Copyright Images.....

[Lee]

I know this has been discussed many times, but I really cant understand how people can use copyright images so blatantly, apparently without any problems.... for example, if you look on various mug sites, the MR MEN range appear to be everywhere.....I would guess these are made and not bought in to re-sell..........? Have all these people applied for a license to produce these, or are they taking a risk, or perhaps these are ok to just produce....! I see sooo many copies, not just online, but in stores also....it would be soo easy for authorities to stop this, but they don't, so could there be some way of obtaining permision or perhaps a loop hole to print these things?

Hmmmm...
:confused:

[gstk]

Its a dangerous line you walk. I know from experience, in my wet behind the ears period I dabbled and then got a lawyers letter from a copyright company. I thought at first it was a scam but it turned out to be deadly serious after some rapid checking. I apologised and basically said the amount they wanted to NOT go to court was beyond me anyway. So if they proceeded they would stand a good chance of not getting it anyway and ceased doing anything with a hint of copyright from that moment on.

It was a shame as we did some great items but I guess had it been my property I'd have been mad too!

[Lee]

yeah, i have heard the stories but it seems sooo many are doing it, doesnt it!

I wonder if people do obtain a licence for Mr Men etc?

[John G]

Nobody obtains licences - if they did it would make the mugs unprofitable. I think you'd be talking mega bucks for the permission then a percentage of the selling price!

Its up to you, stay legal and sell your own designs or flout the law, take a chance and keep looking over your shoulder.

[smitch6]

Mr Men is owned by a company called chorion

i have actually approached them asking for permission or details about a licence and am yet to hear back

[jennywren]

I applied for a license (not Mr men ) and paid for it, but yes it does make it hard to recoup your losses, because with out it my competition would have reported me as sooner blink, and it would have cost me a lot more in the longer run, I think if your just web based it makes it easier to get away with it, but when your serving the general public you never know when trading standards come in, or who you are serving they could be anyone. I do get a bit annoyed when I see it, but what can you do, I just try to focus and earn a living it hard enough at the present climate so I have my moment of distraction and moan, then it my nose back to the grindstone.

[Gordon]

Hi, how do you know what is copyright or not????? ok MR MEN may be copyrighted or not???? how do we know?? & what about things like the olympic ring's, this mager event this just a round the corner as is the wedding????? are these copyrighted?????? is there a copyright list?????.

[Lee]

Mr Men is owned by a company called chorion

i have actually approached them asking for permission or details about a licence and am yet to hear back

Would great to hear the tale as and when you hear back from them..it would give others an understanding and maybe inspire others to go legit!!


I applied for a license (not Mr men ) and paid for it, but yes it does make it hard to recoup your losses, because with out it my competition would have reported me as sooner blink, and it would have cost me a lot more in the longer run, I think if your just web based it makes it easier to get away with it, but when your serving the general public you never know when trading standards come in, or who you are serving they could be anyone. I do get a bit annoyed when I see it, but what can you do, I just try to focus and earn a living it hard enough at the present climate so I have my moment of distraction and moan, then it my nose back to the grindstone.

Could I be cheeky and ask how easy/complicated it was, and rough ballpark figures, as I have nooo idea of the costs/process involved!


Hi, how do you know what is copyright or not????? ok MR MEN may be copyrighted or not???? how do we know?? & what about things like the olympic ring's, this mager event this just a round the corner as is the wedding????? are these copyrighted?????? is there a copyright list?????.

I agree - I think we assume the major ones are covered but what about alot of the others....would be handy if there's a database!

[Kaz]

Most, if not all images out there have a copyright on them.

Why not try the likes of istockphoto etc, buy the rights to use an image and see how you get on.

As to the Royal Wedding, it's over hyped, most young folks out there are more interested in the next season of x factor than the wedding.

There are strict guidelines about what can and cannot be used, re piccys and text, read something about it in the print and promotion magazine last month, will see if I can find it for you

[Kaz]

Here you go, it's on page 4-5 (in case it defaults to the first page)

http://62.128.151.219/A1qgzy/PrintwearJan2011/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.printwearan dpromotion.co.uk%2F

[John G]

Everything you see in print or on the internet is protected by copyright. You don't pay - its automatic.

http://www.staffs.ac.uk/legal/copyright/what_is_copyright/

[foleygifts]

hello, i would also like to know this as it would make things much easier....

I applied for a license (not Mr men ) and paid for it, but yes it does make it hard to recoup your losses, because with out it my competition would have reported me as sooner blink, and it would have cost me a lot more in the longer run, I think if your just web based it makes it easier to get away with it, but when your serving the general public you never know when trading standards come in, or who you are serving they could be anyone. I do get a bit annoyed when I see it, but what can you do, I just try to focus and earn a living it hard enough at the present climate so I have my moment of distraction and moan, then it my nose back to the grindstone.

[jennywren]

It's quite simply just ask, price is decided between you and them, it will vary and they might put a few restrictions on how and where how often (the list is endless ) What have you got to lose by asking at least you'll know, a rough guide is the bigger the name the more it cost. It is not a cheap option and even I've asked I've had a stiff letter warning me not too. Kaz is right the Royal Wedding is right over hyped, we should run a poll and ask who cares, but I'm not buying in and Royal Wedding stuff but Princess Di is still very popular as the Queens Mother. Stock photos are good too. All I know is each time we cover this subject I end up more confused. The only thing I can say is if your new it will take a while to delope your style on the way you do your art work but eventually that will be come your signature.

[Stitch Up]

The only good thing about the Royal wedding is, I get a day off.

I'm not apathetic, I just don't give a damn.

[Kaz]

The only good thing about the Royal wedding is, I get a day off.

I'm not apathetic, I just don't give a damn.

My hubby has been forced to take the day off as the office is closing, I wonder if Buck P are going to pick up the tab for a days lost wage (self employed = no work no pay)

[Stitch Up]

My hubby has been forced to take the day off as the office is closing, I wonder if Buck P are going to pick up the tab for a days lost wage (self employed = no work no pay)

You think they gave a thought?

With regards to Copyright, there's a growing business on eBay of unemployed legal buffs seeking out copyright infringements. They then send out an official looking letter claiming they represent the copyright holder and demanding an 'out of court' settlement.

I wonder who's the most dishonest in this scenario?

[jennywren]

Both deserve each other. next time I get a legal letter it will go straight in the bin lol

[kris_hm]

jennywren - could you please write a little bit more about how to get license ?? I would like to apply for one from video games producer. Mainly I would like to know what requirements I have to meet to get one. I know that it will be different for every case but how it was with you ?? Is something like 'sublimation and vinyl' products enough to reach medium size company ??
regards

[jennywren]

I needed a license for what I wanted to sell, you'll not need a licensee to sell copyright images, but you will need their permission. they are not going to say yes with out some form of payment, (if they agree ) they will be indirectly giving you a license meaning Permission to sell, I did dog mugs once . I advertise for photos of dogs from the public and they brought them in (these was their photos of their dogs.) I then asked if I could use it and paid a small amount for the image and permission to use it to sell to the public. I go to car show and ask if I can take a picture of a car and then ask permission if I may use this image and how I'll be using it. Permission is the key work here, and don't forget the paperwork so that misunderstandings do NOT happen

[Gordon]

jennywren......what are you selling?????? lol

[Lee]

Here you go, it's on page 4-5 (in case it defaults to the first page)

http://62.128.151.219/A1qgzy/PrintwearJan2011/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.printwearan dpromotion.co.uk%2F

Thanks Kaz - so if I've read this correctly, if you abide by the rules, anyone can print royal souvenirs!

I still wonder if anyone can use Mr Men for example, because they are everywhere, and you would think they would be able to chase these guys down quite easily... oh well, it wouldnt hurt to enquire..

[John G]

TPM, No you cannot print "Mr Men" merchandise legally without a licence- its copyright. You can take the chance and print them illegally but this isn't recommended and it will be on your head if caught.

[Lee]

John - I understand that, I guess what Im saying it that there are loads of people doing it and I'm guessing they all havent got authority tp do so...but why aren't they caught easily - afterall, a quick search would reveal those printing illegally... that's what I can't understand...

[Kaz]

Copyright holders haven't caught up with them all yet ;-)

[AdamB]

TPM, it boils down to this mate basically.

The rules and regulations are there, it's your choice if you wish to abide by them or look over your shoulder as you are abusing them.

Many people do flaunt this (doing illegal prints etc) but it's their choice. By doing something illegal you not only run the risk of being found out but also the risk of others providing the same (illegal) images shopping you so they can take the business - and you cannot do anything about it!

Surely the risks outweigh any gains?

[John G]

Put it this way - we've all went a little too fast on a motorway, but we all didn't get points, on out licence, doing it.

Some will get caught, some will get away with it - its up to the rights holder to track these's peeps down and prosecute.

[Lee]

I agree with both - and believe me its not something Im contemplating! It just seems like such an obvious flaunt of the rules, that any search reveals 4 or 5 major players that are selling these products, I would have thought they would be clamped down on straight away... I could understand alot of smaller co's slipping under the radar though.....was just pointing it out ;-)

[Kaz]

Maybe the major players that you mention have got permission to use the images?

[Lee]

maybe - Id really like to know if the cost of the licence was worth the revenue - I guess thats the million dollar question!

[AdamB]

Why not enquire?

As an example, this is the link for enquiring about a disney licence:

https://www.disneyconsumerproducts.com/Home/display.jsp?contentId=dcp_home_help_help_become_li censee_en&forPrint=false&language=en&preview=false&region=0

Note the text at the top though:


The Walt Disney Company is committed to the promotion and maintenance of responsible international labor practices in its licensing and direct sourcing operations throughout the world. Contracted Disney licensees are responsible for adhering to the same practices. For more information on this program, visit our corporate website (http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/intl_labor_standards.html).
How to Submit a Proposal
Disney licensees should meet the following requirements:
1) Your company must have a minimum of five years experience in manufacturing and distribution.
2) Your company must be a manufacturer, NOT a middleman or distributor.
3) Your company must have five years prior experience in the product category being proposed.
Please note: Meeting these qualifications in no way implies or guarantees that you will be granted a Disney license.

[AdamB]

oh and Fisher Price is master toy licensee for Mr Men official merchandise so you'll need some big gonads to compete with those big wigs!

[jennywren]

. A copyright is a legal right given to an author, composer, playwright, publisher or distributor for exclusive publication, sale, or distribution of their work. And a trademark is a name, symbol, or something else identifying a product, officially registered and legally restricted to the use of the owner / maker. This only a loose guide if it helps.

Disney company are hard hard on you when they get you. My friend got done, only by buying some clothes of a wholesaler which was not Disney Licence and they took the lot away ( and stock that's was legitimate ) and fined her big time, she did'nt know and even though she didn't make them but brought from a wholesale that she had been dealing with for years , she was responsible. Hope that makes sense long story told in short mode

[Lee]

Thanks for the info - sounds like it would be really difficult to go down that route, and obviously it's not worth the risk to copy them....therefore it's a case of designing something people want and will sell!!!

[jennywren]

In Lidl they have some very nice mugs of the wedding couple in red boxes at 2.99, if I had some money on me I would have brought a dozen and sold them in the shop with my own mark up, if they still have some next time I go shopping I think I will. I have a friend who sell specialty teas and she often pops in to supermarkets and buy the bog offers and them sells them on.

[Lee]

good idea really - although if you look at say £6-£7 for a mug compared to £3 in lidl - presuming the £3 are good quality (?), you do wonder why people would by from a sole trader and pay more...which is where the personalised angle comes in I suppose...... :-)

[jennywren]

good idea really - although if you look at say £6-£7 for a mug compared to £3 in lidl - presuming the £3 are good quality (?), you do wonder why people would by from a sole trader and pay more...which is where the personalised angle comes in I suppose...... :-)
not everybody shops in lid,l as a sole trader I have been lucky that Market traders and shop keepers have shared their tricks , I can test the waters with these mugs without going to a wholesaler and haveing to fork out a min spend, If I buy the mugs I will put them in a clear box and resale on at 4.99 depending on how fast they I will either buy in from a wholesale or not, but not haveing the the min send, you'll be suprised at how many small shops do it and some might be thinking now on this forum now thats a good idea. and the copyright has not be broken as well.

[John G]

If the wedding mug has a copyright, and Lidl have the rights, then i'm afraid the copyright would stay with Lidl. As soon as you buy the copyrighted mug it doesn't give you the right to sell it on for a profit.

[AdamB]

If the wedding mug has a copyright, and Lidl have the rights, then i'm afraid the copyright would stay with Lidl. As soon as you buy the copyrighted mug it doesn't give you the right to sell it on for a profit.

boo, hiss ............ you know how to dampen a mood eh John ;-)

Only kidding mate, what I like about this forum is that there is such a wealth of experience on here - maybe one day, I'll tell you my secret of a spicy chicken recipe I created many years ago ................. I sold it onto a bloke with white hair and a beard for a few quid ;-)

[John G]

Spicy chicken recipe - now your talking :smile:

[jennywren]

If the wedding mug has a copyright, and Lidl have the rights, then i'm afraid the copyright would stay with Lidl. As soon as you buy the copyrighted mug it doesn't give you the right to sell it on for a profit.

Does that mean when people buy stuff and sell it on that they are breaking the law by making a profit, so in theory if you buy something then sell it on for a profit ( for example when toys are in short supply and someone buys them them then sell them on for a profit they are breaking the law. The mug was in a plain red box with the words royal wedding, it didn't say exclusive made for lidl . I never knew that still you learn something every day,

[Stitch Up]

I've bought lots of stuff from both Aldi & Lidl and sold it on at a decent mark-up :)

[John G]

If you buy copyrighted merchandise legally, then try selling it on - the owner of the copyright can sue you for breaching the copyright. Its got nothing to do with making a profit - your buying the item, not the copyright.

Try selling promotional style items (more than one) with a Premiership Football Club name on - on ebay, and within a few days, maybe a week, and your item will be pulled due to copyright. I'm not saying don't buy the mugs and sell them on - all i'm saying is, regarding the law - its breaking the copyright.

[John G]

Ok - thought I better check out what I believed to be the truth on selling copyright merchandise and have found the following:

http://www.techeye.net/business/ebay-and-other-resellers-endangered-by-court-ruling

I cannot see anybody chasing for the rights owner on these mugs, once the weddings over they aren't going to be selling anymore :wink:

[jennywren]

Well the lower deck lawyers will be making money, does that mean when we buy of a wholesaler that we can't sell it on. this gets more and more confusing, second hand shops, charity shops, car booters, and many more that would take to long to mention, it's unnerving in a way, just glad that I don't trawl the internet reading and digesting everything because 99 percent of the time I like to stay within the law. Still John G you must be the most 100 percent person within the law and I take my hat off to you

[AdamB]

I think wholesalers are ok Jennywren as they are the 'legal' middle-men for distributing goods to retailers.

The whole confusion lies with buying goods from retailers who are end of line if you like and selling the item on again.

Personally, Law or no Law I believe it's called 'enterprise' and does this mean that Alan Sugar got where he is now illegally?

You put an item on sale for a price, if a customer is happy paying that price for it then great - no one's forcing them to buy it. There are 'plenty' of people on ebay selling stuff from shops at ridiculous prices which are being bought by overseas users. Will they do anything about it ............ probably not as the retailer is still selling that particular item for the price they wanted, and this is being sold on by the ebayer who makes a living from it and stops them from claiming benefits!

[AdamB]

JohnG - a question mate please, and this is not me trying to stir anything up - I am just curious.

You are a sign maker and a screen printer (amongst other things) by trade (I believe).

Have you (or would you) create a sign for me (this is a generic question). I am selling sports goods and motorcycle products, so on my signs I want all the trade-mark logos such as addidas, nike, harley davison etc .......................

..................... is this legal re-producing those images and then selling the finished product onto me for profit?

..................... if was legal for you to make the sign, would you check if I was a legit seller?

..................... and if it is legal, surely I would be able to make my own sign up with a disc from ebay with trade logos on? (would this be legal).

As I said, this is not me being argumentative in anyway, I am just curious about the answers that's all.

[John G]

I think, unintentionally, that I'm portraying a false identity - no I'm not squeeky clean and yes, I have made items that skirt around the edges of copyright legallity. In the past I've had a few items removed off ebay including football merchadise, I heart (love) "team name goes here" and even items with a simples critter :smile:

When I was an apprentice printer, (over 25 years ago) I saw - well lets say, athletic names and that guy who's the "BOSS" getting printed. They were printed by the 1000's, everyday but in the end the people who owned the company ended up behind bars - now that was breaching copyright:cool:

AdamB Its a funny situation - if it was for a shop front then yes, aslong as the artwork was supplied and I knew that he was selling legit stuff. If it was for a market trader then no - i'd refuse to do the sign. I'd also refuse to do anything with nike, adidas Hugo Boss :cool: etc as, in the end - they always catch up with you.

And yes I would buy the mugs and sell at a profit - business is business and on this one I'd take a chance.:biggrin:

[jennywren]

it was for a shop front then yes, as long as the artwork was supplied and I knew that he was selling legit stuff. If it was for a market trader then no

I was a market trader for 16 years and now a shop renter for 3 weeks, whilst I was in the indoor market we have trading standards, health and safety, tax man ect around all the time, you name it they came, we had more rules and regulation,s in fact where trading was concerned that had us by the gonads every which way which, we were council run and they had their set of silly rules that was difficult to follow at times, we had to have fire plans, all details had to kept at the market office, name address, even who you employed, and so much more, it would take war and peace to tell you all, now I'm in a shop, has anyone been to see my insurance, fire plan, staff members ect n the answer is NO, beening a shop owner has so much prestige and hardly any check are made on us. Its always been the same go to say a show because you don't have the name shop keeper but market trader on that tag they put around your neck, gives the impression we break the law, have little money and are far down the food chain, but generally we spend more than a shop keeper, pay on time and pay more attention to the rules and regulations than most people in trade, we are generally trade in all weather, in crap buildings, and are viewed as thieving, crap and lower than car booters and are viewed my most councils are cash cows, to provide a service to upgrade shop keepers. In reality we are generally hard working, work longer hours than shops and have not much debt ( who would give market traders credit ) we spend more time on the care of our customers as have the shops are far to busy being up their own arses to entrain the lower and poor class. pity you never done business with a market trader because if they like your work and are reasonable price you then find word of mouth is everything in a market and would have so much work and paid in cash and on time with a set of regulations set down by the council and with in the law

[John G]

Hi Jennywren, I wasn't putting market traders down, I know they are very hard workers and most are above board - but the stuff that I mention above was all sold and picked up by market traders. Paid for by cash - rolls of the stuff, and nothing went through the books. We have a quayside market in Newcastle and a walk along there might open a few eyes - its amazing how these people get away with it if the checks are so stringent.

As for checks on store/shop/unit holders etc - I've had two industrial units, for the first owners I had to show that I had insurance and they wanted to see my business plan - the owners of the second unit, which I'm in now, needed to see insurance, my business plan, the last 2 years books, how many staff, how many cars and rthe sort of work I was going to carry out.

So yes, checks are done here, it must be down to your landlord whether he checks you out or not.

[John G]

Just like to add:

it was for a shop front then yes, as long as the artwork was supplied and I knew that he was selling legit stuff. If it was for a market trader then no

I do make signs for market traders and they pay cash on collection of sign and invoice - they are good payers. What I meant was I wouldn't do a sign with sporting names/logos on for market traders, been there seen it and got the fake t'shirt :cool: