone will stumble upon this thread who has actually tried this method, his opinion will be valuable http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_king.png
In the meantime, is/has anyone tried other methods of decorating a mug?

Phil

Flash
03-12-2009, 07:10 PM
You can purchase the equipment but your looking at £5000 for and A3 laser printer
WHAT :shock: I don't think so! Here's one:http://www.printerbase.co.uk/acatalog/oki-c810.php

I will have your change out of £5K, that's Christmas sorted :D
And why A3 for mugs surely A4 will do, and they are a lot cheaper;)

Phil

NIGELG
03-12-2009, 07:25 PM
You can purchase the equipment but your looking at £5000 for and A3 laser printer
WHAT :shock: I don't think so! Here's one:http://www.printerbase.co.uk/acatalog/oki-c810.php

I will have your change out of £5K, that's Christmas sorted :D
And why A3 for mugs surely A4 will do, and they are a lot cheaper;)

Phil
Hi Phil your missing the point here, :roll: the laser printer uses powdered ceramic glaze as a toner not your standard toner powders, therefore when you create your photo image it is a glaze that fires into the ceramic surface not onto it like the MAGIC TOUCH which falls of if you put it on a hot cycle in a dishwasher with a powerball tablet http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif

I have the oki Printer and its fantastic a bit of a space stealer but fantastic quality. :lol:

Enjoy

Flash
03-12-2009, 08:25 PM
not onto it like the MAGIC TOUCH which falls of if you put it on a hot cycle in a dishwasher with a powerball tablet http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif
Is this hearsay or have you tried the Magic Touch CPM 6.1 papers? Which use 'standard' non-oil based toners and a 'standard' Laser Printer.
I think it important on any Forum that facts are quoted and not hearsay :!:
All I can say is that my friend is selling mugs in and around Southampton using the Magic Touch method and has been for some while, surely one of his customers has put one of his mugs in a dishwasher! Knowing my friend i'm sure he is serious enough about his business that he would have tested his product.

Phil

Stitch Up
03-12-2009, 08:38 PM
We've done stacks of laser toner mug printing using the Magic Touch process. I can honestly say that the dye-sub method produce far better quality mugs - there's a huge difference.

Carl Newbury at The Magic Touch always told us the dye-sub method produced far better quality mugs.

Dye-Sub mugs every time.

Simples :)

Flash
03-12-2009, 09:00 PM
We've done stacks of laser toner mug printing using the Magic Touch process. I can honestly say that the dye-sub method produce far better quality mugs - there's a huge difference.

Carl Newbury at The Magic Touch always told us the dye-sub method produced far better quality mugs.

Dye-Sub mugs every time.

Simples :)

Ahh! At last, someone speaking from experience! Thank you Stich Up.
Now I can start asking some questions about my Dye-Sublimation set up ;)
Any other methods I should consider :D

Phil

GoldRapt
03-12-2009, 10:09 PM
can soeone pm me the intructions on how i can use me oki 5600 and print on these asda nugs please?
Xmas is coming and I have a cheapo xmas pressie idea.
Don't listawood sell lasewr paper as well as TMT?

Flash
03-12-2009, 10:45 PM
can soeone pm me the intructions on how i can use me oki 5600 and print on these asda nugs please?
Xmas is coming and I have a cheapo xmas pressie idea.
Don't listawood sell lasewr paper as well as TMT?
GoldRapt,
I've asked my mate to have a look at this thread and add to it IF he chooses to Register. He has the exact same model Oki as you. Help could be on it's way!

Phil

GoldRapt
03-12-2009, 10:53 PM
Cheers Phil,
fingers crossed then

Market Mik
04-12-2009, 01:33 AM
Couple of questions:
Does he have a kiln to fire the mugs after printing
Do laser mugs scratch off
How much is this specialist toner - basic laser toner is about £80 per colour
Why does he have a spoil rate of 1 in 20

Cheers John

Hi John,
Flash (phil) has been talking about me so i decided to sign up and fill you in :shock:

I am using an OKI c5600 printer with standard oki toner altho' i would expect to get the same results from compatible toners, I'll let you know when i try.
My " Kiln" is our gas oven at gas mark 7 for 30 min's

I haven't got a dishwasher but i find it near impossible to scratch the print after it has been baked on and I haven't had any complaints from customers , yet

And my spoil rate is not cos i'm not very good as some peeps would have you believe ( :x Thanks Phil http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/lol.gif ) but because cheap mugs can have flaws and the sudden heating in the mug "press" can cause these flaws to expand and crack the mug.
This evening i printed up 36 mugs and one cracked.
The other factor affecting the spoil rate is that the mug clamps expand slightly and after a while there is not enough pressure at the top and bottom of the transfer so the toner does not transfer properly producing a spoiled mug. I have overcome this by printing about 6 mugs then waiting a while for the clamp to cool before starting again (i put the clamps in the fridge for a few mins).

Like most things its a game of trial and error and it just takes a while to find what suits your situation.

John G
04-12-2009, 09:59 AM
Nice one Market mik - that clarifies it a bit :D still not sure as to quality of print and washofability though :lol: if thats a word!

Market Mik
04-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Nice one Market mik - that clarifies it a bit :D still not sure as to quality of print and washofability though :lol: if thats a word!

I am sure when my old mate flash gets the mug i sent him, he will destruct test it and let us all know the result john lol
mik

GoldRapt
04-12-2009, 11:03 AM
Flash (phil) has been talking about me so i decided to sign up and fill you in :shock:

I am using an OKI c5600 printer with standard oki toner altho' i would expect to get the same results from compatible toners, I'll let you know when i try.
My " Kiln" is our gas oven at gas mark 7 for 30 min's



Hi Mik,
Can you tell us more about the process for using asda stonewear mugs please? I have an oki 5600 and would like to learn how to use it in this fashion
regards

Market Mik
04-12-2009, 11:27 AM
Hi Mik,
Can you tell us more about the process for using asda stonewear mugs please? I have an oki 5600 and would like to learn how to use it in this fashion
regards

Hi Gold,
Its quite straightforward really. I use magic touch CPM 6.1 paper in the printer to make the transfer. I then press it on the mug using a magic touch mug press and clamps altho you could use an oven if you only have the clamps. In the machine it takes 6 mins in an oven about 15-20 mins.
after the picture is on the mug, i just put it in the oven at gas mark 7 for 30 mins without the clamp, to glaze the image on.
job done.

hope this helps :lol:

GoldRapt
04-12-2009, 11:45 AM
And all with some cheapo mug from Asda mate.
£1 a pop Asda.
Any ideas on the life cycle of the paper, I reckon I have some CPM 6.1 that TMT sent a mate about 3 years ago :D

Flash
04-12-2009, 11:54 AM
[quote="John G":1kgx5kws]Nice one Market mik - that clarifies it a bit :D still not sure as to quality of print and washofability though :lol: if thats a word!

I am sure when my old mate flash gets the mug i sent him, he will destruct test it and let us all know the result john lol
mik[/quote:1kgx5kws]
Sure thing friend http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_bounce.gif

Phil

Market Mik
04-12-2009, 01:07 PM
And all with some cheapo mug from Asda mate.
£1 a pop Asda.
Any ideas on the life cycle of the paper, I reckon I have some CPM 6.1 that TMT sent a mate about 3 years ago :D

Sorry mate, no idea on the life but the stuff i am using is around a year old so give it a go and see. set the printer for heavy paper.
Oh and the mugs are 4 for £1 asda smartprice stoneware mugs lol

accdave
04-12-2009, 08:05 PM
Out of interest Mik, what do you reckon the cost of your mugs are in total ?

Will also be interesting to seewhat cost everyone applies to a sublimated mug. It's obviously difficult to get an exact cost, but I work on £2 per mug which I think is very top end cost.

Flash
04-12-2009, 08:29 PM
Out of interest Mik, what do you reckon the cost of your mugs are in total ?

Will also be interesting to seewhat cost everyone applies to a sublimated mug. It's obviously difficult to get an exact cost, but I work on £2 per mug which I think is very top end cost.
Hi accdave,
I think Mik mentioned in an earlier post that he can produce a finished 'Asda Smartprice' mug for a meer 75 pence :shock:
That's 25 pence for the mug & 50 pence for the decorating cost. Sounds cheap against your £2.00 for a Sublimated mug........IF the print stays on it http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif
It's a method I think I will try before I spend ££££££££ on Sublimation kit, as I already own a Colour Laser Printer.
Now i'm wondering if this method will work in a Mug Press :?: Anyone?

Phil

accdave
04-12-2009, 09:00 PM
Out of interest Mik, what do you reckon the cost of your mugs are in total ?

Will also be interesting to seewhat cost everyone applies to a sublimated mug. It's obviously difficult to get an exact cost, but I work on £2 per mug which I think is very top end cost.
Hi accdave,
I think Mik mentioned in an earlier post that he can produce a finished 'Asda Smartprice' mug for a meer 75 pence :shock:
That's 25 pence for the mug & 50 pence for the decorating cost. Sounds cheap against your £2.00 for a Sublimated mug........IF the print stays on it http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif
It's a method I think I will try before I spend ££££££££ on Sublimation kit, as I already own a Colour Laser Printer.
Now i'm wondering if this method will work in a Mug Press :?: Anyone?

Phil

ooops not seen that.

Is that 50p just for paper and ink ?. There appears to be a lot more power consumption in Mik's method. I think my £2 is very top end, would love to see what others think

Stitch Up
05-12-2009, 08:54 AM
If you go down the route of laser sub printing of mugs you'll probably look at the final result and think; "Hmmmmm, I'm impressed". Then, like us you'll print several hundreds or maybe even 1000s.

Then one day you go to one of the trade shows and visit the Novechrome or Xpres stands. There, you'll witness the creation of dye-sub mugs, plates etc etc and you'll think; "Hmmmmm, mine are crap".

Believe me, laser sub'd mugs are crap when sat alongside dye-sub mugs.

And yes, laser sub'd mugs do scratch too, maybe not immediately, but after a while they look even crappier :lol:

GoldRapt
05-12-2009, 11:00 AM
15p a pop for xmas prezzies and getting rid of some old paper I have for the OKI wont have me worrying about what's crap and what's not John, however I do take your point.

With the oven thing though Mik, do you apply new glaze and have you ever tried a JML halogen Oven please?

Stitch Up
05-12-2009, 11:07 AM
Don't get me wrong, we still have our laser sub equipment and will use it many times. There's always a market for crap, cheap items.

Give the customer what they want everytime. I'll churn this stuff out all day & everyday if it sells :)

Flash
05-12-2009, 07:35 PM
Don't get me wrong, we still have our laser sub equipment and will use it many times. There's always a market for crap, cheap items.

Give the customer what they want everytime. I'll churn this stuff out all day & everyday if it sells :)

Well I received my sample mug from Mik (Market Mik) and wouldn't call it crap! Obviously I am no authority on mug decoration but then neither are most of the general public!
All I can say is that it appears that Mik is making a fair living selling them on markets at the weekend! Good on you Mik.
The two most prosperous shops in my High Street at the moment are 'Poundland' and '99p Stores' both of these are selling 'cheap' items not necessaraly crap but cheap! Both of these retailers are, I believe, expanding rapidly throughout the country, taking advantage of the current economic market where people are finding themselves short of cash!
I should also mention that both of the above retailers stock ranges of decorated mugs & you've guessed it at £1.00 each! It also appears that they are not having any problems shifting these (crap) mugs at this price. Why? Because they are cheap and functional.
So Mr Stitch Up, you stand on your mountain and sing how beautiful your Sublimated mugs are, charge what you like for them & probably sell very few!
I have today been to my local Asda and purchased 40 packs (yes that's 160 mugs) for just £40.00 I won't be able to sublimate them as they are not sublimation mugs but I will be decorating them and selling them cheap!
To the workshop http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_bounce.gif

Phil

GoldRapt
05-12-2009, 08:21 PM
I went to the local Asda today and founf that smartprice mugs were £4 for All white workamans type, and stonewear mugs were £4 for 4 two black and two white but sort of ovaly shaped.
Flash, im the mug here
:D can you post a picyy of which mug you bought please?

Flash
05-12-2009, 08:26 PM
I went to the local Asda today and founf that smartprice mugs were £4 for All white workamans type, and stonewear mugs were £4 for 4 two black and two white but sort of ovaly shaped.
Flash, im the mug here
:D can you post a picyy of which mug you bought please?
I won't be able to get a picture until Monday as I dropped them all off at the shop, then I have a few camera issues ;)
What you want are the Asda 'Smartprice' mugs. They are packed in a long line of four and all white.
I can assure you they are £1.00 for the four, yes, 25p each :shock:
Don't go to the Broadstairs Store they are OUT OF STOCK :D

Phil

GoldRapt
05-12-2009, 08:30 PM
Them fluffin barstewards at the Bristol stores have them at £4 a line phil.
But hey, for xmas pressies im back tomorrow mate :D

And dont forget other ways of decorating these mugs :D

Flash
05-12-2009, 08:43 PM
Them fluffin barstewards at the Bristol stores have them at £4 a line phil.
But hey, for xmas pressies im back tomorrow mate :D

And dont forget other ways of decorating these mugs :D

Everything is cheap down this way mate, i'm in the 'butt-end' of Kent!
I've had a play with water-slide Transfers today and I must say I am pretty pleased with the results ;) I'm going to bake a couple tonight as this is meant to make them more durable.
If I find they are still not durable enough i'm going to experiment with Acrylic Clear Lacquer.
I have also purchased a worktop mini-cooker (Argos £39.09) today & will purchase a couple of mug wraps and try the Laser Transfer method also.
Both of the above methods will produce a mug cheaper than Dye-Sublimation and if priced correctly will sell in the shop, if not, Ebay :D

Phil

GoldRapt
05-12-2009, 08:44 PM
Shop! Shop!, you got a fluffin shop! You one of them millionaires phil
Dont forget spray paint and armour etch :D :D

Flash
05-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Dont forget spray paint and armour etch :D

Don't joke about things like that............my Missus is a bit tasty with an Air-Brush http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png There you go another method of decorating a mug! Durable too http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_tongue.png

And no, not a millionaire, but practicing ;) I will be once i've decorated these mugs 8)

Phil

GoldRapt
05-12-2009, 09:20 PM
Ah but your still thinking white mugs mate :D

Market Mik
06-12-2009, 04:58 AM
If you go down the route of laser sub printing of mugs you'll probably look at the final result and think; "Hmmmmm, I'm impressed". Then, like us you'll print several hundreds or maybe even 1000s.

Then one day you go to one of the trade shows and visit the Novechrome or Xpres stands. There, you'll witness the creation of dye-sub mugs, plates etc etc and you'll think; "Hmmmmm, mine are crap".

Believe me, laser sub'd mugs are crap when sat alongside dye-sub mugs.

And yes, laser sub'd mugs do scratch too, maybe not immediately, but after a while they look even crappier :lol:

Hi Stich,
When you say "laser sub" are you talking about the same process that i am using?
Dye sublimation, as i am sure everyone here knows , is the process whereby the ink on your transfer is converted directly to a gas with no liquid stage. It then permeates the "coating " on the mug to produce the image.

Laser transfer however is the process where the toner is deposited on a specially formulated paper which allows the toner to release when heated and attach to the surface of the mug. The "glazing" process i talk of is when the toner is then heated at a high temp to allow it to bond to the new surface properly, a by product of this is that is becomes glossy.
Theoretically if you could build a printer that used mugs instead of paper, you could print directly onto the mug.

I personally have no favorite except that i found that it was cheaper and more cost effective for me to go down the laser route. With respect to quality and price, i have found that the mugs i produce are as good as any dye sub mug i have seen and when a customer holds both types in their hand, they really don't care how it was produced, as long as its what they want.
If a business buys a hundred mugs , they will only look at the cost, as long as it looks good. If an individual buys a mug they will either treasure it, so it will always look good or they will use it , in which case they will probably break it before the quality of the process used to make it will become an issue.
If however I wished to produce works of ceramic art, I would be a potter and i wouldn't use either method.

Each one of us has their own favorite method and i do realise that this forum is a dye sub forum I just happen to like being able to buy readily available toner and transfer paper then produce 3000 pages before i have to buy more.

mik

JSR
06-12-2009, 12:24 PM
With respect to quality and price, i have found that the mugs i produce are as good as any dye sub mug i have seen and when a customer holds both types in their hand, they really don't care how it was produced, as long as its what they want.
If a business buys a hundred mugs , they will only look at the cost, as long as it looks good. If an individual buys a mug they will either treasure it, so it will always look good or they will use it , in which case they will probably break it before the quality of the process used to make it will become an issue.
Are laser transfer mugs dishwasher-safe?

We're so used to hearing the phrase "RN-coated" for dye-sub mugs. Is there an equivalent for laser transfer mugs, or are they inherently dishwasher-safe?

Thanks!

J

Stitch Up
06-12-2009, 12:28 PM
Hi Mik

Yes, I was referring to this ... Laser transfer however is the process where the toner is deposited on a specially formulated paper .

I'd guess we've produced several 1000 mugs using this method and we do return the mug to the mug machine for glazing after the transfer paper is removed.

If you're producing laser transfer mugs at the same quality as ink dye-sub, then you're onto a winner - price wise.

We got all our equipment from TMT and spent a day there doing training with Carl Newbury. Carl showed us mugs they'd produced with the laser transfer method and those they produced with the dye-sub method. The difference was huge, dye-sub producing a far better appearance.

Carl pointed out that dye-sub wins on quality everytime and this has been our experience.

John

Market Mik
06-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Hi Mik


I'd guess we've produced several 1000 mugs using this method and we do return the mug to the mug machine for glazing after the transfer paper is removed.


John

Hi John,
I have to admit that i found that the result was better if you put the mug in a domestic oven rather than return it to the press. I found that the image didnt seem to have glazed evenly after a second time in the press and it just wasn't "glossy" enough.
From a financial point of view, if you are using a magic touch htp 616 it makes more sense not to use it for "glazing" as the lamps have a rated life of only 15 hours and at magic touch prices, replacements are very expensive. The way i look at it is that if i "glaze" in an oven then i am effectively doubling the life of the lamps.
Of course as i hate being tied to any supplier, i have already found a source of lamps at under half the price of TMT lol



Are laser transfer mugs dishwasher-safe?


Laser transfers attach to any ceramic, there are no special coatings necessary. You could take a plate out of your cupboard and use a laser transfer on it as long as it can handle the heat involved.
If the original ceramic is dishwasher safe then it will still be dishwasher safe after you print it, the laser toner bonds at over 150 degrees so the heat of a dishwasher will not affect it.
After xmas i am going to experiment with beer glasses http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif . will let you know how it goes.
Mik http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_pirat.png

JSR
06-12-2009, 01:31 PM
Laser transfers attach to any ceramic, there are no special coatings necessary. You could take a plate out of your cupboard and use a laser transfer on it as long as it can handle the heat involved.
If the original ceramic is dishwasher safe then it will still be dishwasher safe after you print it, the laser toner bonds at over 150 degrees so the heat of a dishwasher will not affect it.
Thanks for the info. I've dabbled with laser transfers using TMT paper in the past but wasn't very successful. The cost of the TMT paper put be off investing further until I'm in a position to look at it properly.

It's interesting that you say "the laser toner bonds at over 150 degrees so the heat of a dishwasher will not affect it" because that's different to dye-sub in that you could be sublimating at 200 degrees with no problem, but if it's not a dishwasher-safe mug it won't have a very happy life. I did some tests myself at one stage (
results here (http://www.mugsandgifts.co.uk/zshop/index.php?main_page=page&id=30&chapter=0)) which made me think long and hard about the durability of claimed dishwasher properties.

JSR

GoldRapt
06-12-2009, 01:50 PM
Of course as i hate being tied to any supplier, i have already found a source of lamps at under half the price of TMT lol
Mik http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_pirat.png

Oh, Do tell me deareo :D

Some questions to ponder on might be:
Can one use a halogen oven to reglaze as that will be quicker/cheaper than your kitchen oven.
Surely theres more than just TMT selling the approariate paper and maybe cheaper.

Oops and I missed out one thing, this is all fine and dandy for doing "workmans" type looking mugs but how does one do a mug that has a diffent shape, is it another press or a different process?

JSR
06-12-2009, 02:15 PM
Oops and I missed out one thing, this is all fine and dandy for doing "workmans" type looking mugs but how does one do a mug that has a diffent shape, is it another press or a different process?
That's a good question. Is it possible to use laser transfer for colour-change mugs and, if so, are there any non-dyesub colour change mugs around that are cheap enough to justify it?

Flash
06-12-2009, 02:22 PM
As mentioned, went to Asda and got myself some mugs on Saturday :D
http://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/14/61/63/36/enough10.jpg

These are the ones you are looking for:
http://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/14/61/63/36/mugs10.jpg

Dont go to Asda Broadstairs to get them, they are OUT OF STOCK http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/lol.gif

Phil

Market Mik
06-12-2009, 05:01 PM
It's interesting that you say "the laser toner bonds at over 150 degrees so the heat of a dishwasher will not affect it" ...

JSR
Laser toner is a plastic polymer that unlike ink will not run so it shouldn't bleed onto other areas of the mug, also as it is designed to work at high temps the heat of a dishwasher shouldn't pose any problems to the integrity of the print.
Of course this is all speculation on my part as i don't have a dishwasher. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has actually tested laser print mugs.
mik

GoldRapt
06-12-2009, 05:07 PM
These are the ones you are looking for:
http://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/14/61/63/36/mugs10.jpg

Dont go to Asda Broadstairs to get them, they are OUT OF STOCK http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/lol.gif

Phil

Cheers Phil,
On both counts :D

Flash
07-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Well the old Water-Slide transfers were none too sucsessful, or I got something wrong :oops:
After application they looked ok, I let them fully dry for about 3-4 hours, then baked them at 180 celcius for a few minutes. They looked fantastic at this point BUT they scratched off very easily :(
Now I did read somewhere that you could spray over the transfers after baking with Clear Acrylic Laquer but i'm affraid that if I wanted to ponce around like this I would have choosen a different career path :D
PLAN B me thinks!

Phil

JSR
07-12-2009, 11:53 PM
Now I did read somewhere that you could spray over the transfers after baking with Clear Acrylic Laquer but i'm affraid that if I wanted to ponce around like this I would have choosen a different career path :D
When I did a couple of water-slide decal mugs way back in the beginning, I got a spray can of acrylic lacquer (or whatever it was). The mug I sprayed does actually look quite good - the only naff-looking bit is my cack-handed spraying work which led to a couple of obvious drip marks.

That convinced me that, as you've discovered, poncing about like that isn't a whole lot of fun! :lol:

At the end of the day, yes sublimation can work out more expensive on a cost-breakdown but if the alternatives take longer then you have to weigh up how much your time is worth. I know when I've sublimated a mug, it's done, finished, nothing more to be done, no worries. That peace of mind is worth spending a few more pennies on it over alternatives like water-slide decals.

Water-slide decals are great for craft hobbyists who want to make a one-off mug for Great Aunt Maud's 76th Birthday, but as a career path? I don't think so.

Flash
08-12-2009, 12:11 AM
JSR, oh so true, all you do say!
The mug I produced with water-Slide Transfer my 'Aunt Maud' wouldn't even put her teeth in with a sterident tablet :lol:
I have got quite a few Asda 'Smartprice' mugs which I am going to print now with laser transfer. Mainly because I already own a Colour Laser Printer.
But I will be investing in a Sumlimation set-up in the very near future!

Phil

GoldRapt
08-12-2009, 09:57 PM
four for a pand guvnr.
Dont bother going to emnersons green asda :D

GoldRapt
09-12-2009, 09:42 PM
I dug the pack of papers out and see that they are
TMT 6.0
With a yellow A4R format sticker thereon.
Is this any good?

The Phoenix
19-12-2009, 08:16 AM
I have an Oki 5250 optimised for printing on plastic (number plate film) and as such it will also print on TMT substrates. Prior to delving into dye sublimation I tried a product from Crafty Computer Paper which was to decorate mugs. After about seven or eight mugs I gave the idea up as it was too faffy, and I did not get a decently enough decorated product to pass on never mind worth selling. As an engineer I believe in having the right tool for the right job. The Oki is used for printing on number plate film and water slide decals. The Ricoh is for dye sublimation printing, which took me 4 mugs to perfect my timings, and the HP1220 is for printing on standard paper.

As has already been mentioned here, dye sublimation printing gives a far more superior image and it is less faffy. Where one's own time is to be considered it takes less time to produce a dye subbed mug. For craft work and what I would consider less professional items, the gimmicky papers are ok.

mrs maggot
29-12-2009, 10:12 PM
ok, ive read all the pages, can someone help me out here, if i only want to make black lettering onto white mugs (either sub mugs or asda whichever would be right) - can i use my laser printer with standard cartridge in it (its only a black printer) and what paper would i use.

Paul
29-12-2009, 10:28 PM
Hi mrs maggot! I can not help ypou much with it as I never done it my self but I think you can find all info HERE (http://www.themagictouch.co.uk/)


Paul

mrs maggot
29-12-2009, 10:50 PM
cheers paul i use them already

all i was trying to do was get a round up from all of the infor in these 5 pages, to see if what i already have is ok - as mik is using, i think or not, the problem sometimes with a really long set of replies, is the devil in the detail gets lost, hence me putting together what i want to do, to see if it corresponds with any of the experience that the others have had

John G
29-12-2009, 11:42 PM
Quote: Its quite straightforward really. I use magic touch CPM 6.1 paper in the printer to make the transfer. I then press it on the mug using a magic touch mug press and clamps altho you could use an oven if you only have the clamps. In the machine it takes 6 mins in an oven about 15-20 mins.
after the picture is on the mug, i just put it in the oven at gas mark 7 for 30 mins without the clamp, to glaze the image on.
job done.


As above - Quote taken from market mik - 3rd page of this thread. Yes you can use standard laser printer but it has to be printed onto CPM 6.1 paper, pressed with heat press then pressed again with no paper on.

Cheers John

mrs maggot
30-12-2009, 12:03 AM
thanks john, i did not know if he was using a special toner in the laser copier or not, i will get some from CPM paper and give it a whirl