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hakuna
07-06-2011, 10:44 PM
hi everyone im in the process of doing 6 placemats and 6 coasters for someones retirement
when i did the first one it was good but when i did the next 3 they all came out with white streaks throught the pictures, the pictures themselves are ok but its the white streaks and some fadeness in them as well, i bought my placemats and coasters from bms so they are good quality im pressing the placemats at 185c and for 60sec and using baking sheets in between the heat plate and the base plate at medium pressure, ive not started the coasters yet just incase the same thing happens again to them, if anybody has some suggestions what my problem could be, the people are picking them up on friday morning.
thanks
malcolm

purpledragon
08-06-2011, 12:05 AM
im betting you have the placemat in the middle of the press, i used to get this on my old press, try pressing it with the placemat off centre
brett

hakuna
08-06-2011, 12:31 AM
thanks for your reply yes i am pressing in the middle of my press i thought it might be the cheap baking sheet i was using also when they are done pressing they are warped i was told to put something heavy on top of them when they come out of the press so i did but still a bit warped, how far off center should i put them also i have the same problem with the coasters i also press them in the center of the press with the same results, thanks for your help.
malcolm

mgibbs
08-06-2011, 01:11 AM
Surely there shouldn't be a problem putting them in the centre unless there's a fault with the press?

Mark

hakuna
08-06-2011, 01:24 AM
hi there i agree with you about that its a brand new 8 in 1 combo i bought from corelgraph about a month ago as i said earlier im using cheap baking paper between my work when the press has finished and i lift the press lid up the paper and the placemat are sticking to the heat plate so im just wondering if the paper has moisture in it causing the white streaks in the placemat.

thanks for your help
malcolm

bms
08-06-2011, 09:03 AM
It might be worthwhile pre pressing the items fir 30 seconds or more to see if you get steam coming out or a moisture mark. Pre pressing will remove the moisture which can interfere with the sublimation ink transfer.

AdamB
08-06-2011, 10:03 AM
It might be worthwhile pre pressing the items fir 30 seconds or more to see if you get steam coming out or a moisture mark. Pre pressing will remove the moisture which can interfere with the sublimation ink transfer.

Good points from Martin - moisture can affect anything that it can get into.

The only problem I had 'pre pressing' was once you press press the placemat becomes warped due to the heat so it makes it even harder to get the artwork lined up. I gave up the ghost of pre-pressing since then and do them a little longer, harder and hotter and it 'seems' to suit me better.

Andrew
08-06-2011, 10:05 AM
A photo would help. Are you using the same sheet of baking paper? If so is it crinkled at all after first use? Have you tried it without the baking sheet?

Have the coasters/placemats still got any plastic covering on?

As far as a weight is concerned, about 1kg + does a decent job.

hakuna
08-06-2011, 10:13 AM
hi martin thanks for your reply do i repress the placemats as normal with the baking sheets i use or without, when i did press the mats and when i lifted the lid up the placemat and the baking sheet were stuck to the hot plate of the press and i just remembered that when i did the first 2 coasters about a month ago they came out great but when i went to do the next 2 coasters using the same baking sheet they were streaked and a bit faded this was the same result when i did the first mats last night ive ended up with 2 good mats out of five, i have 6 placemats left and need 4 out of them for friday morning cant afford anymore bad presses.

malcolm

hakuna
08-06-2011, 10:27 AM
yes i am using the same sheet of baking paper and it is crinkled after the first use the first mat and coasters are fine its the second mat that has the streaks after using the same baking sheet, i have taken the plastic covering off them also when finished pressing the mats are a bit warped as well i tried putting a haevy weight on top of them but still a bit warped, what is a good temp and time for pressing the mats and coasters.
thanks
malcolm

Kaz
08-06-2011, 10:39 AM
it is crinkled after the first use

What happens if you use a different baking sheet?

I use greaseproof paper on everything, less than £2 from the supermarket

hakuna
08-06-2011, 10:46 AM
yes it is crinkled after the first use and i have not tried a different sheet it sounds like i will have to maybe use a new sheet everytime that im going to press anything, i bought my paper from morrisons in greenock, im pressing at 185c and the time is 60 secs im using the combo press 8 in 1 that i bought from corelgraph about 6 weeks ago should i press at different settings or keep the settings that i have been using.
thanks
malcolm

Andrew
08-06-2011, 01:46 PM
Are the streaks a similar pattern to the creases on the baking sheet. If it's fine first time around and not second then a new sheet or no sheet is what I would do. Teflon doesn't cost that much and can be reused many times with no problem. If it's steam/moisture it temds to look more mottled. I use a bit more heat at around the 190/195 for 60 secs for coasters etc. but many use less like you.

hakuna
08-06-2011, 02:07 PM
hi andrew you are rigjht they are similar to the crease marks on the paper and yes the first time is perfect the second time the streaks are there, i took the times and temp from the specs that were on the bms website i will try different times tonight and will use new sheets everytime im going to press, can you just press without the baking sheets or do we use them to protect the heat plate of the press, also when im done pressing and take them out of the press the mats are a bit warped tried putting them under a haevy object but still a bit warped.
thanks for youre reply.

malcolm

JSR
08-06-2011, 06:47 PM
I press placemats for longer than the "recommended" times because I would get unsublimated streak marks if I didn't.

Re: crinkled paper. Like Kaz, I use supermarket greaseproof paper which I discard after each job. Actually, I have a piece below and above the item being pressed and I use the (crinkled) top piece as the "underneath" piece for the next item before discarding it.

Regarding the warping - that's a particular annoyance with placemats, and UniSub ones are the worst for it. I've tried flattening placemats by stacking multiple boxes of mugs on top of them but it still doesn't get rid of of the warping - and that's clearly not a practical method of production when you're trying to do dozens of the things (we just don't have enough boxes of mugs, or spare tabletop space, to line them all up!).

UniSub really should have looked into that warping by now. I dread doing placemats and always try to steer the customer towards something else.

Andrew
08-06-2011, 11:55 PM
Sounds clear that it is your greaseproof paper. You possibly don't need any, we rarely use teflon sheets or extra paper in between the press...
For the warping just try to get the largest, compact weight that you find possible. You could fill a large jug up with water - 2 litres gives you 2 kg to put on top.

Kaz
09-06-2011, 11:59 AM
I use 2 Next Directories on top of items that warp, lol

mgibbs
09-06-2011, 03:01 PM
You need one of these: Click me (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_6n29s54QKiU/SBk7hzPIDwI/AAAAAAAAAb0/SJc8PAPTc5A/s400/hill%2Bpress.jpg&imgrefurl=http://meliors.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html&usg=__gnV5X3h1nbgUD8RZDEpVUodZDzQ=&h=368&w=369&sz=36&hl=en&start=8&zoom=1&tbnid=N01ksJM_sd9wHM:&tbnh=122&tbnw=122&ei=M7_wTd__OMWq8QPXpsmNDQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbook%2Bpress%26hl%3Den%26newwindow%3D 1%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1429%26bih%3D997%26tbm%3Disch%2 6prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&biw=1429&bih=997)

:smile:
Mark

JSR
09-06-2011, 04:33 PM
I use 2 Next Directories on top of items that warp, lol

You get them flat with 2 directories?

I put 50Kg of mugs on top of mine and they're still not flat afterwards. :confused:

Kaz
10-06-2011, 12:14 AM
I do :-)

Just leave them like that for a while, my OH is glad I've found something useful to do with them, lol

JSR
10-06-2011, 12:20 AM
I do :-)

Just leave them like that for a while, my OH is glad I've found something useful to do with them, lol

I'll have to nick someone's Next directories, then..! :biggrin:

AdamB
10-06-2011, 09:49 AM
Now I have a dilema!

Do I bite the bullet and continue to have slightly warped placemats ......

or

.... do I tell the missis that I need her catalogue books to which I will be inundated with 'see, told you they were worth having ...' comments!

John G
10-06-2011, 10:43 AM
I need to do some of these coasters for an order I have but I'm getting a little confused.

Years ago I attended the print/promo at the NEC and saw a sublimation demo at a NovaChrome stand. They were making mugs and coasters and I recieved these hot off the press - there was no warping at all on the coaster - non, and they were doing these all day. I know this because I went back and snaffled another coaster and mug .:biggrin: they were Ratatouille after all and were for the kids. :redface:

Is it only the BMS ones that warp or do they all warp or is there another type of coaster I should be looking at?

Cheers John

NASH
10-06-2011, 10:48 AM
John i use BMS coasters and they don`t warp here, but yes the placemats have a slight warp nothing too extreme

JSR
10-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Is it only the BMS ones that warp or do they all warp or is there another type of coaster I should be looking at?

From what I've experienced, if it's UniSub it'll warp. The cheaper wooden coasters don't warp. Whatever causes the warping, it's whatever UniSub make their products out of. I wonder why they haven't addressed the warping in all these years?

Kaz
10-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Ah, mine aren't unisub ones, maybe that's why they go flat again

AdamB
10-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Ah, mine aren't unisub ones, maybe that's why they go flat again

where do you get yours from Kaz?

Andrew
10-06-2011, 02:16 PM
It's the placemats that warp not the coasters on unisub as far as is noticeable anyway. It's down to the thermocoupling of 2 materials that react differently under heat when expanding/cooling.

bms
10-06-2011, 03:14 PM
From what I've experienced, if it's UniSub it'll warp. The cheaper wooden coasters don't warp. Whatever causes the warping, it's whatever UniSub make their products out of. I wonder why they haven't addressed the warping in all these years?

The smaller wooden coasters we sell are cut from UniSub board!

JSR
10-06-2011, 04:16 PM
The smaller wooden coasters we sell are cut from UniSub board!

Are you talking about these ones - http://www.printerowners.co.uk/sublimation/353/sublimation-wood-coasters.htm ? Because they don't look like UniSub board. They're much darker, and the printable side is far more fragile and easier to chip than the UniSub ones.

I have a couple of your previous type before these "cheap" ones came along, and I could believe that they might have come from UniSub board because they were much better quality.

bms
10-06-2011, 04:50 PM
Yes, these are cut from UniSub board.

Kaz
10-06-2011, 04:56 PM
Aha, it wasn't coasters/placemats I was pressing, it was jigsaws :(

Sorry for being a numpty

JSR
10-06-2011, 04:59 PM
Yes, these are cut from UniSub board.

Why are they a different colour? UniSub coasters are lightish brown, while wooden coasters are a much darker brown. UniSub coasters have "clean" plain backs, while wooden ones often have scruffy dark patches or white marks all over them.

Does someone take the premium-quality UniSub board and then drag it through a particularly shabby hedge to make the wooden coasters? Do they then go out of their way to make the printable side so much more fragile and easy-to-chip?

Jimbo
10-06-2011, 06:55 PM
Anyone tried the rubber/fabric mousemats for placemats? Should imagine they are machine washable and there'd be no warping problem. Cheaper too.

Ian Mc
01-07-2011, 03:32 PM
In my experience, any hardboard / MDF product has the potential to warp when sufficiently heated - however, the likelihood of it warping increases when the surface area is significantly larger than it's depth (this is why you never see coasters warping - surface tension holds it flat). I've occasionally seen the same thing happen with the Chromaluxe Photo panels.

I think (and it is only a theory), that if Unisub were to make these products from a denser hardboard, the issue would lessen (but not entirely disappear) - but you would see an increased material cost as a result.

I have found (only personal experience), that if you weigh these items down immediately after removing from the press and allow them to cool completely before removing the weight, that they're usually fine. Don't be tempted to take the the weight off a little early (like me) - it will warp if even slightly warm!

To the OP: I tend to find 200°C for 60 seconds works better than 185°C/60secs (again, just personal experience). :)