New to mug sublimation - advice needed

[Allan]

Hello,

I am new to sublimation and after pressing several test mugs I need some advice. I haven't been able to get consistent results out of the mug press and don't know whether to blame it because it was just a cheap model from ebay.

My set up is:

Ricox GX7000
mug press from ebay

It took me a while to get the colour right in Photoshop but after several mugs I finally was happy with the colours of the images on the mug. So no problem with colour profiles or printer at the moment.

I was having problems with the images fading on the edges a bit but I understand that, sometimes it's due to not placing the mug quite right, I also figured out that the mug press places more pressure on the left side of the mug so I place it slightly more towards the right side of the handle to counteract it.

Main problem is the intensity of the image (I don't know how to describe it best). I started with 140s at 170 C. Some images had lighter stripes in them, especially in the darker areas, where you can see that not all the ink from the print has gone onto the mug. I thought it was due to not leaving the mug in long enough for all the ink to sublimate onto the mug, so I increased the time, first to 150s, then 180s and finaly to 190s. 2 mugs at 190s came out quite nice and I was reasonably happy with them, but thought another 20s might help. So the next day I pressed a mug with the same image for 210s but it came out really fuzzy, as if there were white dots where the colour should have been solid and not very sharp. So I reverted back to 190s where I thought the mugs came out nicely, but when I pressed the mug at 190s it had the lighter stripes in again, the same as another mug which I pressed only for 150s. Also only one part of the mug was affected (the centre part opposite the handle), the rest of the mug was fine. On other mugs the stripes could appear in different places. I am really confused now, and can't figure out what to do next.

I dip the mugs into hot water after pressing, it does seem to make the images sharper.

When I first brought the mug press it was really tight, I couldn't even close it with a mug inside it. I loosened it a bit, but still was having problems closing it with a mug in, so I loosened it a bit more. Now I would like to experiment with adding a bit more pressure but I can't tighten the press for some reason.

Can anybody please advise what could be the problem? Is the problem with the lighter stripes in the dark areas of the image common? Any help is appreciated because I need to be able to produce consistent results. I know it is easy to blame the press but at the moment it feels like I'm doing everything right and just can't get the results out of the press.

Thanks in advance, Allan

[cardman]

hi m8 have u got a pic available of a mug that is faded so can see the results ?

I leave mine in for 180s full pressure and i still sometimes get faded around the edges

[accdave]

Standard questions first, which mug press, mugs, paper and ink ?

[John G]

Start at 180 / 180 and work downwards, especially for a Ricoh printer as the blacks don't like to be overcooked.

Are you using the powerdriver - you shouldn't have to adjust anything in photoshop - the colours should be spot on.
What mugs and paper are you using?
What press?
Photo's may help.

I keep away from top bottom and handle.

Cheers John

[Allan]

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

Paper is Signal Transfer Paper for Dye Sublimation Printing 120g
Mug press is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120836712912
Ink is from BMS

I've attached photos:

1) 210s at 170 C - white bits appearing in solid colour not very sharp image

2) 190s at 170 C but also on mugs at 150s and shorter - faded lines across parts of image

Thank you in advance for any input, would love to get my pressing right.

[John G]

Doesn't look good at all - are you using powerdriver and printing on right side of paper.
I've never used signal paper so don't know if its any good - where are mug from.

[Allan]

Thank you very much for your reply.

Mugs are from BMS too - European Mug.
I don't use powerdriver at the moment, I colour correct in Photoshop.

I don't think it is to do with the printer at this stage because I was able to produce two mugs that I was reasonably happy with colour-wise and sharpness-wise. (I'm not sure what standard they should be at as I haven't really seen a sublimated mug pressed in another press. The ones I ordered from Jessops in the past didn't look that good to be honest). What worries me is that I wasn't able to reproduce that result on another lot of mugs the next day under the same settings.

The pictures are a bit blurred as a photograph because they are close ups of a particular part of the mug, they don't stretch over the full mug.

What concerns me are the faded lines across the second picture, most visible in the boy's hair, because that was on most of the mugs I pressed, sometimes more visible like here, sometimes almost invisible but still there because I can see it on what's left of the template.

Also, what happens to the images when you leave them in too long - is there any general rule what happens?

Thank you for your help.

[John G]

I can't see the reason why you don't want to use powerdriver - its free, and this is what makes the printer use the right mix, or profile, for the ink.

Setting up in PS - every photo would be different and therefore your results wouldn't be the same.

If you leave sublijet-R gel inks cooking too long, the blacks go off or browny - no need to go over 180 seconds/180 temp - BMS recommend a lot less.

[Ian M]

Allan,

I use Signal Inkjet Dye Sub Paper & always get great results with it. So, I think we can rule out the paper.

Your mug does need to be fairly tight in the press to get good results. You do really need to be using the Power Driver on your printer as this will do all the work for you as far as colours etc.

As for times & temps you should be using might be a good idea just to call BMS for their advice regarding these & your problem.

[Paul]

welcome on forum ;)

[Earl Smith]

Im new to this forum but been printing sublimation for around 5 years. Everything Ive learnt has been trial and error and a little help from where I bought my printer.
I was advised to press at 195C. The mugs goes cold/warm into the press ( which shows a temp of around 200c) , the temp then drops to around 150c and takes about 210 seconds to come back up to 195c. I then leave it at that temp for 30secs, no more or it burns. The magic being 195c for 20 to 30 seconds.
This has worked for me.
Earl

[bms]

Are you printing onto the correct side of the paper? There should be a brighter side which is put face down in the paper tray.
Also, you should be using PowerDriver for best vibrancy rather than tweaking Photoshop. You can download PowerDriver from this link:
http://www.sawgrasseurope.com/technical-support/sublijet-r/power-drivers-icc-profiles

The lines in the second image look wierd - this may be the press. I would put a safety mug in your press, get it to 170 degrees, remove and put in your mug with the paper taped around it, press for 3 minutes (temp will fall as the mug goes in but rise again to 170 degrees) with reasonable pressure (enough so that the paper is tight against the mug face) and remove after the 3 mins has elapsed. This should give a good result. If the image is wavey or faded in parts then this may be the mug press.

[Allan]

Thank you very much for all your replies, it is all very useful info.

I think I will give PowerDriver a go - it might add more vibrancy, although colour-wise I was quite happy with the results, consistency was fine, I was giving it a bit more vibrancy through curves in Photoshop but as you say PowerDriver might give it even better results.

I am printing on the right side - smoother side downwards in the printer tray.

I do use a blank mug while heating the press up to 170. Then remove the blank mug and put slightly preheated mug with a template around it into the press and start the countdown.

I have now managed to tighten the press a bit so hopefully that will help.

The lines seem to have been a problem on most of the almost 30 mugs I have pressed, some quite visible like the ones on the picture, some less, on different parts of the image, but often in some form or another vertical stripes over the full wrap of the image. They seem to be less visible when I left the mug in longer.

Thanks again to you all for your help.

[Andrew]

170 is way to low imo. 190 would be better but all of this can depend on the press. From the photos I was actually going to say wrong side of paper due to the white grainy speckles but you say not. Anyway, higher temp as a starter and see how you get on and try and pre-heat the base of the mug to make your life easier.

[John G]

170 is way to low imo. 190
It may be too low with an epson - but with a Ricoh, it's spot on.

[bms]

170 is way to low imo. 190 would be better but all of this can depend on the press. From the photos I was actually going to say wrong side of paper due to the white grainy speckles but you say not. Anyway, higher temp as a starter and see how you get on and try and pre-heat the base of the mug to make your life easier.

190 with a Ricoh will cause the blacks to go brown, hence the lower temperatures recommended.

[Allan]

Thanks for your tips.

I do think I use the right side - there isn't really a glossy side to the paper, one side is smoother and a little bit brighter/shinier, so I put that facing downwards.

I too have read that the Ricoh needs lower temperatures and shorter time, that's why I started with that, thinking it'll save me time trying at higher temperatures which might not work.

I did feel though that some of the templates had in some places still ink visible on it when taken off the mug after pressing (usually in that stripy rhythm, equivalent to less colour on mug), especially in the dark shades, which seems to have become less prominant with more time added to pressing - that's why I kept increasing the time. At 210s colours didn't go browner, they stayed the same as at 180/190s but the image became less sharp and more white specs appeared in the dark tones.

The white specs are more visible on some of the mugs, but on most (even the ones at shorter time) the dark solid colours don't seem to be as full and smooth as I would like (if you know what I mean) especially if there is a gradient between two solid colours ex. black and green or black and dark red.

[Andrew]

190 with a Ricoh will cause the blacks to go brown, hence the lower temperatures recommended.


Never used a Ricoh so that is all new to me. Got one on my shelf sat there with subli ink so might have a play.... just not cost effective compared to wide format.

I would get a couple of tests done on the paper and you should be able to see before pressing the difference. Print 2 sheets on opposite sides to see.

[Allan]

Thanks Andrew for the advice, what is the difference in what appears on the mug when printed on the wrong side of the paper? Does it still sublimate and not smudge or something like that?

To Ian M - I brought Signal paper because I heard it's good as you say, can I ask you which side you print on - the smoother/brighter side?

[Paul]

best way to check witch side is coated lick to fingers and squeeze the paper ;) whichever side will tick more to the fingers is coated ;)

[Allan]

Thanks Paul, I will try that to make sure I'm printing on the right side.

[Ian M]

To Ian M - I brought Signal paper because I heard it's good as you say, can I ask you which side you print on - the smoother/brighter side?

Allan, it's the brighter white side. They always pack them so the side to print on is facing up under the cover label in the self seal bag. Always leave that printed label in the bag so you'll always know which side to print on.

[Allan]

Thank you for your reply Ian, that's what I thought. I've kept the label in so now that I know I don't have to worry about ever printing on the wrong side.

[flash baz]

sorry to stray off topic . but would you [or anyone!] advise this to be a good press? [i am thinking of purchasing one!]
or could your results be because of faulty heat readings?