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View Full Version : What's happening in 2010 on the DSF?



Justin
31-12-2009, 09:47 PM
My intention in the new year is to move the Forum to a better platform on a different hosting package. The upside to this is that we'll have more facilities and far more flexibility. The downside is that it appears we cannot get the database from Forumotion to allow all of the exising threads to be migrated across. I'm told there may be a way to do this but it's a long shot and would seem unlikely. The only alternative will be to manually input the threads onto the new forum :-( We have a lot of useful information on here so one way or the other we'll move it all across.

Everyone will need to re-register but this shouldn't be a problem. Basically we're starting from scratch, something I'd hoped not to do but long term I'm sure it's for the best.

Financially there will be the need to raise some money but it won't be an awful lot. I may be able to cover this myself, that's the preffered option. Otherwise, I have been approached by a couple of suppliers interested in advertising. If we do use adverts they won't be too intrusive but as I say this isn't my first option. I've pretty much ruled out any form of membership because this kind of goes against my initial reasons for setting up.

If there's anything in particular you want to see on the forum that we havn't discussed please send me a PM.

I'm hoping to get the new forum up and running asap. Both will run side by side for some time until I'm happy we can make the transition.

I'd like to take this oppurtunity to thank all of our members for their support since we started out just 3 short months ago. I never expected the forum to take off as quickly as it has and with the new forum just around the corner I expect we can see a leap forward in the new year.

Happy New Year to you all and your families.

Take care & stay safe............and keep posting in 2010!

Justin http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_jokercolor.png

Stitch Up
01-01-2010, 12:29 PM
Personally, I'm not overly keen on advertisers paying for the forum especially when some members have suggested a donation button. The forum will lose some of it's independence when we accept paying advertisements.

What is the anticipated cost of running and hosting this forum over the next 12 & 24 months?

What do others think?

John

JSR
02-01-2010, 02:44 PM
Personally, I'm not overly keen on advertisers paying for the forum especially when some members have suggested a donation button. The forum will lose some of it's independence when we accept paying advertisements.

What is the anticipated cost of running and hosting this forum over the next 12 & 24 months?

What do others think?

John
I'm with you.

If we know upfront what the costs are, and there's a running tally next to the donation button, I'm sure the costs can be covered. If that doesn't happen, then maybe that will be the time to consider advertisers.

Justin
02-01-2010, 04:43 PM
This is my preffered option. At the moments the costs don't look too bad at all, I'm just getting everything together. I will enable a donation button on the new site and we'll have to monitor this to see how it goes.

If I can avoid advertising I will :-)

Justin

Paul
02-01-2010, 05:04 PM
This is my preffered option. At the moments the costs don't look too bad at all, I'm just getting everything together. I will enable a donation button on the new site and we'll have to monitor this to see how it goes.

If I can avoid advertising I will :-)

Justin
I am not big fan of adverts but I am not the enemy :) of it :) if we have to that means we have to. end of story. but as JSR said. we wont be independent.
Justin. Can you simply say what is the cost so we all know? and what do you mean by "new site" ??

Justin
02-01-2010, 06:57 PM
I want to move the forum to a phpBB platform with a new hosting package under the same domain name (eventually)

Cost wise, the hosting is likely to cost no more than £5 per month to start with. I will be transferring the domain name into this new host package so that will be included, currently it is a seperate cost.

Other costs will no doubt arise but we can deal with these as and when., this will partly depend on the features that we want. I may need some help setting up the new forum as my time is limited. I'm still hoping for a way to grab the data off here but havn't found this as yet.

Justin

Justin
02-01-2010, 07:23 PM
OK. Hosting costs are £6.95 p/m. If we can pay upfront for 6,12,18,24 months it gets cheaper. I'll start us off on monthly and cover the setup fee and first month to see how it goes. I can transfer the domain name over pretty quickly, may take a bit of work with the re-directions to this forum so we may have to use the Forumotion address for a couple of days......

http://subli.forumotion.com/

Justin
02-01-2010, 08:57 PM
Also looking at templates for the forum. Do we want to keep it clean and simple like existing or do we need something a bit better?

Links to ideas welcome, I'm looking at a few now. take a look at this.....

http://osc.template-help.com/nuke_3839/

Not really what we would be after but how about a similar layout to allow for different sections, supplier lists, tutorials etc?

accdave
02-01-2010, 09:11 PM
Not really what we would be after but how about a similar layout to allow for different sections, supplier lists, tutorials etc?

I'm lost. Whats up with this one ?

Justin
02-01-2010, 09:33 PM
We want to be able to expand on the information here, tutuorials, guides etc.
If we stay with this particular platform it makes any future expansion very difficult. We may already have to start from scratch so the sooner we make the hop the better.

At the moment this platform works really well for us but I think we need to look to the future. I appreciate all input though :-)

Calypso Bay
02-01-2010, 10:39 PM
Justin,

Happy New Year to you mate. Just my share. Go for it!!! I am sure you will get any funding from the rest of us. I am not happy at you paying for anything on your own, your hard work at running the forum is enough. We should all make an equal contribution to ensure the forum remains alive and kicking. You should make the decision to proceed, let us know the total cost and divide that by the number of registered users and ask them all their individual cost and then see what happens. The majority of users will hopefully contribute.

Also, you should get the money in first and then migrate so that we all know what exactly is the position and also so that you dont incur any uneccessary expenditure yourself.

Just my thoughts.

Calypso

Justin
02-01-2010, 10:44 PM
Many thanks for your comments Calypso, appreciate what you're saying about getting the funds in place first. This makes sense, if we could raise say a years worth of funds we'd get a much better deal.

The idea of a "Fundometer" is good, I could uodate this as funds come in and give regular updates.

Still playing with the data migration possibilities, that's what's holding me back at the moment!

Calypso Bay
02-01-2010, 10:54 PM
Yep, the fundometer sounds good!!

JSR
03-01-2010, 01:08 AM
We should all make an equal contribution to ensure the forum remains alive and kicking. You should make the decision to proceed, let us know the total cost and divide that by the number of registered users and ask them all their individual cost and then see what happens. The majority of users will hopefully contribute.
I'm not sure it would be practical to insist on an "equal contribution" because different people have different demands on their finances. If the contribution worked out to £10 but someone could only pay £2, that £2 wouldn't get contributed.

And it also wouldn't work to divide it by the number of registered users. If the cost to Justin is £70 and there are 70 registered members so the contribution is £1 each, and only twenty people contribute, then Justin is £50 out of pocket.

It would work far better to ask people to contribute a sum that can be balanced between their conscience and their wallet.

We all determine for ourselves what we are prepared to donate and, as I'm sure Justin would be the first to say, rather something little than nothing at all.

If, after a few weeks, the "fundometer" is lacking then we'll all know that we haven't done enough. Far better to donate a few quid now and, if necessary, donate another few quid in six months than to decide you can't afford a goodly amount this close to Christmas.

And if we all do well and donate more than the "fundometer" requires, then that leaves an amount for future additions to the forum.

purpledragon
03-01-2010, 02:31 AM
Why so down on adverts isnt there a sticky thread with a whole page full of suppliers getting a free advert? i bet theres a few on here who have followed links on there i know i have, i think adverts are fine if they are unobtrusive and subtle. How about free membership to the forum but a premium membership with a small charge premium members get some sort of benifit maybe a supplier discount its a thought innit? Also one last shot DSF is also a well known forum it stands for drop ship forum could get confusing ..... just a thought
Brett

JSR
03-01-2010, 01:08 PM
Why so down on adverts isnt there a sticky thread with a whole page full of suppliers getting a free advert? i bet theres a few on here who have followed links on there i know i have, i think adverts are fine if they are unobtrusive and subtle. How about free membership to the forum but a premium membership with a small charge premium members get some sort of benifit maybe a supplier discount its a thought innit?
I don't know about anyone else but it's a matter of balance for me. It's one thing to have advertisers confined to one sub-forum that you enter when you wish to see the adverts, and it's quite another to have adverts in your face all the time.

It's also a matter of control. If a supplier wants to offer members of this forum a discount and they post as such in the advertiser's forum, then we all benefit. The supplier benefits by advertising their wares, members benefit from the offer, and the forum benefits by an increased profile and more members (some of whom may donate towards the upkeep).

But if suppliers come in via the back-door, pay for the upkeep of the forum, then they effectively control the forum. As soon as that happens, posts would ultimately be heavily moderated to ensure there isn't the slightest criticism of that advertiser for fear that they'd withdraw their funding. Free speech will be gone and the forum will become useless.

Remember the old subli-nation forum in which discussions of "a popular dye-sub ink supplier" had to be moved to a "protected" sub-forum because subli-nation were being leaned on heavily to stop criticisms and problem posts? That's because the forum was an off-shoot of a supplier that sold a product from a manufacturer who didn't like being criticised. Measures had to be taken or else the supplier would, most likely, lose their reseller rights to the ink.

Or, to put it more simply, if this forum was paid for by suppliers A, B and C - each of whom sell ink D, and there's a discussion about how bad "ink D" is, then the manufacturer of "ink D" would put pressure on the suppliers to stop such discussion. They'd in turn put pressure on Justin to remove or heavily edit the posts - if he didn't do so, they'd be forced to remove their funding. This would lead to (i) more work for Justin and (ii) no funds to pay for the forum.

That'd be my concern.

However, if the forum is paid for my the members then the control is in the right place. So long as we're happy with the way Justin is running things (which I'm sure we are) then we donate. If we don't like it, we don't donate. So long as the majority of people are behind Justin, then there will be enough donations. If enough isn't donated, then Justin just needs to ask for members ideas and advice of how to improve things so that we are encouraged to donate and the forum will improve as a result. It's a win-win situation.


Also one last shot DSF is also a well known forum it stands for drop ship forum could get confusing ..... just a thought
Never heard of them. But given the URL is "dyesubforum", I can't see anyone getting confused.

Justin
03-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Great post JSR.

I'm all for supplies having their own section and offering discounts, new product releases and so on, but as you have said, this is better confined to it's own section so you can choose whether to visit or not.

I don't want any one supplier to be able to dictate the advice being given and this is why I'm leaning away from supplier funding through advertising etc.

I guess it will come down to how many members are willing to make a small donation to help things along. This latest target is less than £1 per member so it shouldn't be a difficult target. I just don't want to see the same few members putting the money in all the while.

Justin :-)

Karen.
03-01-2010, 01:24 PM
I am more than happy to donate.
This forum and its members have saved me far more than any donation needed over the years.

Paul
03-01-2010, 01:40 PM
I dont mind donate more then once too.
As Karen said. You can find more help on here. this help got value much more then donation...

lets say someone read the post about inks... it saved him about £150 so couple of quid for him now is nothing :)

Paul
03-01-2010, 03:51 PM
there is about £30 of donation so far!! so we r half way already! well done everybody! ;)

Calypso Bay
03-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Sorry guys,

Ive missed something. I want to donate some money to this forum. What do I do?

cheers. Mike

Stitch Up
03-01-2010, 05:23 PM
Some good changes Justin - perhaps make the donation level graphic a little smaller? Also, I think we need easier access to making a donation, maybe clicking on the thermo taking one to a donation page? Would be useful if some sort of 'tick' or mark could appear alongside those who've made a donation.

Justin
03-01-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm still working on the donation side of things, this is just interim :-)
I have a fully automated script now that will update a graph every time a donation is made....just trying to work it all out!

There will be a button on the graph to take you straight into donate.

Justin
03-01-2010, 05:26 PM
Sorry guys,

Ive missed something. I want to donate some money to this forum. What do I do?

cheers. Mike

You can make a PayPal donation to [email:ugxgz5w2]dyesubforum@gmx.co.uk[/email:ugxgz5w2]. If you select personal payment we don't have to pay any charges.

Many thanks,

Justin :-)

JSR
03-01-2010, 05:31 PM
Would be useful if some sort of 'tick' or mark could appear alongside those who've made a donation.
That's a good idea.

It's great to see that graphic climbing so quickly. Just goes to show that it can work.

Justin
03-01-2010, 05:33 PM
The new graphic allows me to show who's donated and how much. Not sure about this though.

This is a great start, many thanks to everyone who's given so far. I'm just updating the total again!

Stitch Up
03-01-2010, 05:40 PM
DOn't show how much, just an indication of who's made a donation

JSR
03-01-2010, 05:58 PM
DOn't show how much, just an indication of who's made a donation
Agreed. The amount is immaterial - the fact that someone believes in the forum enough to donate something, anything, is enough.

Justin
03-01-2010, 06:04 PM
Seconded :)

pressfx
03-01-2010, 06:40 PM
That didn't take long did it! Keep up the good work guys n gals :)

JSR
03-01-2010, 06:45 PM
Wow, it was half that just a moment ago!

Go on, own up - who put the 9p in? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Justin
03-01-2010, 06:46 PM
Everyone did! LOL. Thanks again guys and girls....I will update with progress soon.

:D

Paul
03-01-2010, 06:50 PM
I new there is lot of good people on here :)

purpledragon
03-01-2010, 07:06 PM
Great post JSR.
Justin :-)


Wow Ill consider myself well n truly told off then. Sorry guys i thought you asked for ideas so i just pitched a couple in there i never said they were good ideas ill be a lot more careful with any more requests for ideas in the future

:(
Brett

Paul
03-01-2010, 07:12 PM
hi Brett. no one having a go go at you :) you give your proposition and JSR give the points why they not as good... ;)

dont worry mate! always good to hear what others got to say.

Justin
03-01-2010, 07:13 PM
That's not how I mean't it at all :oops:

I do appreciate all comments & suggestions but have to make the best decisions I can for all members, this may not always be popular with everyone.

Please don't consider yourself 'told off' that wasn't the intention. i should have responded to your comments and for this I apologise.

Justin

Stitch Up
03-01-2010, 07:39 PM
THat thermometer reminds me of Blue Peter

Any monies left over go towards a p**s-up in the Shetlands :) Know any good pubs Justin?

Justin
03-01-2010, 07:51 PM
No decent pubs here, nearest is Aberdeen, lol. Easier for youguys to get to anyway! We have 9p at the moment to share around ;-)

I'll try and get us a dye-sub inspired thermometer then!

chongsta
03-01-2010, 10:56 PM
Hi all,

Why not just set a one off registration fee of say £3.00?

If you get just 2 members a week join, thats £6.00 and the hosting is only £6ish. Over a month that total will increase and before you know it you've got a few years supply of cash.

I dont like the idea of an "elite" section where content is hidden. Im a member of a signmaking forum and i think that valuable info is hidden away + the forum admins aren't really that nice.

Please dont let this place get all messed up with paying and whatnot. ive seen too many forums go wrong when cash is introduced.

Im more than happy to kinda backdate my membership and pay say £3.00 for the privelidge. This forum is getting stronger by the week. Its not too late to ask for cash now. I think some members have hit the nail on the head regarding advertisers and citicism of their products, lets keep this place independant and free of bias.

Cheers
Dave.

Justin
03-01-2010, 11:04 PM
A small one-off fee sounds like a good idea. Putting it into practice may not be all that easy, it would mean following up each new registration with an email and then we may be looking at removing new members who don't pay.

My aim all along has been to be able to offer the forum to all members for nothing but I've had to ask recently for some help.

It does become complicated where member levels are introduced. This first funding target was met very easily, we shouldn't need to do this very often but for the time being I think it's best to see how things go. I've covered a few other bits and bobs to improve the forum myself.

I do appreciate your comments Dave and will take your ideas onboard for future consideration

Justin :-)

JSR
03-01-2010, 11:19 PM
Great post JSR.
Justin :-)
Wow Ill consider myself well n truly told off then. Sorry guys i thought you asked for ideas so i just pitched a couple in there i never said they were good ideas ill be a lot more careful with any more requests for ideas in the future

:(
Brett
I know my post got pretty lengthy (I sometimes do that, sorry) but I didn't mean to cause offence or to be personal about it. I apologise if I did.

My intention was only to put across my view to answer your question of why some of us are "down" on adverts. That was all that was on my mind, honest.

I'm sure everyone would be happy to hear any opposing view of why adverts might be a good idea.

chongsta
04-01-2010, 08:32 PM
Hi Justin,

Yes i agree, following up on non payers will take up time needed for other things. How about new members dont get in until theyve paid?

Ive seen some forums where access is restricted until money is paid. Im sure that paypal offer a subscription service. Ive paid to enter some forums on a subscription level. Maybe thats a better way to do it.

I know ive contradicted myself slightly but it wouldnt be on an 'elite' basis of entry, merely a 'pay XXX and you're allowed to see everything' type thing.

The bigger alternative is to allow free entry with a proviso of "if you like what you see then please leave a small donation. Even £1.00 is appreciated"

Its a tricky little nut to crack is the old cash one. Im sure theres a way though.

all i say is keep up the good work to one and all, theres a wealth of info here.

Cheers
dave.

mrs maggot
04-01-2010, 09:38 PM
on one of our forums some of the pages are only available to members, ie forsale section (bargain hunters will always pay up) and the link to suppliers where there are disocunts available the rest of the site is free to view

swimwivsquid
04-01-2010, 09:47 PM
Laura I think you might need to edit your post.... :lol:

John G
04-01-2010, 09:58 PM
There's me thinking this was a family friendly forum :lol:

Justin
04-01-2010, 10:00 PM
Hi Justin,

Yes i agree, following up on non payers will take up time needed for other things. How about new members dont get in until theyve paid?

Ive seen some forums where access is restricted until money is paid. Im sure that paypal offer a subscription service. Ive paid to enter some forums on a subscription level. Maybe thats a better way to do it.

I know ive contradicted myself slightly but it wouldnt be on an 'elite' basis of entry, merely a 'pay XXX and you're allowed to see everything' type thing.

The bigger alternative is to allow free entry with a proviso of "if you like what you see then please leave a small donation. Even £1.00 is appreciated"

Its a tricky little nut to crack is the old cash one. Im sure theres a way though.

all i say is keep up the good work to one and all, theres a wealth of info here.

Cheers
dave.

It is a difficult balance. We don't really have the facility to only allow membership following subscription and at this early stage we don't want to put anyone off joining. The running fees are very low so Ithink we'll be fine for the foreseeable future. That is until i start to take a wage, LOL! It partly depends on what you all want from the forum in the future.

Tris
27-01-2010, 12:36 PM
Hi Justin,

Yes i agree, following up on non payers will take up time needed for other things. How about new members dont get in until theyve paid?

Ive seen some forums where access is restricted until money is paid. Im sure that paypal offer a subscription service. Ive paid to enter some forums on a subscription level. Maybe thats a better way to do it.

I know ive contradicted myself slightly but it wouldnt be on an 'elite' basis of entry, merely a 'pay XXX and you're allowed to see everything' type thing.

The bigger alternative is to allow free entry with a proviso of "if you like what you see then please leave a small donation. Even £1.00 is appreciated"

Its a tricky little nut to crack is the old cash one. Im sure theres a way though.

all i say is keep up the good work to one and all, theres a wealth of info here.

Cheers
dave.

It is a difficult balance. We don't really have the facility to only allow membership following subscription and at this early stage we don't want to put anyone off joining. The running fees are very low so Ithink we'll be fine for the foreseeable future. That is until i start to take a wage, LOL! It partly depends on what you all want from the forum in the future.

Hia

I'm not sure a registration fee is a good idea to be honest as it would put people off joining to see the benefit which once they have got into it make them want to donate, you can be sure that if you get charged to join then you will not get many future donations. The last forum I built looked into sending a pm to new members with a welcome message and a donation request that that worked quite well and was only stopped because the costs were recovered (it was only costing £15 per year) one way that has worked is offering people a premium membership with perhaps access to an integrated live chat facility or a games arcade (easy to do on phpbb3) just out of interest what is what is the status on your hosting move? and have you checked to see if your current provider allows you to download the database? I had to turn down a nice order (for forum building) due to the customer not been able to move the database (I am not touting for business here and any help and advise I am willing to provide you for free)

frizbee
20-03-2010, 10:37 PM
Hi,

Hows the fund raising going, whats your current target and balance, I have a really good developer who may be able to look to see what would be possible if you wanted to move and what could be done to save costs.

I could host for you at fasthosts for free if the space would be compatable for you, but couldn't provide much help with the sitre as I am really not website savvy, only back end technology savvy if you understand.

If we can help, giveus a shout.

David

Justin
22-03-2010, 09:25 PM
Hi,

Hows the fund raising going, whats your current target and balance, I have a really good developer who may be able to look to see what would be possible if you wanted to move and what could be done to save costs.

I could host for you at fasthosts for free if the space would be compatable for you, but couldn't provide much help with the sitre as I am really not website savvy, only back end technology savvy if you understand.

If we can help, giveus a shout.

David

Hi Dave,

Current balance is £90 give or take a few pence. I've taken care of this years hosting etc. and I have a good ongoing deal with this which seems to be working out fine. No current target at this stage as I'm still working on exactly what we want/need from the forum. It's likely I'll install a portal, i.e. a front page to allow different areas to be accessed including the forum.
Any help with updating the curreng format etc. would be good. I have a good knowledge now of how this type of forum works but modifications are still a little of a black art :)

Appreciate the offer of help :D
Justin