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View Full Version : Dark Jet printing and the cost of ink !



mrs maggot
18-12-2009, 10:28 AM
we are having some great results with darkjet using an epson printer with durabrite inks i was a bit sceptical at first, so i did a test print on an old shirt and then put it in with every wash load at home for two weeks - and i mean every wash load, no fade, no peel so i have been happily doing some more printing.

the cartridges are £30 for a set of 4 - and individual colours are £10 each - which can make your eyes pop !!

there are other "replacement cartridges" available but im guessing they will not have the same properties as the durabrite ink.

has anyone else used replacement ink ? im not sure i can rig the printer up to a CISS

AJLA
18-12-2009, 10:50 AM
What printer are you using Mrs Maggot?
I don't know if this is their thing but try a company called Mandev, very helpful and i've used them for many types of inks and flushing systems, maybe worth checking them out online and giving Les a call (a very knowledgable chap)

mrs maggot
18-12-2009, 02:47 PM
hiya its only a small sx100

thanks for the info

Flash
18-12-2009, 08:29 PM
I've tried ALL the 'Dark' papers from All the suppliers here in the U.K. I did extensive testing throughout January/February '09 and nothing I produced I would have sold commercially :cry: The 'light' Transfer Papers vary considerably but I have found one or two of these which I do sell ;)
I've resigned myself to the fact that to produce 'full-colour' prints on dark shirts I am going to need to spend some serious money in 2010. I've yet to make a decision what I will be investing my money into it's either going to be a Roland Versacamm or a D.T.G machine.

Phil

mrs maggot
19-12-2009, 12:44 PM
what problem did you have with it then phil, ive been happy with those test ones i have done so far, we have also done a lot for a couple of clubs and they get abused washwise and so far no problems ??

Flash
19-12-2009, 01:16 PM
what problem did you have with it then phil, ive been happy with those test ones i have done so far, we have also done a lot for a couple of clubs and they get abused washwise and so far no problems ??
Where do I start http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png
Firstly it's not cost effective to produce Transfers with Original 'DuraBrite' Inks[/*:m:2m09d8aj]
Any unprinted areas remain white which doesn't look good on a black shirt.[/*:m:2m09d8aj]
Eventually one of your customers will put your Transfer printed shirt into the tumble drier, even if you stipulate they should not! Your reputation WILL still suffer![/*:m:2m09d8aj]
My theory is that until I can print a commercially saleable 'full-colour' image on a Dark shirt that will take the above tests I will leave well alone. My reputation is worth more than a quick buck!

Phil

pressfx
19-12-2009, 08:05 PM
I've tried ALL the 'Dark' papers from All the suppliers here in the U.K. I did extensive testing throughout January/February '09 and nothing I produced I would have sold commercially :cry: The 'light' Transfer Papers vary considerably but I have found one or two of these which I do sell ;)
I've resigned myself to the fact that to produce 'full-colour' prints on dark shirts I am going to need to spend some serious money in 2010. I've yet to make a decision what I will be investing my money into it's either going to be a Roland Versacamm or a D.T.G machine.

Phil

Been a long time since I looked at DTG.....I'm assuming they have sorted out all the problems with white ink if you are considering buying a machine?

Flash
19-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Been a long time since I looked at DTG.....I'm assuming they have sorted out all the problems with white ink if you are considering buying a machine?
Look again then my friend I think you will find things have changed ;) I believe that clogging of the heads is still a problem if not run 24/7 :( This is not practical for me, I like my sleep :D
It's going to be a tricky decision as the two methods (versacamm & D.T.G) both have their Pro's & Con's. When your looking at investing this kind of money in the business you need more Pro's than Con's.

Phil

pressfx
20-12-2009, 01:42 AM
Been a long time since I looked at DTG.....I'm assuming they have sorted out all the problems with white ink if you are considering buying a machine?
Look again then my friend I think you will find things have changed ;) I believe that clogging of the heads is still a problem if not run 24/7 :( This is not practical for me, I like my sleep :D
It's going to be a tricky decision as the two methods (versacamm & D.T.G) both have their Pro's & Con's. When your looking at investing this kind of money in the business you need more Pro's than Con's.

Phil

I'll get my reading glasses on!....sorry for going off topic but I'll be very interested to hear (see) the route you take (both pretty expensive!) look forward to your experiences either way :lol:
Cheers
Rod.

Stitch Up
20-12-2009, 10:11 AM
I looked into DTG printing about 18 months ago. Visited a few demonstrations and to be honest, I wasn't impressed.

The capital cost was far to high
The speed (or lack thereof) was poor
The whole process was fidly
The final output didn't impress me

The other issue that concerned me was the availability of spare parts and service engineers.


We've already seen one big player in the DTG market go bust (see the T-Shirt forums).

Not yet for me.

mrs maggot
20-12-2009, 07:48 PM
my garment care always tells people NOT to tumble dry, sometimes i have vinyl shirts popped back to me, where they have crinkled the vinyl after tumble drying it for too long or too hot, i re press them for them.

so far i have not had any dark jet bought back, the designs i use on them dont have any white on them, normally i ensure they have a nice wide black border so any cutting errors dont show.

i kow someone who uses them extensively on babywear with no problems

we get normally 25/30 sheets per ink set, normally the black will go part way say after 15/17 sheets or so.

not done any a4 size yet, we tend to do a5 or smaller with them

bms
20-12-2009, 10:25 PM
You'll have to stay with the genuine inks for this product as the vast majority of compatible cartridges use dye based ink rather than pigement inks (which is what the durabright ink is). If you do go for a CIS then pigmented inks are available which can be used in this printer. We used to supply the inks for the Epson 4800/7600/10600 printers and sourced our inks from image-specialists.com in the US. We still have several litres of this ink in stock but no longer actively sell this. The inkjet dark product is pretty good for the purpose it serves although we call it printable flex.

Flash
20-12-2009, 10:54 PM
You'll have to stay with the genuine inks for this product as the vast majority of compatible cartridges use dye based ink rather than pigement inks (which is what the durabright ink is). If you do go for a CIS then pigmented inks are available which can be used in this printer. We used to supply the inks for the Epson 4800/7600/10600 printers and sourced our inks from image-specialists.com in the US. We still have several litres of this ink in stock but no longer actively sell this. The inkjet dark product is pretty good for the purpose it serves although we call it printable flex.
Hi Martin,
Is media printed with 'Solvent Inks' more durable than 'Printable Flex' printed with Pigment Inks? What i'm talking about here is the Roland Versacamm used for decorating 'Dark' garments.

Phil

bms
21-12-2009, 09:02 AM
Hi Phil,
I think they are considered comparable. The Versacamm is designed for that type of work and the printable flex is a work around for use with standard printers (using the durabright inks). The printable flex is thicker than the material I've seen printed on with the Versacamm, but washable up to 80 degrees C (standard precautions of reverse iron, don't tumble dry, don't bleach etc). For those without a laser printer or a Versacamm then it offers a decent alternative.

mrs maggot
21-12-2009, 11:57 AM
we have done over 100 t's now with the durabright on the darkjet paper, currently using a paper from dorotape - which we like slightly thicker than some of the others, target was the one we had before, am also about to trial one from the transfer press.

i have 1 sample t - which i print new product onto, i normally print what it is & a date onto the sample and then this goes into the family wash whenever its being done. i know its not too scientific - but it serves us well to see how the different ones are holding up

also forgot to say - a red laundry marker putting a cross over the tumble dry logo on the t shirt - another 2 seconds work - but worth it

Flash
24-12-2009, 07:57 PM
If January/Feruary are anything like last year i'm going to look into this again.
mrs maggot, what brand of darkjet paper are you using?

Phil

mrs maggot
24-12-2009, 08:28 PM
i dont have a inkjet printer, so i use the D-print from dorotape has a grid backing, so never any mistakes printing, and fairly easy to peel the backing, not as prone to curling as some, and give a very nice fiish dorotape link (http://dorotape.co.uk/khxc/gbu0-prodshow/DPDARK.html) they are only 10 mins away so i can save a bit on postage. I have used Target also before with good results get some samples from both and try, as ive said before, i test print, putting details on of what paper it is and date etc, then wash and wash and wash again :)

mrs maggot
31-12-2009, 02:19 PM
well i am taking the plunge and ordering these from CISS solutions, they only use pigment ink so at £39.99 for a set of replacement cartridges & 100ml of each ink, i think its worth a gamble, after all thats what a replacement set of cartridges costs - each one only holds 7ml, i will let you know how i get on
http://www.continuous-ink-systems.co.uk/images/P1020067.JPG

mrs maggot
05-01-2010, 01:35 PM
well it arrived today, and we have had fun and games, as they only send out dye ink with it, they have made a mistake which Keith has accepted, he is sending out the pigment ink bottles and i am paying the difference, he is also altering the website description so no one else has the mistake, - cant say fairer than that

chongsta
16-01-2010, 06:42 PM
Hia,

I have a Versacamm sp300-v. Ive had it 4 years now and its been a dream and paid itself off a number of times now. Theyre actually quite hard to get second hand refurbs of them because its such a good printer/cutter. I was just about to get rid of mine about 8 months ago and go with a dedicated printer for my canvas prints, im so glad i didnt now!

I bought mine new from Grafityp UK, incredible customer service and very very friendly people. They have a wide stock of printable vinlys etc. I go for the Sub Block printable, its for dyed garments and is quite thick but takes prints like a dream, easily peelable too. If your doing footie kits with stripes on them, this stuff errrr blocks the stripes lol.

Recently i too have been looking at DTG and i agree that the "white" issue looks like its been sorted, also the prices have dropped like mad, not quite at £50 quid stage but certainly at affordable prices compared to even a few years ago of £15k you can now get them for as little as £3-4k.

Im seriously thinking of getting one out of my christmas sales. I shudder to think how my sales wouldve been with a DTG! *brrrrrrr*

The T-Jet 1200 is taking my eye at the mo' - If i get it from china! well cheaper.

If you need any info on the versacamm let me know.

cheers
Dave