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Justin
19-12-2009, 09:20 PM
Hi everyone,

I started this forum for you so please give this thread a little thought and tell me what you think! PM if you'd prefer.

What would you like to see on the forum? We've discussed a guides/how to section before, print times etc. and also an extended gallery.

How would you feel about paying a small membership fee to allow access to restricted information areas/certain forum sections? I'm not saying I want to charge but have to look at ways to bring in a little revenue if we're to progress further........

Advertising, how would you feel about the forum having banner adverts from suppliers? These would be in the space to the right of the DSF logo. I'm not keen on advertising but have to look at every avenue, especially if it means no membership charge :-) Adverts would be specifically related to the forum, not just general stuff.

I'll probably run a few polls to get a quick straw poll.

Please let me have your feedback. I'm very pleased with the direction of the forum but have to look to the future.

Any ideas for increasing membership would also be appreciated.

Cheers for now,
Justin http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_jokercolor.png

mrs maggot
19-12-2009, 10:13 PM
im the newest one on here, but i am involved as admin in a few websites which are motorbike related.

on one, we dont have a membership, we open the comunity chest when we need funds to pay for the next years hosting, we normally limit what members give so a max donation of say £5 this works fine, we dont have any restricted areas, and the information is free to everyone - membership of around 700 active members, we have support from the manufacturer, who regularly ask our members opinions, but they do NOT contribute to the site, as we felt this could lead to complications.

on another one, there is a yearly membership fee, which gives you access to certain areas - at present there are over 750 members each paying £6 per year - its about to go into self destruct mode, as members are starting to ask where the money is going - me included- it certainly does not all go on the forum - inner bickering has started, and a break away group started.

why not approach some of the dye sub companies for banner advertising, im sure this would bring in enough revenue for what you are looking at doing. you can after all set a limit to who is able to look at locked parts of the forum, so you dont get people trawling for information and never coming back, perhaps a new registration period, or 10 posts until you get full access that type of thing, but at the 50th new post asking for pressing times/temps - you may find that an open to all forum is the way to go.

as for increasing membership - if each person on the forum now, googled a certain key word - given by admin then each could send a note to the "contact us" details on websites.

links to some of the suppliers will also increase site traffic

sorry i have a bit to say on the subject, but having seen one site go from hero to zero and another one from zero to hero - i know which way i would be going.

Justin
19-12-2009, 10:18 PM
That's great, many thanks for your feedback. I'd sooner keep it free for members if at all possible and would probably prefer the banner ads to this, as long as the content was strictly controlled.

Any feedback regarding the look and feel of the forum would also help.

We've not done anything to spread the word yet other than word of mouth, I think once we get advertising we'll really start to push forward.
I had considered putting an ad in the Printwear & Promotion magazine but it's costly. Just need to look at getting to as many targeted folk as we can.

Thanks again,
Justin :-)

Flash
19-12-2009, 10:32 PM
Here's my 2 pence worth http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_jokercolor.png
Before I do.......I know nothing about running a Forum and know I wouldn't have the time to!

1) Charging for Membership = Suicide
Restrict the informative sections of the Forum to 'Registered' Users is a great idea and should be done IMO
2) You would do well to target this Forum at a wider audience including all methods of garment decoration & promotional printing.
3) I agree with mrs maggot about getting the Industry to fund the Forum and personally would have no problem with banner ads.

If this helps in any way i'm glad I answered!

Phil

Justin
19-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Cheers Phil, appreciate your comments.

The last thing I wanted to do was charge for membership which is why I wanted to look at other ways to raise the revenue. I've said from the start that I wanted it to remain free for registered users.

I will be looking at expanding into other related areas but want to restructure the layout a little to make the baord clearer and possibly in sections.

Banner ads may well be the way to go, just need to speak with the suppliers to see about this.

Thanks again,
Justin

castlegategiftcreations
19-12-2009, 11:28 PM
I think the forum is great but agree that charging a membership may put some people off. Supplier banners is a good idea. How about some overseas suppliers?

I know that I have certainly shown interest in other suppliers sites and products. I know that the postage can be a problem with them but you never know - if it helps them gain some more customers then they may be a little nicer with their overseas pricing (probably talking rubbish here but ahh well). This could also help with more people joining the forum as overseas suppliers could inform their customers of it.


Sorry if i am talking c**p but you did ask for feedback.

Keep up the good work guys - paying for membership or not I am here to stay!!!

Stitch Up
19-12-2009, 11:46 PM
The bottom line is that to run a forum costs. The more popular the forum gets the more it costs.

We all enjoy this forum and gain a great deal from it. We can't expect one person to fund it unless of course he happens to be a life coach - I don't think Justin's a life coach?

So, how best to share the cost? Always going to be a thorny subject with differing views and opinions.

Personally, I don't think charging for membership or restricting sections is a go'er just now, it'll put off new members and that's the last thing we want.

My idea for now would be to add a DONATION button allowing those who enjoy the forum to voluntarily show their gratitude. If this doesn't work, then we could look at other options.

John

Justin
20-12-2009, 12:04 AM
Thanks guys, most members seem to agree on the advertising/membership which is good.

There is a DONATE button available on here, I may enable it until such time we find other revenue streams.

Cheers,
Justin :-)

JSR
20-12-2009, 12:23 AM
As I've mentioned before, I run a forum but I'm fortunate enough to be able to run it off the back of my own server. It's also not inundated with hundreds of members clogging up bandwidth. As a result, costs are so negligible that it's not even worth the question.

Personally, I'm against banners and advertising. On the one hand, once you start advertising you lose any attempt at impartiality. Let's say you get revenue from "Supplier X" and someone has a bad experience which they post about - well, that supplier will demand you delete the thread or lose your revenue. Very soon everyone's tippy-toeing around, afraid to speak their mind for fear that the forum will disappear under legal threats and lost revenue.

Also, I use browser tricks and adblockers so that I don't see ads. I'd imagine many clued-in people do the same. Most banners won't even get seen.

The best option would seem to be the voluntary "donate" button for a few months and see how it goes? If it's "PayPal", I'll chip in. If not, probably not... I would recommend you word it correctly, though. The last time I donated to something they said "We'd rather 20 people donate $5 than 5 people decide they can't afford $20". So I donated. After donating, I received a "thank-you" email from the site owner asking for my input. Okay, I didn't hear back from him after I replied, but it was a nice touch.

Perhaps you could also put up a "target" and "amount raised" page so that everyone knows if the funds are low? The last thing you'd want is for people to think it's a bottomless pit and get disillusioned about donating. Some years back, I was a member of a forum that asked for donations to pay for server costs. Everyone chipped in with various amounts, but there were forever posts about "we don't have enough money, and the site will close". It didn't close but it did change. It turned out that the site owner used the funds to pay for 10 years of the domain name (in the days when they were expensive) and paid almost nothing to the server. Within 2 years, the site had been taken over by someone else with the domain name acting merely as a pointer towards the new site. Talk about feeling ripped off..! I know that wouldn't happen here, but I'm sure we all have scare stories that make us hesitant to donate unless we're kept fully clued-in.

There's no easy answer to the question of how to pay for a forum, which is why I only started up mine when I knew I could do it for next to zero cost.

Justin
20-12-2009, 12:31 AM
Cheers for that JSR, nice to get an opinion form a different angle. It certainly won't hurt to put the DONATE button up, I'll check this out further.

Justin :-)

Paul
20-12-2009, 01:48 AM
I think the forum is great but agree that charging a membership may put some people off. Supplier banners is a good idea. How about some overseas suppliers?

I know that I have certainly shown interest in other suppliers sites and products. I know that the postage can be a problem with them but you never know - if it helps them gain some more customers then they may be a little nicer with their overseas pricing (probably talking rubbish here but ahh well). This could also help with more people joining the forum as overseas suppliers could inform their customers of it.


Sorry if i am talking c**p but you did ask for feedback.

Keep up the good work guys - paying for membership or not I am here to stay!!!
I think this is good idea. this forum is in Uk but is for ALL PEOPLE! as sublimation in every country is this same.

I agree with liitle add on top.


donation button is grat idea. well done John!

John G
20-12-2009, 10:27 AM
Hi All,
Well I must be in the minority as I think charging for certain levels of memership is a good idea. Website forums like this don't run themselves for nothing - the free ones are generally good at the start but don't last long as they are labour intensive and soon the love gets lost a little. I'm not saying to charge on basic membership, as we need as much traffic as possible, but certain levels, tutorials, special offers, file swapping threads, pm'ing and members info/websites should be limited to paying members only. Look how many members are registered then look how many have actually shown there websites. Alot of folk could come on here and get ideas for free, stealing the hard work someone has put in to generate a new product. I think thats why only a few have bothered to show their www. (http://www.) and paid membership would sort this problem out.

As for knowing where the money goes to - I think that's a no brainer. This forum should be run like a business, your customers don't ask where the money goes to when they buy a t'shirt/mug etc do they.

Regarding advertising on the forum: I hate it with a vengance unless its related to the actual forum and subli printing itself. A better way would be to charge all the sublimation suppliers, that you have listed, for advertising their websites and services. Give them a small space on the index page to advertise their products, or monthly special offers, and a link to there site. I'm sure that they'd be interested in backing this forum with a little bit of revenue - afterall, we all buy subli materials, ink etc so where better to advertise.

Not struck on the donation button - asking for a donation is asking for trouble. You might get a few quid - you might get a few hundred or thousand quid but to keep this website running, and not only surviving but making it profitable, you need to know exactly how much money to generate. What happens in 10 years time - you might have different ideas on life, your family, or even your business which would make running this forum a chore rather than a pleasure.

Cheers John

Paul
20-12-2009, 12:15 PM
As for knowing where the money goes to - I think that's a no brainer. This forum should be run like a business, your customers don't ask where the money goes to when they buy a t'shirt/mug etc do they.

Cheers John
sorry John :( I can not agree with that. do you know why we all in here? becose last "subli forum admin" decided to run forum for busines. and we did not like it. as lot of us post somethink like 1000 posts so someone can make money on "OUR" knolage! not his. on us!
I hope this make sens.


Paul

JSR
20-12-2009, 12:19 PM
As for knowing where the money goes to - I think that's a no brainer. This forum should be run like a business, your customers don't ask where the money goes to when they buy a t'shirt/mug etc do they.... not only surviving but making it profitable,
I'm not sure I'd like the idea of the forum being run as a business and for a profit. As soon as that happens, we stop being members and become customers.

I didn't join this forum to be a customer, I joined to be a member and to help out my fellow members whenever I can. If the forum turns into a for-profits business, I'm out of here.

If someone's making money out of the forum, then you start on the slippery slope of members saying "I'm not going to help you solve that problem unless you pay me." And you could see why that would happen. Solutions and answers from experienced members will suddenly become a commodity of which only the forum owner is making profits from. Why should people give their time and resources freely if someone's making money off their good intentions?


What happens in 10 years time - you might have different ideas on life, your family, or even your business which would make running this forum a chore rather than a pleasure.
At the moment, Justin and the mods run this forum because they'd originally offered to take over the PPP forum when it was dying, but they got the cold shoulder treatment. If it stopped being fun in a few years time, then I'm sure there'd be someone from the "current generation" at the time who'd be willing to take it over. If it's not a business, it'll be easy to hand it over to someone else if that time comes. If it becomes a business then you end up having someone running the site who does it only for the money. When the pleasure goes out of it, they'd hang on to the forum for as long as the money keeps coming in, but would do nothing to help the forum or its members.

When the bottom line is money, creativity and enthusiasm dies at the hands of the accountant. For, if the forum makes x% profit but, by putting it on the cheapest slowest lousiest server in existence it could make three times the profit, then that's what the business sense would have the moneymaker doing. We'd all still be paying the same money, but we'd get a reduced service for the privilege.

When it all becomes about money, how soon before "more money could be made by selling everyone's email address"..?

In short, if this becomes a profit-making business, you won't see me for dust.

This is all just my two-penneth, of course. I'm probably in the minority with this opinion. 8)

JSR
20-12-2009, 12:22 PM
As for knowing where the money goes to - I think that's a no brainer. This forum should be run like a business, your customers don't ask where the money goes to when they buy a t'shirt/mug etc do they.

Cheers John
sorry John :( I can not agree with that. do you know why we all in here? becose last "subli forum admin" decided to run forum for busines. and we did not like it. as lot of us post somethink like 1000 posts so someone can make money on "OUR" knolage! not his. on us!
I hope this make sens.

Paul
I couldn't have put it better myself.

What put me off "the previous forum" was the lack of transparency. It seemed like we never knew what was going on. And now the site's been gone for weeks.

Paul
20-12-2009, 12:30 PM
[quote="JSRThis is all just my two-penneth, of course. I'm probably in the minority with this opinion. 8)[/quote]

I dont think so mate ;)


I would agree with little site linked to forum with times guides and some user templates for small fee. but I mean small fee. i dont know.. maybe £1 for a year??

we should not run this forum for profit!
we can get some suppliers have links on this site so instad for money they can pay for forum bandwith etc... i dont know... let us know what you think...

JSR
20-12-2009, 12:42 PM
This is all just my two-penneth, of course. I'm probably in the minority with this opinion. 8)

I dont think so mate ;)


I would agree with little site linked to forum with times guides and some user templates for small fee. but I mean small fee. i dont know.. maybe £1 for a year??

we should not run this forum for profit!
we can get some suppliers have links on this site so instad for money they can pay for forum bandwith etc... i dont know... let us know what you think...
Yes, thinking about it some more, if someone signs up and pays their money to a business-oriented forum then they'd expect something in return. They'd post a question and, if an answer isn't forthcoming immediately, they'd say "hey, I've paid my dues, you're raking in the profit, why won't you answer my question?" They'd make demands and possibly sue those they've paid money to for not solving their problem.

It's not a support forum or a business platform, it's just a bunch of likeminded people who are willing to share their experiences with others. It's one thing for everyone to dip into their pockets and pay a quid or two in order to ensure that Justin isn't out-of-pocket, but it's quite another for everyone to be the butt-end of a cash-cow.

Paul
20-12-2009, 12:50 PM
100% agree with you JSR!

John G
20-12-2009, 01:06 PM
:D thought that might stir things up a little. That's what's great about forums, everyones got there own opinions - and are entitled to them too.

Running the forum non profit - In my opinion it just doesn't work. Like I said a few years down the line priorities change and the forum runs to a stop. Other like minded people, from the forum, take it on and think they can run it better but soon find out what they've let themselves in for - then someone else takes it on and it continues to get run down to the ground. A paid for forum makes it worthwhile for the people that run it/moderate it - it also keeps them fresh and creative and make the forum evolve.

Why would people sue if they didn't get the right answers after paying to be members :shock: its a forum for likeminded people not a paid for answering service. You get this kind of info with your inks and subli supplies - that you pay for.

A small donation of £1 wouldn't even pay for the hosting never mind the upgrades in software/hardware over the years and the running costs involved with keeping a successful forum up on the internet.

Cheers John

Paul
20-12-2009, 01:20 PM
A small donation of £1 wouldn't even pay for the hosting never mind the upgrades in software/hardware over the years and the running costs involved with keeping a successful forum up on the internet.

Cheers John

so if £1 wont be enough for 74 members forum we can place donation buttom on the bottom so you can chuck extra £100 ;) and others can too ;)


regards

Paul

John G
20-12-2009, 01:29 PM
According to the member list there are 50 members - £50 doesn't go a long way and certainly doesn't cover the cost of buying a domain name, hosting, broadband, website upkeep, advertising, google ads etc.

Yes I would be interested in paying a fee, not £100, thats just being greedy - but a membership fee that would let me view certain levels of the forum and gain valuable info/swap files with other fee paying members.

Cheers John

Just noticed an extra page on the members list - still 70 odd quid doesn't go far.

Paul
20-12-2009, 01:34 PM
yep. I agree. it does not go far. but if there is more people like you who is more then happy to pay for mambership then why not give donation. how many members we already got you think will be happy to pay for membership??

JSR
20-12-2009, 01:37 PM
:D thought that might stir things up a little. That's what's great about forums, everyones got there own opinions - and are entitled to them too.
That's true. The more we discuss the options, the more everyone will know the reasons behind the eventual decision. More transparency.


Why would people sue if they didn't get the right answers after paying to be members :shock: its a forum for likeminded people not a paid for answering service. You get this kind of info with your inks and subli supplies - that you pay for.
I've seen people join forums in the past because they have a problem and, within two hours of not getting an answer, they put on a right stroppy post. A moderator then comes in to try and calm them down, pointing out that it's not a paid-for service and that members reply if they have an answer at a time that suits them. That's fine if the forum is free, but if that member has just paid in order to post their question, they're not going to be placated so easily.

The new member will have paid their money, but no one here is being paid to solve their problem, so they may not get the help that they believed they just paid for. Immediately, the forum and the site gets a bad reputation with the member telling everyone and anyone that "DSF is a rip-off. They take your money, then refuse to help. Stay away from that bunch of shysters!"


A small donation of £1 wouldn't even pay for the hosting never mind the upgrades in software/hardware over the years and the running costs involved with keeping a successful forum up on the internet.
This is why I suggested there should be a "target" and "amount raised" page so that everyone knows if the tally is falling short. Admittedly, we would all have to trust the forum owner to post the correct figures but it would be better than nothing. If we know the target up-front, we'd have a better understanding of how much to donate.

If all 74 members pay £10, making £740 in total, and the cost is only £120, I'd feel like we're being ripped off. But if 74 members pay £1 and the tally falls short by £50, then I'd be more than happy to pay another quid or two. Until we know what the costs are, everyone will assume that enough people have already paid. For me, I'm happy to put in a fiver and it won't bother me if the next guy puts in just a quid.

Personally, I'm not 100% against a "paid-for membership" system but, as I've posted, there are just wayyy too many negatives to make it work well. It'd be on a downward spiral from day one. A donation system means that the future of the forum is in the hands of the members, while a paid-for membership scheme means that the future of the forum is in the hands of one person.

Paul
20-12-2009, 01:46 PM
If all 74 members pay £10, making £740 in total, and the cost is only £120, I'd feel like we're being ripped off. But if 74 members pay £1 and the tally falls short by £50, then I'd be more than happy to pay another quid or two. Until we know what the costs are, everyone will assume that enough people have already paid. For me, I'm happy to put in a fiver and it won't bother me if the next guy puts in just a quid.

Personally, I'm not 100% against a "paid-for membership" system but, as I've posted, there are just wayyy too many negatives to make it work well. It'd be on a downward spiral from day one. A donation system means that the future of the forum is in the hands of the members, while a paid-for membership scheme means that the future of the forum is in the hands of one person.

thats what I was talking about. You all can not forget forum is for all! not only for admins. so If you think wee need few £££ and buy new script etc... donate then. or contact admin or mods.

John G
20-12-2009, 01:54 PM
I don't think anybody is going to join and pay for a forum membership to get one question answered - thats why I said different membership levels with free joining.

Questions regarding times/temps are answered for free when you buy your inks/subli supplies - other answers can be found for free on google. This forum has helped me as a newbie but i have contributed info on other subject freely too.

There are 74 members - 18 have never posted yet :shock: 29 have under 10 posts - add these together you have 47 potential members that, after getting their question answered might never come back to the forum. That is well over half of your member list that might not exist after a month or so.

I'm not saying all 47 members are like this, but if they are, what - if anything, do they contribute to this forum.

Cheers John

JSR
20-12-2009, 02:02 PM
I don't think anybody is going to join and pay for a forum membership to get one question answered - thats why I said different membership levels with free joining.

Questions regarding times/temps are answered for free when you buy your inks/subli supplies - other answers can be found for free on google. This forum has helped me as a newbie but i have contributed info on other subject freely too.

There are 74 members - 18 have never posted yet :shock: 29 have under 10 posts - add these together you have 47 potential members that, after getting their question answered might never come back to the forum. That is well over half of your member list that might not exist after a month or so.

I'm not saying all 47 members are like this, but if they are, what - if anything, do they contribute to this forum.

Cheers John
Well if, out of 74 members, only 29 are posting, then clearly the bandwidth and web-space demands aren't that high - so the costs associated to the forum won't be that high either. Domain name costs £5 a year, a bit of cheap web-space for £30 a year. Job done for less than £40.

I'm interested in your idea of "different membership levels". How do you envisage that working? Some kind of "value-added" service that paid-for members get? If so, what kind of things did you have in mind?

Justin
20-12-2009, 02:14 PM
Some good feedback here guys and differing opinions.

Firstly, I have no intention of running the forum for any profit. Every penny raised would be used to run and enhance the forum. I run the forum for pleasure and have no intention of running it as a business.

My personal thoughts are that I don't want members to have to pay anything towards the running if at all possible. That said, we do need to find a way to make sure folk don't join up and never contribute. If i can raise funding other ways I will but membership may well be a must, we'll see :-)

The forum works perfectly well as it is for the time being but as we attract more members and start new sections of information etc. we will need to change things.

I will sit down and work out the possible associated costs, any help you can give on this please PM me.

I will start a poll so that members can quickly show their opinions.

Justin :-)

JSR
20-12-2009, 02:17 PM
I will sit down and work out the possible associated costs, any help you can give on this please PM me.
What kind of help do you need?

Justin
20-12-2009, 02:19 PM
Any ideas on the best platforms etc. I have a good idea but open to advice. Any other associated costs.

Suggested PM so that we can keep this thread for others to voice opinions.

Cheers,
Justin

John G
20-12-2009, 02:59 PM
JSR, don't think you can host a members forum for £30.00 per year - it costs that for a basic website.

Regarding different membership levels:
1st level - Registering for free - allows access to forum/chit chat/printpress info, question/answer. No member profiles or pm's

2nd level - As above but with tutorials given by paid members + pm's

3rd level - As above but with file swapping, design help and member profiles.

All above now irrevalent as its going to be free to all.

JSR
20-12-2009, 04:03 PM
JSR, don't think you can host a members forum for £30.00 per year - it costs that for a basic website.
I don't see why not. A basic 3GB of webspace from Easyspace costs £2.50 per month (£31.05 pa). Bung the free YaBB on there, and you're ready to go. If membership increases or bandwidth proves to be a problem, then it'd be time to look for a more capable package but it doesn't make sense to put the cart before the horse.


Regarding different membership levels:
1st level - Registering for free - allows access to forum/chit chat/printpress info, question/answer. No member profiles or pm's

2nd level - As above but with tutorials given by paid members + pm's

3rd level - As above but with file swapping, design help and member profiles.
If this was put into practice, I don't know that many people would go for paid-for membership anyway. Experienced members wouldn't need the tutorials, so they wouldn't pay for them - and it'd be a negative if those members who contributed would have to be paid. And the 3rd level wouldn't necessarily work because people would contact each other my email or off-site. I can't see any money being made like that.

Also, if members provide tutorials and one turns out to be wrong, causing a paid member to ruin his work and waste his stock, who's responsibility would it be?


All above now irrevalent as its going to be free to all.
I don't think that's what Justin said. He said he will seek other ways but that "membership may well be a must, we'll see". The more pros and cons that can be discussed, the better idea he'll have for the future.

Justin
20-12-2009, 04:08 PM
That's right. I would very much like to keep it free, that was the initial aim. If I can run the forum with no financial input i will (an have thus far) but if we don't go the advertising route and costs start to increase we need to look at alternatives. I have a completely open mind at this stage and debating it here really helps.

Justin :-)

John G
20-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Hi JSR,
The levels suggested above do work - I'm a member of a sign based forum, along with Justin, that has this structure in place and it does work. It weeds out the serious from the members that only post once or twice and never post again. It is also a very informative site and has a large member base. Because it is a paid for forum it has some clout in the industry and suppliers take it more serious offering good incentives and trade discounts to paid members. I don't think this would happen, on an ongoing bases, if this site continued to be free.

Justin: I hope you are successful in running this as a free site, it's great to be here and its an excellent site.

Had a good morning debating this and also Newcastle United won which has also made my weekend.

Cheers John

Justin
20-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Cheers John, good weekend all round for you! I'm no longer a member of the sign forum I'm afraid, I was booted off!

Justin ;-)

John G
20-12-2009, 04:43 PM
:lol: didn't know that - but you have to admit, it does work. :D

Justin
20-12-2009, 04:45 PM
Yes, the look and feel of the forum is great :-)

JSR
20-12-2009, 04:45 PM
Hi JSR,
The levels suggested above do work - I'm a member of a sign based forum, along with Justin, that has this structure in place and it does work. It weeds out the serious from the members that only post once or twice and never post again. It is also a very informative site and has a large member base. Because it is a paid for forum it has some clout in the industry and suppliers take it more serious offering good incentives and trade discounts to paid members. I don't think this would happen, on an ongoing bases, if this site continued to be free.

Justin: I hope you are successful in running this as a free site, it's great to be here and its an excellent site.

Had a good morning debating this and also Newcastle United won which has also made my weekend.

Cheers John
Can't argue with anecdotal evidence. Don't see it working here, myself, though... But I shan't have a coronary if I'm wrong. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Justin
20-12-2009, 04:50 PM
I was a contributing member of the Sign forum for a few years but never paid to get the additional access. I thought about it as it may have been useful but maybe i'm just too mean! I do think it can put new members off but I got what I needed form the forum at the free level.

Justin

JSR
20-12-2009, 04:56 PM
I was a contributing member of the Sign forum for a few years but never paid to get the additional access. I thought about it as it may have been useful but maybe i'm just too mean! I do think it can put new members off but I got what I needed form the forum at the free level.

Justin
There is the danger that no one would pay. And if a free member asks the question "what's the best way to press a mug?", will everyone be banned from saying anything except "you'll have to pay to access the tutorial"..?

And how soon before one person pays, gets the tutorials, then offers them for free elsewhere over the internet?

Yeah, I know, I'm pessimistically looking at the negatives... Glass half-empty, and all that.... :shock:

Stitch Up
20-12-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm a paid up member of UKSignbords and have been for a few years. You can't compare this forum to UKSB if that's the benchmark.

UKSB has 1000's of members and recently notched up 1,000,000 posts! Many of it's members make their living from signs. There's a quotes & sub-contracting section - I've made money from this easily covering the cost of membership. A couple of members have written books

DSF has been running for a few months and I believe there are not many more than 30 contributiong members. The vast majority doing dye-sub as a hobby or sideline.

The costs at present are minimal and will easily be met by a few donations.

The matters to be discussed now is where do you want this forum to go, do you want file hosting etc etc. Now is the time to shift to another hosting if it's considered necessary.

John

Flash
20-12-2009, 10:48 PM
I don't do Dye-Sublimation printing, I might do in the near future! Do I get kicked off now :?:
I see this Forum has other sections though ( to which I feel I have contributed to) I would like to see these sections increased to see this Forum cater for ALL types of garment printing. It would also be nice to include printing of other promotional items.
I used a Forum based in the States for quite a while but sadly the U.K section of that Forum was not too strong. This Forum is a massive resource and totally free, I believe they fund themself through advertising.
I think the information contained in Forum(s) should only be visable to Registered/Active users.
And the reason I don't put my Web Address on Forums is that I don't want potential customers who search for me on Google knowing that I have had a bad day or my 16th Epson Printer has 'bit the dust'!

Phil

Justin
20-12-2009, 10:53 PM
I would like to expand he forum to cover other topics, just need to be careful that the layout stays clear and not over-complicated. There are limitations as to the layout and the current layout is pretty much the clearest.

With regards to changing platforms. We would have to start the forum from scratch, zero postings. Forumotion who host this forum don't supply the databse to enable the information to be swapped over :-(

Justin

PS We don't mind if you don't use dye-sub. Just make sure you do in the future! LOL.

JSR
20-12-2009, 11:40 PM
I would like to expand he forum to cover other topics, just need to be careful that the layout stays clear and not over-complicated.
Yes, that's quite important. There's a forum I used to post at that went for "quality over quantity". They had sub-forums for practically any topic under the sun (it was a TV forum), even though most rarely got posted in. They claimed a membership of some 50,000 names - yet only a very tiny fraction of those names ever posted. In short, it was a sham trying to big itself up. What's the point of that?


With regards to changing platforms. We would have to start the forum from scratch, zero postings. Forumotion who host this forum don't supply the databse to enable the information to be swapped over :-(
I think that this is a subject that needs addressing sooner rather than later. Having your data being held effectively hostage by the host is not a good foundation to start up on. What if they lose all your data - particularly if they don't allow you do make a local backup? At least a forum you install yourself on your own webspace is under your control, and not left at the whim of someone who won't allow you access to your own data.

It also begs the question of what they intend to do with the data if they don't let you get hold of it? Makes you think.

JSR
20-12-2009, 11:42 PM
I don't want potential customers who search for me on Google knowing that I have had a bad day or my 16th Epson Printer has 'bit the dust'!
Well, so long as you have a 17th Epson printer to carry on the workload, they haven't got anything to be worried about. :D

If this is a concern, though, perhaps the forum should be accessible only by people who have signed up, and not just a casual surfer or a Google robot?

mrs maggot
21-12-2009, 12:06 AM
i agree with flashes points about accessible forums, the other problem, is customers finding their way onto websites, where they see trade prices, cost prices - i know of a forum that gives you profit margins etc - and that was a bloody disaster, as people just looking around the net - suddenly found out a little too much information about the business if you see what i mean

Stitch Up
21-12-2009, 06:16 AM
So what do these people trawling the net discover when they end up on a site like this? That we buy a mug for £1 do a bit of work with it and sell it on at a profit?

Don't most businesses make a profit? If I buy a shirt from M&S and pay a tenner for it, would I really be that concerned if I discovered M&S only paid 80p for it? I don't think so.

I'd have no problem explaining why I charge £4.95 for a personalised printed mug or £10 for a heat pressed T.

Flash
21-12-2009, 11:54 AM
So what do these people trawling the net discover when they end up on a site like this? That we buy a mug for £1 do a bit of work with it and sell it on at a profit?

Don't most businesses make a profit? If I buy a shirt from M&S and pay a tenner for it, would I really be that concerned if I discovered M&S only paid 80p for it? I don't think so.

I'd have no problem explaining why I charge £4.95 for a personalised printed mug or £10 for a heat pressed T.

I too have no problem explaining to people why I get up for work in the morning, most people understand why we have to work!
But I would rather NOT have to explain to a customer why Justin had to print my Transfers as my printer ground to a halt!
Look at your 'Profile', I know where you Trade & how old you are and that's before I start delving into your personal posts! I have no problem with people I choose to converse with knowing, but all and sundry, i'd rather not! This information needs protecting!



I think that this is a subject that needs addressing sooner rather than later. Having your data being held effectively hostage by the host is not a good foundation to start up on. What if they lose all your data - particularly if they don't allow you do make a local backup? At least a forum you install yourself on your own webspace is under your control, and not left at the whim of someone who won't allow you access to your own data.

It also begs the question of what they intend to do with the data if they don't let you get hold of it? Makes you think.




If this is a concern, though, perhaps the forum should be accessible only by people who have signed up, and not just a casual surfer or a Google robot?

I agree with both of these two 'well made' points http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png

Phil

The Phoenix
21-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Hi - some interesting points raised there. I have a website of my own which I am developing, which is related to my graphics interest. It is depicted on my profile. Some members here may not have a website of any kind, which may be why they are not showing one. I do not suppose that everyone on this site is a 'professional' mug/mousemat/t-shirt decorator. I do not currently do any of my graphics work in order to earn a living, and I would certainly say that what I do does not earn me a fast buck. My equipment has cost me considerably more than I have made.

The sharing of information between each of us hopefully benefits us all. Clearly, registration should entail benefits compared to non-registration. I found this site during a browsing session, and came from one of my suppliers sites. If I can be of any help I am willing to impart some of my knowledge and experience - most of which has been gained through trial and error.

Apart from you guys on here I do not know of other persons interested in what we do, so word of mouth is tricky. I am willing to include a link to this forum from within my own site, although currently my site does not have a vast amount of traffic.

Money - It is always a tricky subject - if a financial transaction is made then usually the payer wants something tangible in return. What to one person is good value for a fiver is a con to someone else.

Regarding advertisers to approach, initial ideas could be to approach ones that members personally recommend. We all use certain suppliers on a regular basis, who we wouldn't if we had bad experiences.

Mal