Riots Hope

[jennywren]

I do hope that no on the forum or their family is caught in any riots area, what a terrible thing to happen. I can't bear to watch. Its just a excuse to pillage, caused damaged and take what they want, I hope everything is aright in your areas, my thought go out to those who are caught in this mess

[Lee]

I echo those sentiments, there is enough struggle out there in day to day life without this additional unrest and agrevation.

[John G]

Line them up and shoot the bar stewards. Mindless idiots :mad:

[Lee]

The worry is that these mindless layabouts are joining in all over the country. Send in the army with rubber bullets and make em work for stuff, not jump on the back of this and pinch stuff they can't be ar$3d working for!

[Paul]

Line them up and shoot the bar stewards. Mindless idiots :mad:
agree 10000000%!!!
Correct me if Iam wrong. is it this same as in america that you allowed to shot somone if somone is on you land and you and family are at risk??


Send in the army with rubber bullets...
why rubber? do you realy belive they will ever change to "normal citizen"??

[mrs maggot]

trouble is the army we have in the UK at the moment, are all recovering from tours in real trouble spots, is it really right to expect them to go and deal with these louts. curfew, water cannons, and instead of handcuffing them and taking them into a van - handcuff them to the nearest lampost, as the police move along the roads, leave a chain of them along the street, from lampost to lampost, then let the OAPs that fought for this country come out and have a quiet word with them all - BUT most of all, get BBC, GMTV and SKY to stop all this media hype, they are adding fuel to the fire (no pun intended)

[Lee]

BUT most of all, get BBC, GMTV and SKY to stop all this media hype, they are adding fuel to the fire (no pun intended)

I agree completely, giving them their moment of fame! Scroats!

[kevin.m.]

why not give them a watering can and send them into the buildings to put out the fires they started, don't give them any water just get the buildings owner to tell them where the tap is and let them get their own.
load of low life scum.
must agree with with mrs maggot if the press were not there it would be a bit easier to distinguish between the low life scum and the rioters lol

[Ian M]

Just been to the bank this afternoon & they were saying that there are lots more incidents around but not being reported.
The government has already given permission to give rubber & plastic bullets to the police today & will be the first time they have been deployed on the mainland.
Parliament has been recalled for Thursday to debate the riots & this is the time which they can then decide to use the army if things don't get any better.

I have a friend who lives in Edmonton & the Sony warehouse is just down the road which was on fire last night. He said it's still burning now as lots of smoke is still coming up from it. Another friend is a nurse in Liverpool & she was working last night. She said going home this morning she drove past burnt out car after burnt out car. She also said it was just like a war zone & had never seen anything like it before.

It was bad enough when we had the riots here in Bradford a few years ago & the city still hasn't recovered since then.

It's all the businesses & families who have lost everything I really feel for right now.

[mrs maggot]

just got off the phone with a supplier in the centre of birminghams jewellery quarter, they have been advised to shut up shop until further notice, most of the jewellery shops have now taken their stock away via securicor etc, and the windows are all empty. he said he and his son will sleep at the shop tonight incase - i said they would be stupid to as if it is set on fire, they could die - he simpy argues its their family business and they have a duty to defend it

[Lee]

Absolute idiots. They don't care that people if they are lucky will not lose a life, but everything else in it - there home and income, not to mention the mental effects this will have on people caught up in it, especially innocent children! Is it any wonder the world is like it is with things like this been allowed to happen on the streets to innocent people? There should be ZERO tollerance on this. Peaceful demonstration fair enough. But violence and rioting? This should have been stamped on the first night IMHO.

[Ian M]

Just to try & lighten the mood. A friend has sent me this.

Cameron looked at Clegg, as they flew over the riot areas in a helicopter.
"You know, I could throw a £1,000 note out of the window right now and make somebody very happy."
Clegg shrugged his shoulders and replied, "I could throw ten £100 notes out of the window and make ten people very happy"
Hearing their exchange, the pilot of the helicopter said to his co-pilot,
"Such big-shots back there. I could throw both of them out of the window and make 28 million people very happy!

[Paul]

http://www.twitvid.com/embed.php?guid=4JTZH

It's so true...

[Lee]

Nuff said. Give that person a mic and a big screen and play it to the mindless idiots!

I hope the police use REAL force tonight and end this now.

[Stitch Up]

Emotional reactions to all that's happened are understandable. But, the reality is quite different.

I don't condone the violence in any way whatsoever however, I can understand some of the causes. Any politician that didn't foresee or anticipate civil unrest in the UK should be sacked.

The rich & greedy, the bankers & financial institutions, the politicians fiddling expenses, the tax evaders They've all sucked so much out of society and arguably cause more destruction and human tragedy than any of these rioters. The main difference is - they wear suits. Much of the destruction & tragedy they caused was illegal & lawless, but they're beyond the law - out of reach.

Due to the financial cutbacks caused by the suite wearing greedy men & women, those with absolutely no hope are dealt some of the biggest blows:-

youth schemes abandoned
social centres closed
support schemes wound up
police budgets slashed
social services slashed

I consider myself one of the lucky ones! Firstly, my parents taught me right from wrong. They ensured I went to school. We had a very loving and caring family. Our neighbours were the same and our environment was safe & happy.

What would I be, if I had none of the above, if I had no parental direction, no education, no money, lived in housing that's unfit for habitation and no hope? And with all this, I see politicians fiddling their expenses and many getting 'let off' because they pay it back. I see hideous bonuses being paid to the very people who suck the funding from the their support schemes.

I can only imagine how it must feel to have absolutely no hope & no future and you know what, I would quite possibly be one of those kids on the streets - except @ 58 I wouldn't qualify.

[Lee]

I know we are all entitled to our own opinion, but I'm sorry I just don't agree. Most of these people are scroaty youths that have have never done a days work in their life and probably never will do! They have simply saw an opportunity to get summat for nothing perhaps using the excuse that nasty government reduced their freebies so they have to go and pillage and steal and cause trouble to decent law abiding citizens that are paying into the nationl kitty to fund their scroaty lifestyle anyway?? I'm not happy with the government but I dont take to the streets and riot and pillage! There's nothing wrong showing unity and descent with peaceful demonstration - and they would have probably got more public support - as it is, there doesn't seem to be much support - in fact, it appears to be the opposite, with people asking why the government aren't doing more to stop this. If you asked most of the trouble makers what the cause is, they probably wouldnt know (and they probably wouldnt understand the question, even after smashing a window at WHSmith and nicking a dictionary!).

Water cannons and plastic bullets I say.

[John G]

I can only imagine how it must feel to have absolutely no hope & no future

Don't agree with most of the above apart from a loving family - its got nothing to do with politicians. The kids these days have a hell of a lot more than what we had as kids, fantastic - free youth clubs, community centres, free holidays, free use of the swimming pools - the list of things for them to do is endless and the majority of it is for free - this is down to the government.

The future is what you make it - these people sit on their arses and expect the state to look after them. The majority of these looters don't have jobs because they don't want to work - They simply take or steal of others.

Think its time to start national service again - the army would soon sort them out!

[Lee]

they don't want to work

I still cant understand why we give out benefits to people who don't seriously look for work.... to the 'im not doing that job' brigade........! The government have massively contributed to this attitude by letting them get away with murder! Surely enough is enough!

[Andrew]

I don't agree with the Civil Unrest tag either....... opportunistic scum is all they are. They are more than likely thieving, shoplifting, lawless barstewards before these riots began and found an easy route to get their next months worth of robbing done in a few nights. There will be others getting dragged into it with the "mob rule" element but I'd bet that the vast majority would never be looking to set foot in a youth club anyway. As we have seen on some of the interviews, they are doing it because they can. The people who jointly decide the tactics on how the Police deal with these incidents got it wrong allowing it to escalate. I wouldn't fancy being front line police and having to take the violent attacks and then showing all of that restraint that they have done so. After the likes of the G20 they can't win.

[Paul]

i dont think its anything to do woth politics :(
They just use this one one the million oportunity to stole new ipod, plasma tv etc....! I never had ferrari. is politics good enough excuse to just go there and stole one??? Go to work lazy ^%$&@@!!!


If you asked most of the trouble makers what the cause is, they probably wouldnt know (and they probably wouldnt understand the question, even after smashing a window at WHSmith and nicking a dictionary!).

Water cannons and plastic bullets I say.

agree!!! but i would swap plastic bullets for iron. ruber amunition make them even more angry! iron make them silence and make us happy!

[Justin]

http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/#.TkJNOcfT8cw.facebook

L (http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/#.TkJNOcfT8cw.facebook)ighten the mood a litte and take the P*ss out of thes idiots.....be sure to check out the 2nd page.

[Stitch Up]

You don't have to apologise for expressing your opinion, as you said, we're all entitled to have one. I agree, many are just criminals who hi-jacked a peaceful vigil.

You said, "Most of these people are scroaty youths that have have never done a days work in their life and probably never will do!"

I ask, "What jobs should they do, where are they advertised and what qualifications are required?"

It's all to simplistic to suggest 'they should get a job' even though that's a big answer to many of the underlying problems. But what jobs? Do you mean the jobs that are taken by illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe & other countries that unscrupulous employers take on at illegally low pay levels? Or should they submit their CVs and take their chances with the 42 others that apply for the same job?

There are big differences between those who live in utter squalor, without parental control & without the love and structure of a family, without a job and no hope of getting one to me and very likel you too. So before you can suggest a solution, you must discover the root cause of the troubles. If you don't believe there are any underlying causes then there's no remedy. Life goes on. Lets line them up and shoot them.

[Paul]

But what jobs? Do you mean the jobs that are taken by illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe & other countries that unscrupulous employers take on at illegally low pay levels? Or should they submit their CVs and take their chances with the 42 others that apply for the same job?

:o :eek:
pick one of those thieving scumbacs and put him next to me. will se who will write better cv...

[Lee]

What jobs should they do, where are they advertised and what qualifications are required?"

Okay jobs are abit tighter than than before - but look at job sites to see the THOUSANDS available, nevermind the ones advertised in local shop windows in shopping preceints all the time for example... Just one search on Monster specifying no education level and no experience revealed 939 jobs available.... the problem is, these people dont want to work.

[Andrew]

There are jobs out there to be found (might be not for everyone) but it is starting off at the bottom which many don't want to do these days. We have just placed adverts for 3 apprentices ourselves. The problem is many now expect all of the gadgets going straightaway which can't be funded by starting on the bottom rung of the ladder. Many don't even try and just use the line "there's no jobs out there" to easily without even making an effort. They have the attitude the world owes them a living.

Thankfully, most youngsters are decent so these rioters are just a small element but one that has large effect on communities with their bad attitude toward life. Everyone has a choice on what path they choose, even those who are deemed at the bottom of the class ladder. How you get that message accross though is beyond me.

[Stitch Up]

This is the problem Andrew 'their bad attitude toward life'. How did they get this bad attitude, they weren't born with it. Many of them have probably been abandoned by their parents or come from badly dysfunctional families. They have little or no education they've never experienced any discipline, not at home (if they have one) and not in school, they're basically unemployable! I wouldn't employ them and I'd guess, neither would you. So what do you do with them? Forget them and hope they just go away, the problem is, do that and we're seeing the consequences.

Did you see the sickening scene of a youth with blood pouring from his mouth, surrounded by his 'supposed' helpers who were in fact robbing him! How can society deal with that - lock 'em up - doesn't work! Where would you lock 'em up? One of our already overcrowded prisons where staffing levels have been reduced to dangerously low numbers to save money? Put them in a home for bad kids, they probably already are.

I haven't got much clue how I'd deal with them but withdrawing youth projects and youth clubs to save money simply makes the likelihood of civil unrest worse. I'd probably introduce some sort of national conscription - 2 years of meaningful work improving our society/environment coupled with some good robust discipline.

If I had the answer, I'd be a politician.

[Lee]

If I had the answer, I'd be a politician.

ermmm.....that kinda implies our current politicians have the answer..........! Still no excuse to do what they are doing. Heavy, final force is required.

[jennywren]

thousand of children past and present, bad parents, and endless categorised of abuse, some had had no parents and the state has had to bring them up. I should image there is quite a few stories people on the forum can tell, but in the end we choices and not everybody that's had a crap life goes astray, there is housing benefit, child benefit and the hundreds of benefits that are available, which are available, even in the depression there was no mass rush to take what the shops had, individuals thefts yes. No work was available then. Millions of people starving in the third world that would love to have benefits, accommodation hospital, ect, So there is NO excuse. We all know that nothing changes and when this is all over it will cost us more money in taxes. There is no solution and I never thought I would say this but just for a year I love a dictatorship just to get on track.

[Ian M]

I can speak from experience at being the target of yobs & idiots such as these. Up until just over a year ago I had the partner & kids of one of Bradfords biggest drug dealers living next door to me. They had a dog which barked for upto 12 hours a day 7 days a week, screaming kids all day long, banging on the joining walls both day & night, loud music & even verbal abuse being shouted at me all the time. I complained to the police & to the enviromental health people at the council. Now this is the best bit because I tried to stand up to them it soon became open season on me. In the space of 2 years I had to replace 6 bedroom windows, 2 front room windows, 6 rear windows, 1 windscreen on my car plus they damaged the roof, boot, bonnet, & a front wing on my car. They also damaged & managed to write off my 45 year old classic rally car which was just one of 5 built. In total the cost came to around £50,000 for all the damage. In the end one evening we had 2 of the drug dealers thugs come & threaten to kill us & I have never been as scared in all my life.

Now, the drug dealer wasn't doing all the damage he was paying a gang of yobs who lived near us to all the damage etc for him. This gang were very much like the yobs we have seen over the last few days & after 3 long years of trouble from them we managed to get ASBO's on most of them. Luckily the ASBO's were done in such a way as to exclude these low life morans from the area which meant they & their families had to move home well away from the area. Each one of these yobs had parents who had exactly the same mentality as their kids & it was so clear to see where the kids got it all from. One family would think nothing of buying their 3 lads off road motorbikes, scooters & even cars to drive around without ever passing a test because they were under age. The reason why their kids needed to be mobile is so they could deliver drugs for their parents. I found out that this family were getting just over £1,000 per week in benefits because they knew how to beat the system. On top of all this the mother sold Avon cosmetics & the father had a nice painting & decorating business. The mother drove around in a brand new Land-Rover Freelander & the father had a brand new BMW M3.

Most of the time the local councillors didn't want to get involved, the police hardly ever took statements & on average the police would take from 8 to 20 hours to attend our 999 calls. I wrote to the local MP who would then contact the police to ask why nothing was being done & all he would get back is a letter saying I should really just stop complaining. The enviromental health officer who was investigating the noise problems decided she was just like the woman next door & sided with her all because they were both mixed race & had 3 kids each & thus that must mean in short I'm racist which I'm not.

The other week I went to out local residents forum which the council organise & because I stood up to the council officals who kept cutting me off whilst I was speaking the local police sargent threatened to have me thrown out of the meeting & then have me arrested.

Now I have given you all some background I for one can safely say that one of the main problems today that causes these kind of idiots to do what they have done is nobody listens to the law abiding people like us. The police don't listen all they are interested in these days is statistics. If too many people report things the stats go up but, if they demorolise the people who do report things they will soon stop & the stats go down which is what the officers at the top want. The councillors just want to have the title without doing much work & to collect their £14,000 per year pay. They also want to use it as a stepping stone to become an MP at some point. We had one such councillor here in Bradford a few years ago who was the council leader & made some almighty cock-ups & his name is Eric Pickles. Our local MP is more interested in increasing tuition fees & looking good in photo shoots.

The police, the politicians, the councils atc need to talk to the people young & old to get an idea of what really is going on.

In one of the London boroughs where there was trouble one of the youth workers said the government had cut their budget by 75% & they had to close the youth centre down. He said that most of the yobs causing the trouble would have been in that youth centre & the youth leaders such as him could nip things like this in the bud. This means that because of the cuts these youths are now in gangs on the streets with nobody to watch over them or over hear things they are planning.

The government are going to cut the Met Police by 2,000 officers after the Olympics. We had just 6,000 police officers in London the other night & they couldn't cope so how on earth are they going to manage in a similar situation with just 4,000?

David Cameron said today that water cannon could be deployed in 24 hours if needed. Now imagine your shop is being looted & burnt to the ground but, don't worry because at the same time tomorrow they'll have a water cannon there. Why the hell arn't they using plastic/rubber bullets, tear gas or CS gas when they have them to hand? If one of these yobs gets killed by a rubber/plastic bullet tough is what I say & would make room in a cell for one of his mates.

[Lee]

They don't want to appear heavy handed etc etc....BUT what about the inocent people on the receiving end of the heavy handed violence? It seems to me that once again this country has got its priorities wrong. This government, like the last is a bleedin' joke. It needs someone to have the courage of their convictions and sort this mess out.

Saying that, the rain will probably do that for them, but they need to ensure people stay off the streets.

[Stitch Up]

ermmm.....that kinda implies our current politicians have the answer..........! Still no excuse to do what they are doing. Heavy, final force is required.

How on earth does my comment imply politicians have the answer? They absolutely don't and neither have previous governments. All we get from them are 'knee-jerk' reactions in an attempt to pacify the majority! Your right, there's no excuse, but unless someone spends time getting to some of the root causes and putting them right, it'll just continue into a whirlpool of lawlessness.

Did you see the fottage on TV tonight. Cops chasing a gang of stone throwing youths? They caught one and gave him a bit of a bashing. Guess what, Manchester police are investigating the matter and no doubt some minority 'do good' group(s) will force them to be disciplined and maybe lose their jobs.

[Lee]

If I had the answer, I'd be a politician.

That kinda implies politician have the answer... :biggrin:

I agree though, some scroat will claim and win - question time is gonna be interesting this week, Id love to be in that audience!

[Stitch Up]

And unrelated but nonetheless an indication of how the UK justice systme is worked.

See this guy? Recognise him?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00657/news-graphics-2008-_657048a.jpg

Probably an extreme example of how bad things can get unless this country addresses the problems the government prefer not to address.

Lawyers acting for the killer of Milly Dowler are negotiating with the Prison Service over how much compensation he should receive for being attacked in jail.

The prison authorities have admitted full liability for the assault on Levi Bellfield with a makeshift weapon, but a figure for compensation is yet to be agreed, said Jeremy Moore of Carter Moore solicitors.
Reports said Bellfield, who suffered facial injuries, is demanding £30,000. He was jailed for life in June after being convicted of murdering the schoolgirl in 2002.

[Lee]

say no more. ludicrous!

[jennywren]

Saying that, the rain will probably do that for them, but they need to ensure people stay off the streets.[/QUOTE]

That's is probably the answer to this, at least it will keep the fires out and the yobs indoors as they hate to get their expensive hair cuts ruined, plus they won't look so good on Facebook when they pose with their loot

[Paul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgXpNqT2kJE

[John G]

If that's what it takes, that's what it takes. I wouldn't bother with the rubber bullets though - use real ones.

[Paul]

same here... no marcy for that morons...

[Lee]

the only thing that bugged me on this footage is why let him go?? He will now go and tell his cronnies and this will create more bad feeling and destruction. They should be locked up and taken off the streets....not allowed to carry on...