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jenthelemur
04-03-2011, 02:39 PM
Hi, looking for a printer suitable for printing stickers - also details on cutters capable of cutting them out afterwards.
Thanks

jenthelemur
04-03-2011, 10:31 PM
i've been looking at printers for over an hour and i'm now completly baffled. We just want one that will print our vinyl stickers (they'll prob never be bigger than a4) and has a reasonable ink that doesn't fade or smudge easily.
I haven't printed onto vinyl for years my brain is now mush.. what is the difference between the dye ink and pigment ink.. and do the cis that you find on ebay actually have the right ink in them?

John G
04-03-2011, 10:34 PM
I don't think you are going to find what your looking for, for under 10K - you'll need a large format solvent printer. If it was cheap and easy, everyone would be doing it.

bms
05-03-2011, 09:35 AM
10K is a bit steep. We can print and cut stickers on a small scale with (1) a colour laser printer, (2) printable colour laser vinyl in A4 sheets and (c) a craft robo cutter. Prices (a) colour laser printer anything from £150 - £600 depending on preference and running costs - often cheaper laser printers = higher toner costs, (b) A4 printable colour laser vinyl around £1ish per sheet and (c) around £195 +vat.

Prints are not as permanent as solvent but will last years, are water proof and durable. If in direct sunlight then colour laser will fade overtime but solvent is much more permanent. Solvent printers though increase costs of setup dramatically.

R.Prints
05-03-2011, 09:36 AM
I use a laser printer which prints directly onto laser vinyl then cut using a Craft Robo or a guilotine depending on the shape.

jenthelemur
05-03-2011, 09:43 AM
i have a craft robo - i didn't think it was going to be good enough to cut out with - does it have a setting for picking up the registration marks?
I've just got corel i was going to try using that as the robo software is a bit naff at times.
What sort of colour laser printer should i look for?
where can you buy this laser vinyl?

jenthelemur
05-03-2011, 09:43 AM
and .. thanks :) your all very knowledgable

R.Prints
05-03-2011, 10:04 AM
In the main menu you tick "use registration marks" box then print through CR hardware after getting outline marked. That way it will cut around shape using the pre-set vinyl setting. I got my sheets from Martin @ BMS and am very inpressed with the end result.

R.Prints
05-03-2011, 10:08 AM
New A4 Laser printers on e-bay for £69:99 free p&p.

John G
05-03-2011, 10:28 AM
In my opinion your not going to get the quality that people expect when paying good money. Laser stickers won't last, for one thing the adhesive isn't strong enough and secondly they won't last outside due to the UV exposure. If you want to produce stickers that will last, and the end customer will be happy with, then your going to have to pay for decent equipment or farm out to someone running a wide format or screen print operation.

bms
05-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Laser stickers won't last, for one thing the adhesive isn't strong enough

There is a market for permanent stickers (at a price) and semi-permanent stickers (at a different price). In what way isn't the adhesive strong enough? We have customers printing onto laser vinyl for crash helmets and for adhesion to go karts and it's proved durable enough for those purposes. We've imersed the printed vinyl in water for days and the colours don't move at all. So the printable laser viyl shouldn't be discarded. It serves a purpose but solvent printed stickers are much more permanent when it comes to UV light. There are different products for different markets for different applications.

draig
05-03-2011, 05:02 PM
Martin, Is it possible to overlaminate a laser vinyl with a liquid Laminate (i.e. Frog Juice), or would a clear vinyl be more durable?

draig

draig
05-03-2011, 05:23 PM
Looking on ebay there are the following for sale
Edge - 320662300076
Roland PC600 - 270714952295

I currently run an older Roland PC60 great for smaller stickers. You have to watch out for the heads though (mine has lasted for 6 years so far - touch wood ).

Pro and cons on both models really.

Edge you need a seperate cutter and sprocketed vinyl, pro for the edge you have a larger printing area which will not be affected by banding.
PC600 - Prone to head failures (which white lines in print normally mean the head has gone), you need to make sure the vinyl is really clean and grease free, smaller print coverage which means multiple passes of the head. Pro: your cutter is included in the machine, and once printing is complete it will contour cut your sticker.

Both really need a overlaminate for durability, I use Liquid Laminate and brush on with a foam brush.

draig

bms
05-03-2011, 07:40 PM
Martin, Is it possible to overlaminate a laser vinyl with a liquid Laminate (i.e. Frog Juice), or would a clear vinyl be more durable

I don't see why you couldn't overlaminate with frog juice or something similar if they would increase the life of the inks. We tested some metal prints a few years ago and printed these with sublimation inks and left them outside in full sun for around 9 months (would have been longer but someone pinched them!). Strangely the one covered in a spray of frog juice deteriorate in terms of colour faster than the one not coated - and yes we did double check we had them identified correctly.

draig
05-03-2011, 07:53 PM
Next question Martin PITA aren't I :smile:.
Have you tried doming onto subli metal, and how long would you expect it to last?

draig

bms
05-03-2011, 08:14 PM
Next question Martin PITA aren't I :smile:.
Have you tried doming onto subli metal, and how long would you expect it to last?

draig

Never tried this, but I know one of our local customers does doming so I'll check it out.

GoldRapt
24-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Both really need a overlaminate for durability, I use Liquid Laminate and brush on with a foam brush.

draig

BUMP

draig, are you printing-laminating then cutting or printing-cutting then laminating. I just wonder how your weeding using liquid laminate.
Also, which liquid laminate do you use please?
t

draig
24-04-2011, 05:58 PM
I print/contour cut with the PC60 (thermal transfer), then laminate with frog liquid (I have a 1 litre bottle which I got a while ago from Grafityp, the spray cans didn't go very far) coating with a foam brush (i.e. kids paint foam brushes, should be able to get them off ebay or any decent art shop) I allow the frog to set (approx 5-15mins depending on ambient temp) then weed away excess vinyl, then just leave the laminate to cure thoroughly (usually overnight). As this is only applying a thinish coating it's not a problem for curing time, unlike if you were using doming resin. It's also air drying/curing so no other equipment required.

Hope this explains

Sharon

GoldRapt
24-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Thanks sharon.

The PC60 also prints onto material with wax I think. What do you think the shelf life of one would be as whilst Roland dont support it anymore I understand there is a company in the USA that does....even down to new heads?

draig
25-04-2011, 06:52 PM
Yep using Wax Ribbons you can transfer onto material (I have an old Citizen Printiva for wax printing though). I've had the PC60 for 8 years now, had to replace the head when I first got it (long story and it still leaves a bad taste, Karma might have done it's job though - hopefully!). For the type of stickers I do I think it's superb. The important thing is making sure the vinyl is ultra clean before comitting to printing (I always wipe the vinyl with Isopropyl), and not putting things like transfer flock near it. OK it's old hat and slower than modern equipment, but it still does a good job on metallic printing, and for me with not printing everyday I don't have blocked printheads to worry about. I've been using Print1 ribbons for the last 4 years (refilling the cartridges myself) with no problems. I would say my machine owes me nothing now, and if and when the head does have a problem I can still use it as a cutter.

But then again a couple of our cars could be described as old hat, but definately not slow :biggrin:

Sharon

djhutton
26-04-2011, 11:50 AM
I've been using the laser printable vinyl from Magic Touch with good results.

Print on laser printer, then heat laminate with 'coverseal' (also from MT), then cut on robo cutter, peel off excess vinyl and sell it! Coverseal gives a flexible, slightly textured finish if using the application foam (comes in the box)

I have stickers outside on the windows of a landrover and colour is the same as when printed 2 years or more ago, no sign of coming off (gets hit with the pressure washer - not all that often mind:) Same sticker on a box inside so colour comparison is easy.

I understand that special inks can be used on more expensive printer/cutters for a pro finish, but as others have said a big setup. The ones I've been doing have been well recieved over the years.

BMS supply all the Magic Touch stuff as others may well do.

DJ