PDA

View Full Version : Which A4 Printer for Sublimation?



Flash
03-12-2009, 10:22 PM
Ok people, it looks like it's sublimation for me so I am going to need a printer to dedicate for this purpose.
I will be needing to get maximum efficiancy from this printer so will be hooking up a C.I.S.S system to it.
What is a current model best suited for this purpose in mind?
I'm tempted with the Ricoh GX5050n on Ebay talked about on these forums but those replacement cartridges are a little rich :shock:
Thanks in advance again for your kind help.

Phil

bms
03-12-2009, 10:26 PM
Choice in the A4 market is the Epson D120 with the Easyflow system (500ml of ink in total) at around £295 +vat or the Ricoh GX5050 with 4 subli-jetR ink cartridges (240ml in total) at prices starting around £349 +vat. The new Epson B40W is also now supported (with the Easyflow system) but prices could be the same as the Ricoh.

Paul
03-12-2009, 10:53 PM
you can get hold of old epson D88 (I use this one) it will cost you about £40 + cis :)

Flash
03-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Thanks Martin,
I see the Epson D120 retails for £49.99 on the Epson UK website, probably get it cheaper if I hunt!
Can I not just hook-up a good empty C.I.S.S system to this and fill it with Dye-Sub Ink?

Phil

JSR
03-12-2009, 11:38 PM
Thanks Martin,
I see the Epson D120 retails for £49.99 on the Epson UK website, probably get it cheaper if I hunt!
Can I not just hook-up a good empty C.I.S.S system to this and fill it with Dye-Sub Ink?

Phil
I think you generally find that an Easyflow system supplied with ink and "pre-primed" works out roughly the same as the cost of the Artanium ink that's in it. The actual CISS is not costing you all that much.

If you did it from separates, you'd need to get the ICC profile - which generally comes free with the CISS, but you may have to pay for if you don't buy the CISS.

That said, I wish they'd provide "low-volume" CISS for some of these printers. I'd like to get a backup printer (such as an A4) complete with Easyflow CISS but I can't put up the full cost of one filled with ink when I have half-full bottles of the stuff on my shelf. If someone sold a low-volume CISS (maybe just 40ml of each ink so that it's "ready to go" for a VAT-inclusive price of under £200, or under £150 for a 4-ink system) then they'd probably have more sales.

Justin
04-12-2009, 12:35 AM
May be worth starting off with refillable cart's until you're doing more work. A bit fiddly to start with but cheaper than buying a CIS and also less prone to problems with air blockages in lines etc.
If you do this make sure you get decent carts though. My first lot split at the edges, luckily whilst out of the printer. The ones I'm using now are working perfectly, fingers crossed.

Justin

bms
04-12-2009, 08:59 AM
Epson D120 retails for £49.99 on the Epson UK website

Epson should start selling hens teath - they are just as easy to source at the moment! :!:

AJLA
04-12-2009, 09:53 AM
Hen's teeth aahh..they're freat fried, if you can get hold of them that is..
Like Paul I have a D88, been an old faithful to me with very few problems.

Flash
04-12-2009, 10:37 AM
May be worth starting off with refillable cart's until you're doing more work. A bit fiddly to start with but cheaper than buying a CIS and also less prone to problems with air blockages in lines etc.
If you do this make sure you get decent carts though. My first lot split at the edges, luckily whilst out of the printer. The ones I'm using now are working perfectly, fingers crossed.

Justin
Hi Justin,
I had a whole lot more problems with refillable carts than I have had with my C.I.S.S. My cartridges split too, when I threw them across my shop :twisted:
The theory I came up with is that when you need to remove the carts to fool the printer that you have changed them(this is what I had to do with mine anyway!) when you put the carts back in you force air into the print head.
In theory, if you keep your C.I.S.S system topped up correctly air should never get in as it is a sealed system.
I have had a very embarrassing experience with a C.I.S.S system before, which was etirely my fault but I will save this yarn for another day :roll:

Phil

Justin
04-12-2009, 08:31 PM
Now you have to tell us the tale......

Justin :oops:

Flash
04-12-2009, 08:41 PM
Now you have to tell us the tale......

Justin :oops:
Ohhh, go on then!
:idea: First some advice......ALWAYS keep your C.I.S.S reservoirs at the same level as your printer! I didn't :oops:
I arrived the next morning to find about 400ml mix of CMYK drained inside my brand new Epson http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif Shall we just say it was fooked.

Who's first?

Phil

Flash
04-12-2009, 08:47 PM
Epson D120 retails for £49.99 on the Epson UK website

Epson should start selling hens teath - they are just as easy to source at the moment! :!:

Your not wrong here bms, tried sourcing one today OUT OF STOCK :x

Phil

accdave
04-12-2009, 09:05 PM
The ones I'm using now are working perfectly, fingers crossed.

Justin

From ?? :D

I have a 1400 with a partially blocked head so I'm reliant on the trusty D88. I use cartridges ( can't remember where from off the top of my head.) , and find it so much easier to deal with than meddling with a faulty CISS system, of which I've had 2. I also found a D88 on a local car boot a couple of months ago. £8 was worth trying for a backup printer if it worked, and you know what.... it does :D

Calypso Bay
05-12-2009, 09:35 PM
Hi Phil,

Try ebay for the D120. I think there is a place in Manchester that has them on ebay for £49.99 plus delivery of £10.00. Brand new.

ebay co. name goes something like 123456789

Calypso Bay
05-12-2009, 09:42 PM
Phil,

Hi again. Just been on ebay. The same company that was selling the D120 for £49.99 until Thursday, has just shot up to £69.99 plus £10.00 for delivery. Dont buy it that price from them until you tried a bit of haggling for £49.99 and see what they say. There are some others selling them so have a good look around.

Flash
05-12-2009, 09:49 PM
Phil,

Hi again. Just been on ebay. The same company that was selling the D120 for £49.99 until Thursday, has just shot up to £69.99 plus £10.00 for delivery. Dont buy it that price from them until you tried a bit of haggling for £49.99 and see what they say. There are some others selling them so have a good look around.

Cheers Calypso Bay, i'll keep looking!
It looks like there are C.I.S.S systems for 'most' Epson printers but it appears that this alone is no good if the Ink 'cartels' don't support the printer with I.C.C profiles.

Phil

bms
06-12-2009, 10:01 AM
C.I.S.S systems for 'most' Epson printers but it appears that this alone is no good if the Ink 'cartels' don't support the printer
Sorry Phil, that's about it in a nutshell. It's a 3 horse race at the moment in the A4 market - Epson D120, Epson B40W, Ricoh GX5050.

valentine rhodes
14-12-2009, 10:59 PM
what is the difference between a 4 colour or a 6 colour printer.is the job going to be very different?
and what is ciss.can you buy an ordinary printer and put sublimation ink in.as you can gather i'm just starting
up,so any advice is good.
thanks, valentine rhodes

Justin
14-12-2009, 11:05 PM
6 colours will give you better tones, skin etc. Most folk are happy with a 4 colour setup as it does a great job but for some customers you may find 6 colour is better. I have a customer and we scan material and put onto mugs etc. They look fine on 4 colour but 6 colour makes a good difference.

If you're just starting out, go for 4 colour, keep your costs down at the start.

You can buy ordinary printers but will need one of the models mentioned by Martin above. I use the D120 which is great, previously the D88 was fine, both 4 colour A4 printers.

Justin :-)

Paul
14-12-2009, 11:08 PM
what is the difference between a 4 colour or a 6 colour printer.is the job going to be very different?
and what is ciss.can you buy an ordinary printer and put sublimation ink in.as you can gather i'm just starting
up,so any advice is good.
thanks, valentine rhodes
hi. diference between 4 and 6 colors is in quality of colors produced by printer. but this is only when you print photographs on normal photo paper using normal inks. I usede to use 6 color printer and I can not tell the diference between 4 color I am using now tbh. so 4 ink printer will be cheaper on inks :)

what do you mean ordinary printer? cheapes one you can get and fill up with sub ink? If thats what you asking for answer is "NO"
only epson printers and ricoh a good for this job. but not only that. you need ICC profile to produce right colors.


Paul

valentine rhodes
24-12-2009, 06:18 PM
valentine rhodes
the epson printers seem to have a lot of trouble with there heads, air blocks or drying in. Are the ricoh gx5050 prone to any of these faults.
And a merry xmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

voicis
24-12-2009, 11:53 PM
valentine rhodes
the epson printers seem to have a lot of trouble with there heads, air blocks or drying in. Are the ricoh gx5050 prone to any of these faults.
And a merry xmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

i disagree with You. I am using epson r285, which is A4 and 6 color, use it with sublimation inks, and everything is okay, never had problems with clogging, printed about few litres of ink :) for more information, about inks etc. >>>>PM

JSR
25-12-2009, 12:14 AM
valentine rhodes
the epson printers seem to have a lot of trouble with there heads, air blocks or drying in. Are the ricoh gx5050 prone to any of these faults.
And a merry xmas and Happy New Year to everyone.

i disagree with You. I am using epson r285, which is A4 and 6 color, use it with sublimation inks, and everything is okay, never had problems with clogging, printed about few litres of ink :) for more information, about inks etc. >>>>PM
I agree. It's not the printers that are inherently faulty. I've had Epson printers for years, all different models, long before I started dye-subbing. The *only* time I had a blockage issue was when someone tried a common "compatible" cartridge to save a few quid. Couldn't get it to do a proper nozzle check at all. But as soon as an OEM cart was put in, one headclean had it working fine - and that was an OEM cart that was four years out of date!

When I began dye-sub, I had a horrible issue with nozzle blocking (so I thought). This was before I had a CISS and was using a couple of dye-sub ink cartridges (Lyson). I could not get a clear nozzle check pattern for love nor money. I eventually put in a couple of new OEM carts and, one head clean later, all was working well.

Epson printers aren't designed to work with CISS or with non-Epson ink. If we get them to work, that's more to do with the durability of the machines and following common practices that prove successful. Yes, air blockages can occur when using a CISS or refillable cartridges but that's not the printer's fault because they were not designed for them.

Ideally, the developer of the ink should manufacture their own printer - one that they can maintain for a long period, one ideally suited to their ink, and one that has replaceable printheads. That'd be Sawgrass, then. But they don't do that. As a result, we're forced to adapt printers that aren't designed for the job and are forever at the mercy of Epson's "revolving door policy" of cheap-end printers. Judging by common talk of the A4 Ricoh, they have a revolving door policy as well.

Saying all that, however, who'd have thought that you could print mugs for the price of a cheap printer and stuffing it full of special ink? Time was that you'd be spending thousands just to get the basic setup, rather than a couple of hundred. Ink blockage issues, when they occur, are the price we pay for not paying the price - if you see what I mean.

Flash
27-12-2009, 08:42 PM
Hi Guys,
Well I hope you are not all feeling as fat as I do at the moment, I think a good walk will help in the morning!
I have put in a cheeky 'offer' for a Epson D120 on Feebay which I am hoping will be accepted.
Now I am trying to work out weather to go for refillable carts or a CISS system for this machine. I am a little confused as on Feebay a search for a CISS system for an Epson D120 throws up 3 results, two show a 4 cartridge set-up and one shows a 5 cartridge set-up :?:
Does the Epson have a 'dual black' cartridge arrangement or not?
I will probably be filling my Epson with 'Rotech' sublimation ink and will be begging for an ICC profile for this set-up in the very near future if anyone could help I would be most grateful.

Phil

Justin
27-12-2009, 08:53 PM
Hi Phil,

The D120 does have 5 cart's (2 blacks) I use the refillable cart's with mine. First set split open and leaked, luckily out of the printer, second set have been just fine although getting the printer to reset when you fill them can be a challenge!
If you get a CIS make sure it's a good one, good idea to start off with the refil. carts until you're happy with the results.

Any reason why you go for the Rotech over Artainium?

Justin :-)

Flash
27-12-2009, 09:00 PM
Hi Phil,

The D120 does have 5 cart's (2 blacks) I use the refillable cart's with mine. First set split open and leaked, luckily out of the printer, second set have been just fine although getting the printer to reset when you fill them can be a challenge!
If you get a CIS make sure it's a good one, good idea to start off with the refil. carts until you're happy with the results.

Any reason why you go for the Rotech over Artainium?

Justin :-)
Hi Justin,
Did you get 'bashed-up' over Christmas? You've got a bag over your head and they have stole most of your posts :shock:
Anyway, back on topic. I regularly use a supplier for Transfer Paper who is a stockist of 'Rotech' Sublimation Ink we have some trading history with this supplier. Would you say the Rotech is inferior to Artainium?
I'm a little nervous about using refillables as I had a nightmare with them in the past! I think though that it will be cheaper to set up than filling a CISS with sublimation ink.

Phil

Justin
27-12-2009, 09:08 PM
The 'bag' image relates to my admin login. I forgot to log that one out before posting! I try to do everything under jnmann :-)

I used Rotech once, several years ago. I could never get the colours right and the company I bought the full CIS from were a complete and utter waste of space, they're one of the big suppliers as well.

Artainium I've never really had problems with (except the cost!) and I'm about to buy a new CIS. I've been toying with the idea of refil. carts in my new 1400 but it'll cost more to buy the inks seperate than a full CIS (Yes, I realise I'll get 90ml opposed to 125ml)

Justin :-)

Flash
27-12-2009, 09:17 PM
I'm glad you cleared that up Justin as when I went back to the thread the 'man called Justin with the bag on his head' had disappeared! I had a drink earlier but not that many :D
Obviously I am open to suggestion as i've not yet made a choice on Ink. As I am just starting out in Dye Sub I would like to get this right. If Rotech is no good I won't buy it! At £50ish per colour for 125ml it could prove to be a costly mistake.
Where do I purchase Artainium Inks?

Phil

Justin
27-12-2009, 09:29 PM
Most suppliers sell the Artainium, BMS, Xpres for example. I'm sure others have had good experience with Rotech but personally I've never been back to it.
I've been debating ink myself recently and I'm hoping to get the Artainium back up and running.

Flash
28-12-2009, 06:31 PM
Hi,
Ok, offer on Feebay was rejected :( The Epson D120 was listed for £69.00 + £9.99 P&P and I offered £55.00 + £9.99 P&P.
Not one to be defeated I went to Google 'Shopping' and managed to get one for £51.97 delivered http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png It's on it's way!
Now just a CISS system (I've decided to go this way!) some Sub Ink, some dye-sub Paper and an ICC profile. Then i'm printing mugs!

Phil

Justin
28-12-2009, 06:35 PM
Great price! Well done. Keep us informed what route you take with ink and paper!

Justin :-)

Flash
28-12-2009, 06:41 PM
Great price! Well done. Keep us informed what route you take with ink and paper!

Justin :-)
Justin,
I was going to use Signal Inkjet on Feebay for their Ink & Paper but if you tell me Rotech is no good i'm open to suggestions! I'm researching now, it looks like it may be best to source a CISS system pre-filled with Sublimation Ink for my Epson D120. Not cheap!

Phil

Justin
28-12-2009, 06:46 PM
No, no licensed option will be cheap I'm afraid. Hopefully someone will pop into the thread and tell me how good they find Rotech ink, I only have limited experience with it so this may be a bit of an unfair assesment.

Justin

swimwivsquid
28-12-2009, 06:48 PM
Hi Flash, I wouldn't rule out Rotech ink. I use it and have done for a few years and can't say I've had any major problems other than the odd clogging of heads due to underuse. Managed to free them with head cleaning solution and have been printing away fine. Getting some nice results.
Regards
Richard

mrs maggot
29-12-2009, 11:26 AM
flash, would you be able to put a post up, showing exactly what you ended up ordering and the costings, i recently bought a mug press, and now realise that my epson printer that i use for everything else is no good for dye sub, so am in the process of looking, and its all a bit mind boggling at the moment. so i have a press & some mugs - and thats it lol

Flash
29-12-2009, 04:26 PM
flash, would you be able to put a post up, showing exactly what you ended up ordering and the costings, i recently bought a mug press, and now realise that my epson printer that i use for everything else is no good for dye sub, so am in the process of looking, and its all a bit mind boggling at the moment. so i have a press & some mugs - and thats it lol
Sure,
I managed to get an Epson D120 printer from these guys (http://www.custompcwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue__Inkjet__122.html) for £51.99 including delivery. Tough things to get hold of, most places are 'Out Of Stock'!
I managed to get a Mug Press on Feebay for a 'best offer' of £70.00 from here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-Sublimation-Printing-Mug-Press_W0QQitemZ220532701328QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_C amerasPhoto_Printing_PrinterInkCatridges_JN?hash=i tem3358c5f890) add £9.50 Courier delivery to this price.
Next step is to order a CISS system pre-filled with Sublimation Ink for the Epson D120, I am looking into my options here.
I have kindly been given an ICC Profile for the Epson D120 & Rotech Ink from a fellow Forum Member so I will probably go this route.
Then some Sublimation Paper and I should be printing mugs!
I am also looking around at the moment for a great deal on an Oki Colour Laser Printer as I also have 160 Asda Smartprice mugs to decorate http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/affraid.gif Should be a busy New Year http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_bounce.gif

Phil

mrs maggot
29-12-2009, 04:34 PM
phil,
you have just confused me further...
with the laser printer, do you still need sub ink - ?
what paper will you use with a laser printer ?

i only ask as i have a black laser printer, and the decorations on my mugs will only be wording - black lettering on white mugs - so maybe i dont need another printer after all i could just use the laser printer i already have ?

Flash
29-12-2009, 04:56 PM
phil,
you have just confused me further...
with the laser printer, do you still need sub ink - ?
what paper will you use with a laser printer ?

i only ask as i have a black laser printer, and the decorations on my mugs will only be wording - black lettering on white mugs - so maybe i dont need another printer after all i could just use the laser printer i already have ?
Oh! Mrs Maggot, I have goine and confused you further, read this thread it will help:http://dyesubforum.co.uk/general-dye-sub-chit-chat-f10/other-methods-of-decorating-mugs-t206.htm]

Phil

valentine rhodes
01-01-2010, 10:34 PM
valentine rhodes
epson d120 printer.what coral draw will i need to put on my computer to adjust the colours on the printer.
many thanks val rhodes

valentine rhodes
03-01-2010, 06:19 PM
phil,
i went shopping today, & picked up an epson d120 printer for £40 pounds at Curreys, the bargains are there its just finding them.
val

Justin
03-01-2010, 06:22 PM
Great result! Won't be many of these around for much longer

mrs maggot
03-01-2010, 07:28 PM
they are out of stock online, you will have to call and reserve at a local store for them