Ebay Power Sellers & Revenue & Customs

[Ian M]

Don't know if anyone else saw it in the papers but, a small story saying Revenue & Customs are going to start to look at Ebay Power Sellers.

It seems they are going to be chasing people for undeclared taxes & it also says possible capital gains taxes too. It also looks like Ebay are going to be giving them all the information they require to chase people.

[Kaz]

Didn't see it Ian, but would be interested to know which paper it was in so I can go see if I can find it online for a read

[Ian M]

News of the World Kaz.

[Ian M]

This is the link to the story........................http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/notw/_news/1313623/Taxman-targets-eBay-auction-sellers.html

[JSR]

This is a good thing. The rest of us have to abide by tax rules, ebay shouldn't be a loophole.

[purpledragon]

This isnt new one of my customers is the guy in my area who takes you to court for tax evasion his advice to me has always been " for god sake brett make sure you declare all online sales especially ebay because the tax guys check and will catch up with you eventually " You're right JSR it is a good thing but then its been happening for a while so what differance it makes in getting rid of those who under charge who knows. I will say though if any of you out there are one of the people who think they will never be caught you will be eventually. Even if you gave up today the tax man can find you years later.

[John G]

This is good news - it might level the playing field a little.

Surely anyone that sells stuff on ebay on a regular basis must be registered as a business seller and therefore pay taxes anyway.

[phoenixalpha]

Jeez... some people have a real dislike of "ebay traders"... Surely your product should compete quality and price. It's what the market can bear and if you are charging £9 for a mug, that someone else is charging £8 for and they are of a similar quality, its up to you to bridge that gap someway. Ebay is ebay and if its not ebay, it'll be at a market somewhere... if its not there - it'll be someone you know and word of mouth.

[gstk]

I'm all for it - if you dont play the game fair you have to take your medicine!!

[JSR]

Jeez... some people have a real dislike of "ebay traders"... Surely your product should compete quality and price. It's what the market can bear and if you are charging £9 for a mug, that someone else is charging £8 for and they are of a similar quality, its up to you to bridge that gap someway. Ebay is ebay and if its not ebay, it'll be at a market somewhere... if its not there - it'll be someone you know and word of mouth.

I'm not sure I understand. If someone is flouting tax regulations in order to undercut you, are you saying it's up to the legitimate folk to flout those same regulations in order to compete?

[phoenixalpha]

No I'm not saying that - I'm saying I compete on quality and price when I sell my stuff. Some people will always want to undercut others, legal or not. I dont complain about it, cause they will always be found out and I'd rather be in long term biz than try for a fast buck. Quality and reputation get you repeat biz. Good competitive prices with good quality bring people in the door. If someone wants to go for a cheap mug with a football logo on it for under a fiver - they will be able to find one - either on ebay or at a market. I'm not interested in that because I know it'll catch up with them. I dont compete and I dont moan about it. Ebay will always be ebay, markets will always be markets. I can go get a cheap mug or an armani knockoff from my local market - but why would I want to? I dont complain about it either....

[Matt Quinn]

if you are charging £9 for a mug, that someone else is charging £8 for and they are of a similar quality, its up to you to bridge that gap someway.

-Like by breaking the law? Which is actually how a lot of Ebay sellers and market traders gain their 'competative advantage'. Be it via tax evasion or copyright theft or just plain ripping off customers...

Fact is Ebay's reputation is 'down there' with the very dodgiest of dodgy markets...

Don't get me wrong; I'm no fan of the government machine - run by those crooked robber barons we call politicians. And frankly I couldn't care less if they (HMRC) get their pound of flesh or not. But I've no more sympathy for some shady E-blagger who gets sprung than I would the sort of market trader who gets done for punting stolen goods...

AFAIK folk 'round here are trying to earn an honest living...

[JSR]

No I'm not saying that - I'm saying I compete on quality and price when I sell my stuff. Some people will always want to undercut others, legal or not. I dont complain about it, cause they will always be found out and I'd rather be in long term biz than try for a fast buck. Quality and reputation get you repeat biz. Good competitive prices with good quality bring people in the door. If someone wants to go for a cheap mug with a football logo on it for under a fiver - they will be able to find one - either on ebay or at a market. I'm not interested in that because I know it'll catch up with them. I dont compete and I dont moan about it. Ebay will always be ebay, markets will always be markets. I can go get a cheap mug or an armani knockoff from my local market - but why would I want to? I dont complain about it either....

I agree with you entirely on that. However, if the taxman is going to clamp down on rip-off merchants then I see that as worthy of a cheer. Cheering that they might get their knuckles rapped isn't the same as moaning that there are people with knuckles that need rapping.

[phoenixalpha]

- AFAIK folk 'round here are trying to earn an honest living...

You can still earn an honest living and not charge £9 for a mug. I'm sure that high street shops selling a top at £20 and Primark selling a similar top at £10 feel rightly justified in criticising Primark - but wont stop shoppers @ primark. It's about pricing accordingly. Quality products at decent prices are always good sellers.

[John G]

Jeez... some people have a real dislike of "ebay traders"..
Who's got a real dislike of ebay traders? all I was stating was it may level the playing field - I do trade on ebay too, as a business!

As for your statement regarding Primark, that doesn't make any sense at all, Primark are a business so pay the same taxes as any other business. Ebay, £3.00 a mug, traders won't be paying any taxes at all so its not a level playing field.

[mrs maggot]

an honest living is what some of us on here do, a "little extra" to help with holidays, housekeeping or whatever is what some of us on here do also. Its the same for ebay - what others are saying is that it is fair that the "undeclared earnings" of those "hobby printers" will be looked at in the same way that it is for businesses.

[Matt Quinn]

- what others are saying is that it is fair that the "undeclared earnings" of those "hobby printers" will be looked at in the same way that it is for businesses.

Is it fair that the basic 'food on the table and shoes on the kids' feet' should be taken from those with all the overheads of trading legitimately to provide 'little extras' sought by those who - semi pro or otherwise - are gaining an advantage by flaunting the law?

I know folk who run small businesses who's teenage kids have never BEEN on a holiday!

[Stitch Up]

Ebay doesn't 'arf get a bashing! Why should they? They just provide a platform for you to advertise and sell your goods.

If advertisers then decide not to declare profits and avoid paying taxes, why does that reflect badly on Ebay?

If traders don't pay their taxes, I have to pay more and that's not fair.

[Matt Quinn]

Ebay doesn't 'arf get a bashing! Why should they?

(in my opinion)...It's because they operate as dishonestly themselves as any dodgy street trader. As a buyer I've found their buyer protection not worth a light. I've lost money to dodgy traders, and Ebay were complicit in that...

Another example...

A few years ago I reported a guy for selling fake Rolexes; they were being bid up to the several-hundreds. VERY obvious fakes if you know what you were looking at, and ordinary folk were being taken in... I listed a perfectly legitimate watch myself - box, papers, service history, serials; 100% kosher with all the proof possible.

... The auction was cancelled by ebay time-after-time as 'punishment' for rocking the boat! And this sort of thing goes on all the time!

Ebay know perfectly well they're supporting fakes, frauds and flim-flam artists - they profit from it; tacitly encourage it... And woe-betide anyone who rocks the boat!

Ebay gets the rep it deserves in my opinion...

[jennywren]

I was a market trader, (shop owner now ) and I did'nt country to believe shove it all in my pockets and left everyone to pick up the tab, I am not squeaky clean either, I sure that at times I did not do things the correct way or by the book, for example I probably took money out of box to buy my self a sarnie, or use the money to pay for my parking, and more than likely a number of small infractions that I never thought of, I did'nt always get receipts. Generally I was accountable to the tax man and even got investigated, ( just a random pull ) On ebay the pay-pal account is traceable to the accounts that the money goes in. It will be easier for the tax man and the dreaded vat man to trace, most that will be caught will be on a radon pull by them, some by some reporting them, most will get away with it, as there is not enough tax people to do this. Do I worry about them (NO) but I do find it offensive that ebayers and market traders are spoken about in a derogatory way, I not sure what make everybody think they are superior because they are neither or only one of them. The one thing I am sure of that nobody is whiter than white over tax. ( he who is with out sin, cast the first stone)

[Matt Quinn]

Do I worry about them (NO) but I do find it offensive that ebayers and market traders are spoken about in a derogatory way, I not sure what make everybody think they are superior because they are neither or only one of them. The one thing I am sure of that nobody is whiter than white over tax. ( he who is with out sin, cast the first stone)

Who's speaking about Market Traders and Ebayers in a derogatary way?

Facts need to be faced... Ebay is a shark tank. Likewise many of the markets. - And in both cases they are that way because the proprietors turn a blind eye to the 'dodgy' traders at the expense of the legit ones. Personally I wish it weren't so... But...

Does that make all Ebayers or market traders sharks? Nope! But if you either buy or sell in either of those waters then you need to be aware of what you're swimming with. I'm neither averse to sourcing material from Ebay (or the flea markets) or selling off personal items on it. I simply proceed with caution.

As suggested HMRC don't have the staff or really the interest in tackling the odd missing petrol receipt or cash sale that didn't make it through the receipt book... NOR are they interested in the wee granny that sells the odd knitted doll once or twice a month...

In this case they'll be targetting powersellers, multiple accounts etc... People that ARE making a living on a scale and simply not playing with the same goal posts as most of the rest of us.

Some of my clients are Trading Standards and Police Forces. Contacts there tell me some of these Ebayers they're after are thought to be turning over £100K, £200K a year... Declaring incomes of £20K-£30K

Whiter than white? NOT much choice as my business is a Limited Company and my lecturing is as an employee... Can't get away from regulation regulation regulation... I don't believe myself to be any different from the guy that runs the Post Office or the Chinese take-away or the local Window Cleaner... All ground down by officialdom, rules, regulations...

[mrs maggot]

i trade at festivals and markets all year round, i have the tax man regularly telling me what i can and cant claim, and what taxes i pay, i love being self employed, its taken a while, and we have lost a lot in the process, but i have gone from being a 30k plus a year rep to being a self employed trader, we have managed to keep hold of our house, despite problems with me not being able to work after 2 knee operations went wrong - holidays - what holidays lol

ebay has grown and grown over the years, and its plain to see that a lot of sellers on there cars, toys, mugs, whatever are selling vast quantities whilst not a registered business. we have a guy locally "cant work due to ill health" never without a car on the drive being stripped, or rebuilt and sold on, he never sends off the green slip, so by the time he sells it, its never been in his name, local council are sorting him out at the moment, a neighbour has kept a record of all the cars that have been there over the past 3 years - and its 100's

[jennywren]

Lots of remarks on this thread about ebays and market traders that are obvious just plain bias and rude, not all Limited Company are whiter than white, you must see your self as a flagship. Shame your clients do not care about the confidentiality, it would hard to expect us to believe that do not mention names places ect. if HMRC had the staff these people would have been dealt with long time ago, power sellers etc have been around for a long time and will continue to be so.

[JSR]

The one thing I am sure of that nobody is whiter than white over tax.
It seems a little odd that you berate those who inadvertently paint "all ebayers" or "all market traders" with the same derogatory brush, yet you're quick to declare that *everyone* is a bit dodgy over tax.

[jennywren]

It seems a little odd that you berate those who inadvertently paint "all ebayers" or "all market traders" with the same derogatory brush, yet you're quick to declare that *everyone* is a bit dodgy over tax.

never said dodgy, I was trying to say that at times without realizing it or thinking I did not stick strictly to the letter of the law, I did not want be hypocrite and say that I did, although I do pay taxes, etc. I was trying to be fair and honest, we might as well have a section that says inadvertently put your remarks about ebayers and market traders and don't let anybody take offense at this, or we'll nit pick at your post

[Matt Quinn]

you must see your self as a flagship. Shame your clients do not care about the confidentiality, it would hard to expect us to believe that do not mention names places ect.

Must I? Interesting piece of psychoanalysis there...

As I said... My business is no different from that of the likes of local Window Cleaner in terms of how compliant it is, and has to be, to survive. Nothing special or unusual.

As for confidentiality? The clients that seek confidentiality get it. Others seek publicity; which is why they get videos made! - If you don't believe me do a little legwork to discover who produced the 'Doorstoppers' programmes for Stirling Council, and more recently the Lanarkshire Trading Standards/Strathclyde Police doorstep crime DVD featuring the well-known Scottish comedian Ford Kiernan... And others!

- As I own the copyright to these I can even send you a copy if you like! - The TSO's, Police and community safety partnerships are only too keen to get the safety message out!

[JSR]

never said dodgy, I was trying to say that at times without realizing it or thinking I did not stick strictly to the letter of the law, I did not want be hypocrite and say that I did, although I do pay taxes, etc. I was trying to be fair and honest, we might as well have a section that says inadvertently put your remarks about ebayers and market traders and don't let anybody take offense at this, or we'll nit pick at your post

With respect, you specifically said "The one thing I am sure of that nobody is whiter than white over tax."

That statement has nothing to do with what you specifically do in your own business. With those words, you've accused everyone of being less than legal when it comes to tax. If there's a different interpretation to your words, I'd be interested to hear it.

I'm not here to "nit-pick" but your words accuse me and everyone else of bending the rules when it comes to tax. To not query it would be to agree with you, and I certainly do not agree with you.

[jennywren]

We could go back and forth all night with what you think I meant, this is like being back at school with the teacher interpretation your English lesson and they have the last word because they are always right, even if you concede some points they want it all their own way. I give up.

[JSR]

We could go back and forth all night with what you think I meant, this is like being back at school with the teacher interpretation your English lesson and they have the last word because they are always right, even if you concede some points they want it all their own way. I give up.

So you didn't mean to accuse everyone of being dishonest with their taxes, then? Okay.

[jennywren]

JSR is rght, nobody is dishonest with their taxes.

[JSR]

JSR is rght, nobody is dishonest with their taxes.

You know I didn't say that. You're the one who generalised, not me.

Everyone can read what has been said here. You're just making yourself look foolish now.