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uk1simon
02-05-2011, 10:36 PM
Hello,

I'm new to this forum, it's really nice to meet you all.

I'm considering to buy Epson r1400 or Ricoh GXE3300. The thing that bothers me is the cost of ink for those printers.
Can you advise me on that one?
What is the price of ink per mug?
What is more expensive CISS for Epson or cartridges for Ricoh in the long run?

And one more thing:
Has anybody calculated cost of printing mugs using A3 vs. A4 printer in terms of difference in price between A3 and A4 printer, difference in price of paper?
You can squeeze more mug designs in one A3 sheet.
So considering just mug subli printing does A3 or A4 printer turn out to be better?


Thanks for any help,
Regards,
Simon

Justin
02-05-2011, 10:54 PM
I think the Ricohs work out a little more expensive than the Epson cost per print.....depends somewhat on any issues you have with head blockages etc. Personally I prefer the Epson but many would disagree :-)

Can't give you specifics all I can say is whilst the initial outlay for the subli ink appears to be expensive, compare it to original ink carts for Epson etc. and you'll see it isn't too bad really. There's plenty of room for a good profit :-)

mgibbs
02-05-2011, 10:58 PM
I think Justin's right that the Ricoh is more expensive - I think Martin from BMS said about 20% more?

However for me the extra cost is worth it to avoid all the hassles I had with blockages on my Epson R1800. Haven't had a single problem with my Ricoh (GX7000)

Mark

uk1simon
02-05-2011, 11:18 PM
Cheers guys, I've just been checking prices.
Ink carts for Ricoh are around £48 each 29ml, which means set for £192
Visi-Sub ink and CISS for Epson R1400 £317 or empty refillable carts £15 + ink around £60. So £317 or £75

It seems to me that Epson is much cheaper to run and the difference is huge or am I missing something?

uk1simon
02-05-2011, 11:23 PM
by the way it seems to me that the cheapest option is Epson D120 (£55) + refillable carts + sub ink?
What do you think?
Would you go for the cheapest one or Ricoh gxe3300 (£135 and has got good reviews)

Justin
02-05-2011, 11:33 PM
I work with refil carts as well as a CIS, this last year refil carts have worked a treat in my S21 and P50. Ricoh seems to generally be more reliable in terms of head blockages although (with a little luck) if your Epson performs as it should you shouldn't need to be cleaning heads every two minutes. A quick nozzle check once a week keeps things moving along nicely.

If you want to get printing quick and have minimum downtime the Ricoh is fine. Epson may be a little trickier initially but will certainly be cheaper and my personal opinion is that the quality is better :-)

Red5
02-05-2011, 11:40 PM
I went down the 'Cheap' route and regretted it, Epson D120 etc, then i found this forum and BMS, now have a Ricoh 3300 and in 2 months of ownership have never had a single issue, No blocked nozzles, no need for cleaning, alignment. The build quality between the 2 is like night and day, if your trying to build a new business up, like is was, then there is no contest imo.

uk1simon
02-05-2011, 11:49 PM
thanks guys
Red5 how long does a 29ml cart last for?
I should rather ask: how many mugs/pages can you do on 4 29ml carts?

And where did you buy your Ricoh?

Regards,
Simon

Paul
02-05-2011, 11:53 PM
is it worth to add that first set of cart wont last long???

Red5
03-05-2011, 12:15 AM
is it worth to add that first set of cart wont last long???
Do you have shares in Epson m8? Agreed when the virgin printer is 1st primed with the 1st set of carts the ink levels appear to drop dramatically, but your not loosing that ink, its still there, and nearly all usable.

Plenty of link on here for pricing etc, this one has a nice PDF price guide for the Ricoh ink per mug http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/showthread.php?2202-Mugs-What-does-everyone-think-it-costs-them-in-ink-Ricoh-and-Dye-Sub

Got my Ricoh from BSM http://www.printerowners.co.uk/sublimation/489/ricoh-sublimation-printers.htm best price in the UK.

There are loads of peeps using epson etc, (that have good results, happy etc) but how many thread are there of users that have changed from Ricoh to Epson?
and unless one had owned and used both, than how can one comment?

from a past post i got this info:
Ricoh ink cost = £200 chap got 286 A4 prints, mixture of full wraps and smaller. works out @ 70p per A4 if your filling the sheet and getting 3 up then its roughly 23p per mug.

D

uk1simon
03-05-2011, 12:15 AM
yeah I know, they won't. You buy this printer and the first thing you need to do is to fork out £160 for a new set of carts, but that's the way it is.

uk1simon
03-05-2011, 12:17 AM
Thanks Red5, good stuff, really helpful

Stitch Up
03-05-2011, 12:18 AM
is it worth to add that first set of cart wont last long???

Yup and that there's an ever increasing number of Ricoh printers being destroyed by the use of Subli inks!

uk1simon
03-05-2011, 12:22 AM
RICOH carts £160 for full set on this site http://www.merlintransfers.com/merlin/Home/Products/Ricoh_Dye_Sub_Printers_and_Inks/Ricoh_Dye_Sub_Inks.html

Paul
03-05-2011, 12:26 AM
fcorse you not loosing this ink. oh thanks god you not :) just need to fork out bit more cash and bit quicker for next set. thats all. personaly Iam epson fan btw.

Red5
03-05-2011, 12:26 AM
RICOH carts £160 for full set on this site http://www.merlintransfers.com/merlin/Home/Products/Ricoh_Dye_Sub_Printers_and_Inks/Ricoh_Dye_Sub_Inks.html

same price as BSM m8, dont forget VAT and delivery charges.

uk1simon
03-05-2011, 12:36 AM
Has anybody worked out the price for Epson?

Paul
03-05-2011, 12:45 AM
somone said once it is £1 per A4 printed full colour. but dont know how it was worked out.

bms
03-05-2011, 08:52 AM
same price as BSM m8, dont forget VAT and delivery charges.

We are £155 + vat on a full set of 4 when bought as a full set, not £160 :) Plus you'll get loyalty points worth at least £1.50 when bought online if you have registered and use you customer login, which is all straightforward.

louise020171
03-05-2011, 10:52 AM
I have use both D120 with cis system and ricoh, i feel if you are not using it several times a week you are better off with the ricoh as i found the d120 which is epson to clog up and sometimes hard to get all the colours to come through. But you may be using it a lot. didnt have any probs with ricoh at all. :)

uk1simon
03-05-2011, 01:29 PM
I have Epson DX4000 myself for office use and I have noticed exactly the same thing as you mentioned louise020171. If you use the printer regulary then it works great, otherwise it just clogs up. When it clogs up you need to clean heads, when you clean heads you loose a lot of ink and that's the main drawback. But bear in mind that Epson ink for CISS is much cheaper then Ricoh cartridges.
I'm going towards Ricoh but still doing my research.
I'd like to hear some more from Epson users.

Thanks for your answers.

Regards,
Simon

Andrew
03-05-2011, 02:19 PM
I suppose you already have your answers - if you will be using regularly and want to produce items as cost effective as possible then it's Epson. If you want to use occasionally then Ricoh is probably a safer bet.

Never used a Ricoh personally but can't say when we used the smaller epson's that we had any real problems. Always worked well and any blockage that did develop cleared easily. If Ricoh was an option then I wouldn't have been tempted away if it costs more to print but we did have regular use. I wouldn't think either way will be that much of a wrong decision.

gstk
03-05-2011, 03:20 PM
I have owned both- currently use the Ricoh 3300 and love it to bits. I wouldnt touch a D120 - I wouldnt want one for free. If you are new to it then the Ricoh will save you heartache. Ciss is always going to be cheaper but time is important as well.

good luck

Paul
03-05-2011, 03:30 PM
is it something about D120 their so crap??? coz we dont hear that much bad about other epsons

gstk
03-05-2011, 03:44 PM
I think that must have been their worst model. I had 2 D88 before that and they were relatively pain free. The D120 was a donkey.

Paul
03-05-2011, 04:31 PM
same here. had d88 and never had a problem. R300 was my first one and good printer too.

uk1simon
05-05-2011, 02:17 PM
thanks guys for your posts

Paul Richards
07-05-2011, 12:24 AM
When I first looked at Sublimation printing, I contacted Epson and they would not give a warranty on any Epson printer using sublimation inks. I am a long term photographer using Epson printers up to A1+ printers, and after consulting with many manufactures, went for the Ricoh Gx 7000. The main reason being that there would be times when the printer would not be worked on a regular basis. Printers need to be used to prevent nozzle blockages
The Ricoh printer seems to handle uses on a irregular basis without nozzle cleans, thus saving liquid gold {Ink}.When investing substantial money in printers, I try and look at the long term situation and what will cost less and maintainence free.
Sadly the suppliers of sublimation inks are not prone to giving discounts regardless of quantity ordered
Perhaps members of this forum could get together and order sublimation inks in bulk orders so that maybe a supplier might respond!

dj_doubler
07-05-2011, 12:46 AM
When I first looked at Sublimation printing, I contacted Epson and they would not give a warranty on any Epson printer using sublimation inks. I am a long term photographer using Epson printers up to A1+ printers, and after consulting with many manufactures, went for the Ricoh Gx 7000. The main reason being that there would be times when the printer would not be worked on a regular basis. Printers need to be used to prevent nozzle blockages
The Ricoh printer seems to handle uses on a irregular basis without nozzle cleans, thus saving liquid gold {Ink}.When investing substantial money in printers, I try and look at the long term situation and what will cost less and maintainence free.
Sadly the suppliers of sublimation inks are not prone to giving discounts regardless of quantity ordered
Perhaps members of this forum could get together and order sublimation inks in bulk orders so that maybe a supplier might respond!

Only problem I have been finding is getting the SubliJet cartridges cheaper then £160+VAT for a full set... just like yourself Paul I have the Ricoh GXe3300 and I put the cartridges in 2 days ago (from new) and filling the tubes shows that all the inks bar black are only half full... so in 3 wks time ill be ordering another batch of £160 ink... taking total outlay to around £800 or so.... alot of mugs to be sold to get that back :-p

Red5
07-05-2011, 01:21 AM
Only problem I have been finding is getting the SubliJet cartridges cheaper then £160+VAT for a full set... just like yourself Paul I have the Ricoh GXe3300 and I put the cartridges in 2 days ago (from new) and filling the tubes shows that all the inks bar black are only half full... so in 3 wks time ill be ordering another batch of £160 ink... taking total outlay to around £800 or so.... alot of mugs to be sold to get that back :-p

So your printing 858 ish a4 sheets every 3 weeks? (see my first post) as some people are getting 286 A4 sheets from a new set of inks.
Sounds like to me that your printer is new? as if putting in a new set of ink carts, in a already used printer the cart levels would not drop much. i.e. a lot of peeps get hung up on the "ink in the tubes, priming the system etc" but in the end it will get pushed along and out on to your paper, its only the very first set where you are technically not getting all that you have paid for. When i stated my business i built in to my plan that the first set of inks would be for training, guess it depends on how much dosh one has.

dj_doubler
07-05-2011, 01:28 AM
So your printing 858 ish a4 sheets every 3 weeks? (see my first post) as some people are getting 286 A4 sheets from a new set of inks.
Sounds like to me that your printer is new? as if putting in a new set of ink carts, in a already used printer the cart levels would not drop much. i.e. a lot of peeps get hung up on the "ink in the tubes, priming the system etc" but in the end it will get pushed along and out on to your paper, its only the very first set where you are technically not getting all that you have paid for. When i stated my business i built in to my plan that the first set of inks would be for training, guess it depends on how much dosh one has.

Yeah printer from new... I was expecting it to drop so now shock horror :-p I am gonna order some inks so when the inks does dry up I can then just do a quick change and away we go again... I think ill get alot of prints out with what I have in there.... im just going to take my time as working full time (night shifts) and looking after my son its fitting everything in...

bms
07-05-2011, 09:29 AM
Only problem I have been finding is getting the SubliJet cartridges cheaper then £160+VAT for a full set

We do them a little cheaper for a full set at £155 +vat. If members on here want to get together and buy as a Co-Op then I will do the set for £150 +vat including delivery. Will need 6 DSF members to go for this at one time. I'll post this in a different section now, so you can all see it and have a think.

mugstore
28-06-2011, 08:34 PM
Hi All
Have just rejoined the forum after around 3 years not looking at it, Epson v Ricoh, I was in a situation in January this year when my Epson 1290 continous ink system developed problems, my supplier was out of stock and so were other places I had tried, so my supplier suggested as a quick (not cheap) fix the ricoh GXE3300 and cartridges, so I thought ok, gets me out of a hole and once I get my Epson 1290 system up and running again can put the ricoh to one side for a spare or sell it. 6 months down the line I am still using the Ricoh and the original set of carts (nearly empty now) I must have printed 500-600 mugs in that time so despite the cost of £200 for a new set of carts that still works out between 35-40p ink per mug, without the ink blockages,tempramental printers and ink spillages when refilling the system. The downside of the Ricoh GXE3300 is that it's only A4, and I have had to reinstall the colour profile a couple of times when my reds were printing slightly "washed out", oh and of course the image has to be reversed manually before printing, otherwise I would reccomend the Ricoh to anyone particularly anyone new to sublimation. I have now decided to continue with the Ricoh after using various Epson models over the years and now have an Epson 1290 and an Epson Photo 900 (both in pretty good condition, were bought second hand in October last year and the 900 still in the box I picked it up in, never used by me) also have some part filled bottles of Artanium ink if anyone interested in buying

jcjohncruzes
03-08-2011, 07:16 PM
It is certain that the Ricoh is very expensive compared to the Epson. Even Epson gives you good results too. According to me about ink cup price is $ 1.5

PersonalizedGiftz
06-08-2011, 09:11 PM
martin i will be wanting a set for the ricoh 3300

bms
07-08-2011, 09:23 AM
martin i will be wanting a set for the ricoh 3300Have replied in your other thread with a discount code for use for any DSF members.

Lee
07-08-2011, 11:00 AM
and of course the image has to be reversed manually before printing

mine atomatically flips it for printing...using PS

Draner
07-08-2011, 12:47 PM
Ricoh will never be able to compete with the epson on cost of ink.

Artainium= £0.48p per ml (inc VAT when burgh in 125ml)
Ricoh3300= £1.65 Per ML (inc VAT)
Ricoh7000= £1.18 per ML (inc VAT)
(based on BMS prices for a single cartridge)

If you have no interest in trouble shooting printers and all you want to do is print hassle free then go for the Ricoh. 99.9% of the time it will just work
on the other hand if you are planing on massive volumes and printing for hours a day, 5 days a week then it will work out better to go for an Epson with the CISS but it will require more work and maintenance.

Stitch Up
07-08-2011, 01:08 PM
Andy is correct.


Ricoh will never be able to compete with the epson on cost of ink.

But, you have to weigh up the pros & cons of each. As I've never owned a bulk ink fed system, I can't really comment on it, but, some of the Pros for the Ricoh:

1. It's VERY fast
2. Excellent print quality
3. With the Powerdriver software, you can print from most design/graphic application.
4. Ease of use & foolproof - no ink issues *
5. It's portable - take it to shows - speed is important.
6. Low maintenance.
7. I'm sure there's more

Cons:
1. Expensive hardware
2. Expensive ink
3. Using Sawgrass inks can kill it DEAD - I know & so do many others!

John

bms
07-08-2011, 01:21 PM
Cons:1. Expensive hardware2. Expensive ink3. Using Sawgrass inks can kill it DEAD - I know & so do many others!JohnTo be fair John, the instances of Ricoh's going 'Dead' seems to be electrical, I.e. No power on switch on for instance. This isn't to do with the ink, but some hardware malfunction on the printer.

Stitch Up
07-08-2011, 01:36 PM
To be fair John, the instances of Ricoh's going 'Dead' seems to be electrical, I.e. No power on switch on for instance. This isn't to do with the ink, but some hardware malfunction on the printer.

I'm sure many will agree with you Martin & equally, there are many who won't. There does seem to be a disproportional number of DEAD Ricoh Gelsprinters loaded with Sawgrass inks - just Google it &/or take a look at comments posted on the T-Shirt Forum.

Why would Sawgras replace an out of guarantee Ricoh printer that died while using their inks?

Either way, here's 13 pages of p****d off Ricoh owners http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t132123.html and there are many more.

bms
07-08-2011, 02:40 PM
There's probably a disproportionate number of Ricoh printer owners using sawgrass inks compared to Ricoh printer owners using Ricoh inks simply because Ricoh probably didn't historically sell many A3 printers. The Ricoh A3 sales have increased dramatically since they've been supported using sublimation inks. So, if there are electrical problems with some A3 Ricoh printers then it stands to reason that many more sublimation users will have such a problem.I'll take a look at that thread in due course - been a while since I've been on that forum.