I (HEART) London and other t shirt artwork are registered designs

[logobear]

Just reading in Printware and Promotion that London Icons have succeeded in registering a host of I Heart designs, and are now selling licencing opportunities to use them.
They have registered London, Dublin, Scotland, Wales, and Paris,
They were registered 11 feb 2011, but the original I love N Y was created by Milton Glaser in 1977, and has been adapted by millions ever since.
here's the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Love_New_York
It seems odd that a randon garment print company in london can copywrite a design that has become generic, adapted, and reused by millions across the planet.
Looks like thats the end of another line of tshirts......

[jennywren]

Now the'll way have to go the other way with broken heart symbol New York, maybe they'll leave place Cambourne, and all those obscure places that nobody know
but I am sure some one will claim them, mind you I know Cambourne so maybe that's not a good example, I don't use any of those I love places logos. i am sure that there will be a lot of money to be made out of it and the amount of people that they will have to chase.

[Matt Quinn]

I suspect we ought to be in the new legal section with this; but not to get bogged down....

Registered WHAT exactly and with WHOM?

From: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/design/d-about/d-whatis.htm

"For its registration to be valid, a design must:

be new
have individual character.

A design is considered to be 'new' if no identical (or very similar) design has been published or publicly disclosed in the UK or the European Economic Area (EEA). For example, a design would not be considered new if it had been 'published' on an Internet website viewable in the EEA before the date it was filed. However, you can apply to register a design in the UK up to 12 months after the designer first discloses it."

Also...

"...design registration cannot protect non-stylised wording (ie. basic text), the way something works, or the idea or concept behind a product."


Copyright and design registration are two different things... If they designed an 'I heart' logo with a unique font and newly drawn symbol they would own the copyright to it anyway. Registering it as a design doesn't stop anyone else using the same concept...

In any case - the concept is FAR from new or unique! You can buy I Heart Scotland stickers in many souvenir shops...

If challeneged by London Icon Ltd's lawyers I personally would refer them to a certain Ms Dunbar...

http://youtu.be/RoZ7JXkv6_o

And thence quote Arkell Vs Pressdram...

The Muppets don't even have a proper website!

[AdamB]

Surely they can copyright the logo but they cannot copyright a love-heart and the 'I' word ????

I mean, yeah, micky mouse is copyrighted but I can still draw a picture of a mouse with big ears can't I ?

Do what I do, if you're unsure if something is copyrighted, have a look on ebay and if the design is on with various sellers then you're ready to go! - oh, and by the way, I'm only jesting with that last bit :-)

[AdamB]

.....If challeneged by London Icon Ltd's lawyers I personally would refer them to a certain Ms Dunbar...

http://youtu.be/RoZ7JXkv6_o

Where's that from Matt (lol) - never seen that before!

[Matt Quinn]

Surely they can copyright the logo but they cannot copyright a love-heart and the 'I' word ????

I mean, yeah, micky mouse is copyrighted but I can still draw a picture of a mouse with big ears can't I ?

Ok - it's REALLY important to seperate out the concept of copyright and design registration - They ARE two VERY different things. - These Sheisters are trying to flog licences based on a registered design - the registration of which cannot possibly be valid!

In my opinion London Icons Ltd are trying to pull a cheap flanker on the giftware industry here - And if London Icon Ltd's Lawyers would like to speak to mine about that statement then they can! As a card-carrying memeber of the BAJ I'll be delighted to use as much influence as I can to ensure the matter gets as much publicity as possible - and there IS such a thing as BAD publicity!


Yes Adam - you CAN draw a mouse with big ears provided it's far enough away from any of the copyright/trademark protected symbols created by Disney - and it needs to be pretty far away!

CLEARLY the text is generic, NOT new in the form of useage - Same applies to the symbol. The arrangement of elements is also clearly NOT new or unique so I would offer the opinion that their registration is clearly NOT valid!

How difficult would it be to find people to swear in court that they own or have owned an item with this so-called 'design' on it PRIOR to its registration! I swear BLIND I had an 'I ♥ London' sticker on my car when I lived there back in the 80's!!! - And incidentally' I've just reproduced that slogan using standard computer TEXT!!! - Non-styilised wording!!

I'm also VERY sure I've had (may still have) old T shirts with the design? How many peole here have been making them for YEARS???

For sure they have copyright over their own particular font and typesetting - As they do their own rendering of the heart symbol. But their 'registration' is NOT valid in my opinion and does not give them any more rights than those in the copyright over their own design.

- For them to have the CHEEK to try and 'licence' it!!! SHOCKING!

[Matt Quinn]

Where's that from Matt (lol) - never seen that before!

Karen's a local (Glaswegian) comedienne - Contemporary of Ford Kiernan and Greg Hemphill of 'Chewin The Fat' fame...

[AdamB]

Matt - as always, your replies are both informative and a good read.

I also like the fact that although it's quite hard these days to actually voice opinions on the interent as you can't see the person making them (and read their faces), you never alienate or try to embarrass anyone with your replies which to be honest is a breath of fresh air!

Just thought I'd let you know :-)

[Matt Quinn]

you never alienate or try to embarrass anyone with your replies

...With the possible exception of sheister Muppets that try to pull cheap flankers on the giftware trade. :wink::redface:

I need to get back to doing some work this afternoon but will try a little digging later on to see if I can get to the bottom of this 'registration' of theirs.

[John G]

As Matt said, they cannot do it as its not there's to licence. People have been doing "I Heart blah blah" for years.

[AdamB]

... People have been doing "I Heart blah blah" for years.

I haven't seen that one anywhere John? (lol)

[purpledragon]

I haven't seen that one anywhere John? (lol)
you will now i just registred it lol wanna buy the licence to use it john

[mrs maggot]

maybe purpledragon thought john said "baaa baaa" - you know what these welsh are like when it comes to sheep

[purpledragon]

maybe purpledragon thought john said "baaa baaa" - you know what these welsh are like when it comes to sheep
being english i havnt a clue what ewe mean

[John G]

How much for the blah blah licence - just got a massive enquiry :rolleyes:

[purpledragon]

How much for the blah blah licence - just got a massive enquiry :rolleyes:
£1.25 and £60 for every use limited to selling in outer mongolia only

[purpledragon]

just got a massive enquiry :rolleyes:
you wanna see a doctor about that sounds nasty

[pitkin2020]

Did you find anymore info on this Matt??

[chongsta]

I tried to copyright something "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away." :)

From what i was told...
1. You cant copyright a name (as in a persons name e.g. Jack, bob, sarah), also you cannot copyright or incorporate the word "Army" as well. (Andrew, stop laughing, this was before i met you!! oh god im getting a call from someone on monday lmfao hahahahha:) ) I tried to copyright "Jack-Army" which is the nick name for Swansea City F.C. (stop laughing Andrew:))
2. You cant copyright a phrase or a saying like e.g. "I am the Stig" (unless you're coca cola and you own the world!). so the BBC (in effect) have no way to prosecute because "stig" is short for "Stigmarsson" which is a Swedish male name and the "I am the" is a phrase or saying. so "I am the Stig" is surely acceptable to put on a tshirt??? yes/no? Of course if you use the image of the Stig as seen on Top Gear then you're into a world of hurt, but whats to stop me wearing white driving over-alls with a white helmet with arms folded and my image being used with the slogan "Im the Stig"?

---

Therefore i cant see how you can copyright a phrase like "I *heart* NY"...its a phrase, its a saying. New York or NY (and "I *heart* NY") surely isnt copyrightable as its both a name of a place and its a phrase used everyday e.g. "I *heart" Swansea" (not the best example but its where im from). what if some Yank changed their name to New York or NY, have they got the right to then sue the entire world for any such instance of New York or NY? i dont think so. I accept though that copying the exact logo for "i heart NY" verbatim, yes, i agree its a court case, but arent "variations" acceptable? It would kinda be like Coca Cola written in a Comic Sans font. Yeeeeees i know i couldnt use the actual words coca cola but my point is that the copyrighted discussion is about the iconic "I *heart* NY" as we've all seen it for the last 50 years. If i use a different font & different heart shape then surely i could produce stuff as well? yes/ no?

Ok, the typeface used is copyright yes, but only to the person that made the font and therefore they can claim for unlicensed use (good luck) of anything that uses that font without prior consent etc etc. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080504135106AAimLLc

So, couldnt i use a different heart shape and a different font?

errr

Bob.

[Kaz]

"but whats to stop me wearing white driving over-alls with a white helmet with arms folded and my image being used with the slogan "Im the Stig"?"

Because it infers "The Stig" image from the BBC show, same as you need to be careful when drawing mice that look like Mickey.

Someone who can explain what I mean better should be along soon.

I know what I'm trying to say but can't think on how to right now, sorry

[Andrew]

As far as the Stig scenario is and without wanting to go into a big explanation, it's basically called "Passing off" me thinks.

I can't see how anyone can patent the Heart stuff as it is and has been in the public domain for a long time with known origins. Haven't clicked on the link or looked into it though...... just my initial thoughts.

[Lee]

So i guess the same goes - and I think its be discussed before somewhere - if someone printed a sillouette of alan sugar and 'you're fired' that wouldnt be allowed - that would be 'passing off'?

[Andrew]

It's probably quite a thin line for where the right and wrong side of the law goes and down to interpretation. On something like that they would have to go out of their way to prove you are infringing on their ownership as you are not using an actual photo of Lord Sug's. How far passing off goes is a very grey area. If you just had the outstretched arm with pointing finger and You're Fired! it could still be deemed as passing off but a job to prove. Theoretically it is passing off as you would want people to make the connection to the Apprentice on the design, use a font not associated and a silhouette of your own arm/hand and I doubt they could do anything. It's a minefield with all these copyrights but rightfully so imo. If an organisation/ Company/ Individual creates something they they have the right to protect it from being ripped off.

[mrs maggot]

is anyone on here a member of ACID http://acid.eu.com/ and have they got anything positive to say about it ??

[John G]

Never heard of them - seems to be a money making machine judging by the amount they charge to be a member :cool:

[mrs maggot]

they are very visible at a lot of trade shows, most stands have their signs up, and will be there at the autumn fair (2 weeks away and a sign that xmas is coming lol) just wondered if anyone had any experience of how they can help for the membership they charge

[John G]

Put "copyright theft" into google, or many other similar phrases, and they are not even on the 1st few pages, infact I cannot find them - where as "FACT", are no 1 - 1st page.

Funnily enough they are using the same circle round the C in their logo - copying I think. :eek:

[mrs maggot]

just had an email with an alternative i heart london - its just a heart with a painted black line almost completely round it, with the word london underneath, when you look at it you still see i heart london - even though its not there if that makes sense - cant post the piccy im afraid