Image appears yellow on mug..! Why?

[PetPals]

Hi all,

My first post so I'm hoping someone can help...

I have a new Ricoh GX e3300n printer, some sublimation paper, some sublimation mugs from coralgraph and a mug press. It is a cheap mug press but as I'm not doing this to make money I'm hoping that it will do for me.

Here is the what I do.

I print the graphic on the paper - it always looks fine with good sharp colours (have tried both sides in case I was using the wrong side)
I then heat up the press according to instructions
I tape the graphic to the mug (ink side nearest mug, blank side facing out)
Place mug in press and leave (I have tried different times from 2 minutes to 7 minutes)
When I remove the paper I have a very, very hot mug with a faint yellow image on it and no other colours.

I am using the ink that came packaged with the printer and use the driver from the disc supplied.

My question is does anyone know what I am doing wrong? Why would the different colours on the image all appear yellow on the mug? If I were to leave the mug in longer would the other colours come true?

I have attached a few pictures for you to see.

PS: Lutonbury is a family festival I hold every year for the children, I thought it would be nice to have mugs for the day.... I now have 12 ruined mugs - if it continues like this, I'll have to set up a mug smashing stall..! At least the children will like it..

[smitch6]

are you using sublimation ink?
if your using sub paper and the image looks clear and sharp on the paper it shouldn't
when sub ink prints on the paper it's really dull

[smitch6]

from looking at your printer i'd say they are the standard inks that came with it and not sub inks
although i don't have a Ricoh so can't advice what they should look like though so may be wrong
where did you get it from? and did they say it was sub ink?

[PetPals]

I've phoned the supplier and they confirmed the printer came with gel ink... not sublimation ink. They also said that Ricoh does not advise using it for dye sublimation... I've looked on this forum and many people seem to be using it for that so I'll bite the bullet and order some 'proper' sublimation ink.

Thanks... I'm so happy that my cheap mug press isn't the problem as I like the colour orange - :)

Any advice on best place to get the ink from?

[Paul]

let me disapoint you bit more ;( (sorry) you would preffer it to be a press fault as it would be cheaper to replace. Now even if you will buy sublimation ink you can not just place it to your printer now as there is a LOT of normal ink in it now. And i dont know if there is a way to take it somehow out.

[PetPals]

Oh... hadn't thought of that. Maybe I could load the new ink cartidges and then print loads of A4 photos of something so that the gel ink is used and the sub ink gets through... probably means wasted ink but I'm hoping that the contamination in the printer pipes won't be too much of a problem. Do you think it will be?

Here comes the technical question - do you know how many A4 photos approximately it would take to use up about 15ml x4 of gel ink?

[smitch6]

lol i would suggest ring BMS as they sell those printers and are quite experienced with the ricoh, plus Martin and his team are really helpful :)

[Matt Quinn]

Don't know if it's appropriate to GEL inks Or Dye-Sub inks (I'm more used to printing photographs) but...

When we change inksets on a printer we have TWO sets of empty/refillable cartridges... One we charge with iso-propyl alcohol... The other with the new ink. We're using Epson machines which don't take all that much flushing. On a machine like yours where the ink reserves are remote it might be more of an issue... We just print out a few purge images 'till the machine runs clear, change to the new ink, same again and generally all is well thereafter...

[Paul]

well... No. Coz how do you know when contamination is gone? Pipes are long in those printer so only to be 100% sure you need to go tru all new subli carts. Or 90% of them but only this clean will cost you about £150 then new set for another £150. I think you would be better off to buy new printer with subli carts and you will get warranty from your subli supplier as well.

[smitch6]

never thought of doing that Matt :)
brill idea as i have the epson B1100 and have been asked a few times to print out a large poster but because i only have sub ink i've said no as i didn't want to waste loads of ink and stuff swapping but having the iso stuff carts is a brill idea
i presume you can buy empty carts and that iso stuff to fill them?

[John G]

The cost to get your printer running would be quite a bit - bite the bullet and buy a new one from BMS. The tubes are long and as paul said - how do you know the old gel ink isn't going to contaminate the new sub gel ink.

[PetPals]

New printer ordered with correct ink.... I'll def. need to sell a few mugs now - luckily have a few friends having babies and weddings so maybe I can convince them that giving away mugs instead of those almond sweets is the way to go for 2011.

I'll post when the 1st mug comes out OK.. Can't wait..!

Thanks to all, you have probably saved me a few pounds already.

[smitch6]

glad you got it sorted hopefully
good luck with the hobby/business

it's a great feeling when the 1st one is pressed trust me, to see something amazing that you created esp if you have designed your own image as well :)
and Christenings and weddings are perfect as well for personalised products

[Matt Quinn]

never thought of doing that Matt :)
brill idea as i have the epson B1100 and have been asked a few times to print out a large poster but because i only have sub ink i've said no as i didn't want to waste loads of ink and stuff swapping but having the iso stuff carts is a brill idea
i presume you can buy empty carts and that iso stuff to fill them?


Iso - Propyl - Alcohol is a very common industrial solvent... We use it for all sorts from cleaning lenses and video heads to removing glue! You'll recognise the smell. Mixed with distilled water it's sold as tape head cleaner! And spectacle cleaner!

- A quick seach on Ebay will reveal suppliers that will sell you IPA by the gallon! Or find a local supplier of ultrasonic cleaning machinery... It's used a lot by them.

It's safe on most plastics; which is why its used so commonly in the electronics industry. - We just use standard refillable carts. But you can (and we have) flush out an entire CIS with it! And I see no reason (apart form possible airlocks - dealt with in the usual way) why you couldn't syringe the ink out of a cart, flush it through with IPA then start introducing another ink...

Another thing it's handy for is unblocking epson heads... We flood the pad the head rests on, put the cart back in the 'park' position and go home! Next morning its usually done its job!

- Very good for cleaning your glasses too!

[JSR]

They also said that Ricoh does not advise using it for dye sublimation...
There is no printer that's been designed to use dye-sublimation ink. Whether you use Ricoh or Epson printers, it doesn't matter - the manufacturer won't advise using it for ink that isn't OEM.

We don't choose between Ricoh and Epson printers based on them being the best for dye-sublimation ink, we choose between them because they're all we've got. It comes down to which square peg you want to put in which round hole.

Ideally, you'll want to budget for a second backup printer if you're serious about dye-sublimation printing.

[John G]

And I see no reason (apart form possible airlocks - dealt with in the usual way) why you couldn't syringe the ink out of a cart, flush it through with IPA then start introducing another ink...


The Ricoh is a sealed cart system with gel inks - putting the Iso through the system might do more harm than good as I think it uses a different nozzle to the epsons. When setting up the Ricohs with sub inks there is a big warning saying "Do not install original Gel carts" they wouldn't put this on for fun.

[Matt Quinn]

The Ricoh is a sealed cart system with gel inks - putting the Iso through the system might do more harm than good as I think it uses a different nozzle to the epsons. When setting up the Ricohs with sub inks there is a big warning saying "Do not install original Gel carts" they wouldn't put this on for fun.

True... Very true...

But then there are good commercial reasons for doing that sort of thing... If you sell a system as fit for a particular purpose then it needs to be just that. Whether though user-error or not 'bounce backs' cost you money. Neither Epson or Ricoh for instance actually endorse their products being used with third-party inks. And as much as that might have to do with their financial interests in selling ink cartridges, it also helps eliminate a possible source of unpredictable break downs...

Commercially, a vendor having already 'pushed the envelope' by selling the machine in an 'unofficial' configuration doesn't need any more complications in the mix!

Now; flushing a printer out with IPA is a technique I reckon would be known to many working in Gicleé or high-end photographic printing... BUT! - I have heard of woolly-brained muppets substituting all-sorts for the IPA! - I know of one idiot in Glasgow who filled his CIS with cellulose thinners and started running it through! Plastic reacts to this fluid in a very similar way that it does to that model aeroplane glue we all used as kids! - Screen wash and Windolene are other things I've heard of being used on (and wrecking) printers!

- Welcome to the Great British public! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Now; I'll put my hands up to being unfamiliar with the Ricoh - If it can only be used with Dye Sub Inks that are specially produced for it... Well; presumably there AREN'T refillable carts or a CIS available that would allow IPA to be run through them in the first place?

The key would be viscosity... IPA is water-thin, a solvent to many contaminents, a degreaser - and safe on most plastics. IF there are refillable carts for it and it can be used with standard viscosity inks then IPA will almost-certainly do it no harm...

About the only 'harm' I've ever known it to do to a piece of electronic equipment is to take the print off control panels that were made using water-soluble paints; we used it to de-brand some of the CB radios fitted to our production vehicles to make them less conspicuous!

Lets put it this way... Next time you get an injection from the Doctor they'll swab the site with 'somethuing cold'? Vaguely alcoholic smelling? 99% chance that's IPA you're being swabbed with... NOT to be inhaled excessively or ingested of course; but it's a pretty safe solvent as solvents go...

Heck they even say you can spray it on the inside of your shoes to kill the bacteria and keep athlete's foot at bay! - Softens the glue mind you! :rolleyes:

[bms]

I've phoned the supplier and they confirmed the printer came with gel ink... not sublimation ink. They also said that Ricoh does not advise using it for dye sublimation... I've looked on this forum and many people seem to be using it for that so I'll bite the bullet and order some 'proper'

Any advice on best place to get the ink from?

I find this VERY alarming. This is a supplier that is recommended in the suppliers list and then they say Ricoh does not recommend using this for sublimation and this has now cost this person a lot of money. Some suppliers ought to be audited before they are recommended and a comment like this demonstrates that this supplier doesn't know what they are talking about.

Every Ricoh printer that goes out the door from us has a big A4 print that says DON'T INSTALL THE GENUINE RICOH CARTRIDGES as the inks get sucked into the tubes and you can do up to 15 head purges to get this out which is very expensive. It would be cheaper to buy a new printer and install the SubliJet-R cartridges.

[Paul]

Martin. our list is not a "recomended list of suppliers" this is only list of suppliers that based in uk. we never recomend to use them. all we do recomend is to look around and pick the best one that suit customer needs.

any way. what supplier this is MArtin? As I can not see any one from the lis mentioned in posts :( please PM me. thank you.

[bms]

Pm sent...

[JSR]

I find this VERY alarming ... they say Ricoh does not recommend using this for sublimation and this has now cost this person a lot of money ... a comment like this demonstrates that this supplier doesn't know what they are talking about.
I'm confused. Ricoh *don't* recommend using dye-sublimation ink in their printer. In fact it's been discussed on this very forum that if you use any ink other than Ricoh in a Ricoh printer then Ricoh treat you like the pariah of the human race.

In what way was the supplier wrong to say that Ricoh don't recommend the printer for sublimation? They would be wrong to say that Ricoh *do* recommend them for sublimation (and they'd be wrong if they said the same about Epson).

There is no desktop printer that the manufacturer will recommend for sublimation printing. If that's not true, then perhaps you could name one that is recommended by the manufacturer?

[mrs maggot]

would it not be easier to remove the original carts from the box and not send them out in the first place ?? a lot of people i guess are so excited at their printer arriving they dont read the suppliers instructions, but read the ones from the printer company, in which case you would install the other inks - maybe some tape across the box saying DO NOT INSTALL ENCLOSED INKS would help a lot of people making a mistake in future

[bms]

We've considered removing these carts, but the customer has paid for them so they might as well have them and sell if they want to. We don't have any problems with the wrong carts being installed as it's made very clear not to put the genuine ones in.

If a supplier sells a Ricoh printer, say from a supplier that only sells printers then fair comment and the buyer should do their homework by knowing that the original inks don't do sublimation. However if a supplier sells a printer, mugs, mug press etc which is obviously going to be used for printing mugs and then comes back with the retort that Ricoh don't recommend their printers for sublimation printing then that's not on. That's my point. We can take a pedantic view and as a sublimation supplier say that Ricoh don't recommend sublimation ink, but that's no excuse for selling a printer with sublimation equipment and then not supplying sublimation ink to go with the printer and implying the kit is fit for purpose. I may be wrong but this is my reading of the opening post.

[Paul]

i dont think this gear was bougt as a package from one supplier. As coralgraph was mentioned i will stud up for them before OP make this more cleare. On the pics we can see signal paper, tiger mug press anf ricoh printer. Coralgraph dont sell signal paper as far as i know. They got their own coralgraph branded paper. Also they dont sell ricoh printers and tiger mug press. Also is worth of mentioning that coralgraph are not sublimation only supplier. They main business is ink and cis systems.

[JSR]

if a supplier sells a printer, mugs, mug press etc which is obviously going to be used for printing mugs and then comes back with the retort that Ricoh don't recommend their printers for sublimation printing then that's not on. That's my point. We can take a pedantic view and as a sublimation supplier say that Ricoh don't recommend sublimation ink,
It's not pedantry to tell the customer the truth. It would be irresponsible of the supplier to either say that the printer manufacturer supports the use of third-party inks or to imply by omission that this is the case.

There seems to be this malaise in the dye-sub industry to hide the fact that using these inks in a printer are not supported by printer manufacturers, in just the same way that Sawgrass are cagey about what they will or will not support when things go wrong.

The industry needs transparency when it comes to support - then perhaps more newbies will buy a package from a supplier that will ensure that they know where to go and where not to go for support. It's not wrong for a supplier to warn that the printer manufacturer doesn't recommend dye-sub inks (or, indeed, any other third party ink).


but that's no excuse for selling a printer with sublimation equipment and then not supplying sublimation ink to go with the printer and implying the kit is fit for purpose. I may be wrong but this is my reading of the opening post.
That's a different issue. If that's what happened then clearly the supplier has done wrong by supplying kit that isn't fit for purpose, and they should correct the issue without additional cost to the buyer. But they're not wrong for speaking the truth about the risk of putting third party inks in a printer that wasn't designed for them.

The OP says that he used inks that were "packaged with the printer". It could well be that, having read so many reports that this is a good printer for dye-sub, he bought it believing it came with dye-sub inks. The lack of transparency mentioned above could lead to this confusion for a new person entering the industry.

[JSR]

We've considered removing these carts, but the customer has paid for them so they might as well have them and sell if they want to. We don't have any problems with the wrong carts being installed as it's made very clear not to put the genuine ones in.
Perhaps one solution is for you to remove the cartridges and then discount the cost of the printer by the value of the OEM inks and then sell the inks yourself (you are better placed to sell inks than the buyer). That would reduce the package cost for the buyer, reduce the likelihood of installing wrong inks, and everyone is happy.

You could then sell the printer package saying it's "been adapted for dye-sub use and, as an authorised supplier, the customer will get support for any printer faults from Sawgrass if they go through you". Your sales will increase as a result, and the buyer will know where they stand. Everyone wins.

[bms]

Perhaps one solution is for you to remove the cartridges and then discount the cost of the printer by the value of the OEM inks and then sell the inks yourself (you are better placed to sell inks than the buyer). That would reduce the package cost for the buyer, reduce the likelihood of installing wrong inks, and everyone is happy.

You could then sell the printer package saying it's "been adapted for dye-sub use and, as an authorised supplier, the customer will get support for any printer faults from Sawgrass if they go through you". Your sales will increase as a result, and the buyer will know where they stand. Everyone wins.

Could do, but we don't really have any custom for genuine Ricoh cartridges apart from teying to sell these through Ebay. We have a couple of sets in stock so maybe we'll give this a go and see what figure they fetch in the open market. It may reduce the cost a little, but as we already sell the printer in the package at below cost then this may not really affect the buy price greatly. Let's see...

[JSR]

Could do, but we don't really have any custom for genuine Ricoh cartridges apart from teying to sell these through Ebay. We have a couple of sets in stock so maybe we'll give this a go and see what figure they fetch in the open market. It may reduce the cost a little, but as we already sell the printer in the package at below cost then this may not really affect the buy price greatly. Let's see...

There must be a lot of OEM cartridges kicking around in people's back rooms. I have the OEM cartridges from my Brother DCP-195C still wrapped up because, like the Ricoh, there's no benefit to putting them in first. I did think of putting them in my other Brother printer (I think they'll fit), but I've put third-party regular dye ink in that (a tenner for 400ml, can't beat it) and the 100ml refillables won't be empty for ages.

[PetPals]

[QUOTE=JSR;21796]
The OP says that he used inks that were "packaged with the printer". It could well be that, having read so many reports that this is a good printer for dye-sub, he bought it believing it came with dye-sub inks. QUOTE]

Yes, this is more or less what happened - I read all the paper work that came from the supplier / manufacturer and assumed that it came with sublimation ink. I wouldn't blame them though, it's a supplier that sells many types of printers and does not specialise in sublimation printers.

I could have avoided the mistake by making a quick call and double checking with them - would be interesting to know if they have had other customers that have done the same thing...

...also really impressed that my little orange mug press was recognised by someone and even has a name... TIGER - I think Kitty is probably more approriate though.

[PetPals]

Just in case you're wondering, the 1st Ricoh printer was bought from Printerland.co.uk - but like I said - I think this was my own mistake - not thiers, although I like the idea of a warning about using the supplied cartridges included in the box.

I will try to clean it with the IPA fluid and will just box it up and hope that it works as a backup if ever I need it.

[bms]

Thanks for the clarification. :)

[John G]

the 1st Ricoh printer was bought from Printerland.co.uk

Well that explains it - Printerland don't sell sublimation inks.

There would be no need for them to put a sticker or warning leaflet into the printer packaging to say not to install standard carts - they only sell printers for inkjet/laser, not sublimation.

[mrs maggot]

true enough john, i just thought it might be useful for the suppliers that do, coralgraph and BMS on here if they did - even just a sticker on the outside of the printer box - some people do get terribly over exicited and install things before reading the instructions (they are normally male, as women tend to read - so they can then spend the next month saying "if only you had read the instrucitons lol)

[Paul]

why not put sticker right on carts cover on the printer? no one would miss that :)

[PetPals]

Received new Ricoh (included warnings about using the incorrect ink cartridges) and all is OK now. Printed a few mugs and they came out surprisingly professional looking - so much so, have just received an order to design and create 120 for a friend - only charging her £3.00 a mug but at least that should pay for my printer mistake..!

Thanks everyone for the help and advice.

PS: Mrs Magott - I'm not male so apologise for letting the superior side down, and for any other silly mistakes I might make in the future - I'm sure there will be many..!!

[mrs maggot]

only just seen this, well done on getting the order, 120 mugs is a great order (must be the female bit lol)