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barryslip
10-09-2011, 10:26 AM
Hi everyone

I'm in the Market for a new printer and currently trying to decide between an Epson or a Ricoh.

Whilst trying to decide, I've asked a couple of people on the DSF to print a mug for me, using 2 of my images. This allows me to compare different printers and inks - information which I will share once I've received them!

So far I've got 5 mugs printed with varying Epson printers (some "supported" and some not) and a Ricoh.

What I would like to add to the collection is a mug printed on a supported Epson printer with official Sawgrass inks. Preferably a printer which is currently available.

I'm happy to cover the cost if printing if anyone can help?

The mug could even be an imperfection if you have one! I'll even take one with a missing handle!!!!

Could you please post here (or PM me) if you are able to help, and also which printer and ink you use.

I hope that makes sense? Typing from an iPhone, so I'm sure my grammar isn't perfect!

Cheers in advance

Barry

Lee
10-09-2011, 10:29 AM
wow you are going into detail! I know where there is a Ricoh going up for sale soon ;-)

JSR
11-09-2011, 11:41 AM
Given that you've had five mugs printed so far, aren't any of them good enough? I wonder why you need further mugs from other printers. If one of the five you have is good enough, then aren't you just making your decision tougher by adding even more choices to the pot?

Unfortunately, I can't help with your quest as I use Brother printers these days.

The quality/accuracy of print doesn't really have a lot to do with the actual printer or ink. You could have five mugs from five Epson R1400 printers all using Sawgrass inks and the Sawgrass profile, and they could all look different.

What matters is how good the profile is for the printer/inkset.

For example, I have two Epson R1400 printers here but each one has to use a different Sawgrass profile when using Sawgrass inks and, even then, a certain amount of pre-print tweaking is required. If I try to use the same profile on both R1400s, then the results are poles apart.

I also have an Epson 1290S here which, when running, used Sawgrass inks and Sawgrass profile but I had to desaturate the print by at least 20% to get something that looked realistic. Likewise, I have an Epson B40W here that (before it was blocked) printed with a horrible green cast when using Sawgrass inks with the Sawgrass profile, yet it's not common for the B40W to have a green cast - so someone else's print from a B40W with Sawgrass inks and Sawgrass profile would look totally different.

After custom-profiling, the Epson B40W and my current Brother produced identical results - even though they are completely different printers, with completely different inksets. So you can see that it doesn't really matter what others are producing on their printers with their inksets and their profiles, because what you get using the same model printer with the same ink and the same supplied profile might be entirely different. The important factor is the profile, not the printer and not the inkset.

barryslip
12-09-2011, 11:36 AM
Thanks for the comments JSR.

Of the 5 mugs I've got here, the Ricoh is an absolute winner in terms of colour accuracy and photo quality. BUT, it's pitched against a combination of good-printer/cheap-ink, cheap-printer/sawgrass-ink all with custom profiles. So a comparison between a supported Epson using Sawgrass inks and a Sawgrass profile should complete the picture.

I totally agree that the profile is one key factor here - I've used 2 D120s which required different profiles, and still produced different quality images. And currently using an S21! Maybe I AM being too picky in my request then!

From the mugs I have here, the image quality on the Epsons is nowhere near as good as the Ricoh. This is where my thought process began - do you really get what you pay for? - i.e. is the more expensive (£/ml) Ricoh better than any of the "supported" Epsons. Looking at other posts on here, people are either pro-Ricoh or pro-Epson, but it seems that no-one has ever done comparisons. I think a comparison between various printers/inks/profiles would be helpful to everyone.

Andrew
12-09-2011, 12:18 PM
As JSR mentions, it's largely down to profile used and not the printer. For instance, in the old days when we had R1800's we had been using Sublijet ink and Powerdriver software with superb results. We set one up with artainium and relevant sawgrass profile and it was knowhere near as good....... all from the same printer.

Both the Ricoh and Epson printers used in sublimation are capable of producing better prints than what profile capabilities Sawgrass brings to the table. That is the limitation not the printer imo.

JSR
12-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I'm surprised that the prints from the Epsons are so bad. I wonder what settings were used? Sometimes Sawgrass recommends using "plain paper" settings. That in combination with high speed printing turned on and an inadequate profile would probably produce poor prints. I always used my Epsons on a higher quality paper setting and with high speed printing turned off, and you couldn't possibly say it was a poor print.

Colour accuracy is entirely down to the colour-correction profile. The cheaper the printer is, the more likely it is to deviate from manufacturing tolerances, and the more likely an off-the-shelf profile supplied by the ink manufacturer is likely to produce poor results. This would be true regardless of whether the printer is an Epson or a Ricoh, or anything else.

I'll be interested to read the results of your comparison when you post them. Be sure to include all details, such as printer settings, together with printer used, ink used, and profile used. I'm sure it'll be an eye-opener to everyone.

Paul
12-09-2011, 03:03 PM
Ricog beeter qulity then epson?? I hear this first time in my life... love to see few mug prited each with diferent rocoh...

barryslip
12-09-2011, 03:40 PM
I'm just stating that of the 5 mugs I have in front of me, the Ricoh is the best of them in terms of image clarity and colour likeness. I didn't really want to get into a debate (as I said before there are Ricoh fans and there are Epson fans!), but just wanted to see some results to compare for myself. I agree, the colour likeness is down to the profile, but even looking at 2 of these mugs that have been printed on custom-profiled printers, they are aren't as good as the Ricoh. And as for image quality, the Ricoh has produced a better photograph than the Epsons.

I'm not saying the the Epsons have produced bad results. On their own, they all look OK. Lining them all up side by side, I know which one I'd prefer to buy as a customer.

JSR - I'd be interested to see a mug printed with your B40W to add to my comparison :)

JSR
12-09-2011, 03:58 PM
I'm just stating that of the 5 mugs I have in front of me, the Ricoh is the best of them in terms of image clarity and colour likeness. I didn't really want to get into a debate (as I said before there are Ricoh fans and there are Epson fans!), but just wanted to see some results to compare for myself. I agree, the colour likeness is down to the profile, but even looking at 2 of these mugs that have been printed on custom-profiled printers, they are aren't as good as the Ricoh. And as for image quality, the Ricoh has produced a better photograph than the Epsons.

I'm not saying the the Epsons have produced bad results. On their own, they all look OK. Lining them all up side by side, I know which one I'd prefer to buy as a customer.
Are all of your samples printed on the same type/brand/coated mug? I've noticed a difference between non-dishwasher safe 11oz mugs and dishwasher safe 10oz mugs (the non dishwasher don't seem to produce as sharp a print as a dishwasher mug does) . I've noticed a difference between Orca-coated mugs and RN-coated mugs (because Orca coated mugs have a white coating, while RN is clear).

I take it all the sample mugs have the same photo/design on them? I've noticed a huge difference between dark images with shadows and bright images with high contrast. Due to the low gamut of dye-sub inks, there are difficulties in producing certain ranges of colour. Likewise, a poorly-profiled 4-ink printer may have difficulty printing light gradients (like sky) while the same printer with a profile optimised for that image will produce perfect results.

I'm not interested in any Epson vs Ricoh debate, I'm just interested in seeing your comparison results - but they must be comparing apples with apples, otherwise the comparison won't really mean much.


JSR - I'd be interested to see a mug printed with your B40W to add to my comparison :)
I haven't used the B40W for 8 months. The cyan blocked around Christmas and I haven't bothered to deal with it yet. I should do, I guess.

Here's a comparison photo I did when the B40W was working (after I corrected the horrendous green cast):

http://www.mugsandgifts.co.uk/offsite/mug_compare.jpg

(Photo was taken 11pm at night with a flash and one of those useless economy bulbs overhead, so it's not as good as it might be.)

Paul
12-09-2011, 05:04 PM
barry! dont look on my mug mate :) noticed i had one nozlle slightly blocked lol and used elements to print :)

barryslip
12-09-2011, 06:26 PM
barry! dont look on my mug mate :) noticed i had one nozlle slightly blocked lol and used elements to print :)

OK - thanks Paul!

JSR - yes, all mugs contain the same 2 images. I can't say just yet which mugs they were all printed on though - I need to contact the guys who did them for me. Your mugs do look good, and yes, identical results as far as I can tell.

Is there anyone else willing to print my 2 images onto a mug (I'll cover the costs), as the ones I have (as Paul said above) may not have printed correctly. I'm sure Epsons can do a brilliant job, it's just at the moment, I don't have a printed mug that is up to the level of the Ricoh printed one.