screen printing, what's best? plasticol or waterbased?

[paula]

Hi guys!
I'm new to this screen printing stuff, I've bought a 2 colour carousel and have been using plasticol to print on t-shirts. so far, I don't like it! is there anything I can use to soften the ink or should I give waterbased a go? what's everyones preferences? does waterbased last?

thanks, Paula

[Justin]

Moved this into screen printing section ;-)

[Paul]

i think we have only 2 screen printers on here but i ma sure they will be here soon to say what they know :)
Plastisol is great imo for more opaque effects. I remember when i had a choice i when with plstisol too. i was happy with my results tho...

[AJLA]

I know what you mean re the results of plastisol Paula, we went this route a few years ago and bought the screen printing kit. Unfortunately at the time all we were doing was printing onto black shirts, we had a good practice run but the end result I didn't like. so we sold the equipment on. Now we are about to launch a few new ranges of different colours so dad has just bought a DTG, got to figure that one out now :rolleyes:

[Earl Smith]

I gave up screen printing about 10 years ago so Ive forgotten many of the techniques.
I used Plastisol because it didnt dry so quickly on the screen and could be left overnight. Water based had to be cleaned off or it dried solid in the screen. This usually meant that I had to take them off and run them under the high pressure washer to thoroughly clean them. Then the next day remount and aline.
There is a softener for plastisol but I forget the name. Maybe you are putting too much ink on the shirt? Are you using a fine mesh of around 55 to 77 and a sharp , new rubber in your squeegee? Sorry Ive forgotten the English name of the thing that you apply the inks with. ( Regelleta in Spanish).

Earl.

[Earl Smith]

Good luck with the DTG , ALJA.
Which one did you buy?

[AJLA]

Thanks Earl, which model ..erm it is an older one, I think its a Kiosk,

Mandy

[John G]

As Earl said above, water based is/was a nightmare with bits of ink drying while printing causing the screens to block and knacking the ink in the process - plastisol can be left on screen and it won't dry. Its been years since I used water based plastisol so it may have changed but I still use standard plastisol now and wouldn't even entertain water based.

Cheers John

PS: hope the DTG works out for you Mandy - keep it busy!

[AJLA]

I hope to John, fingers crossed.

[gavtheoldskater]

i've only used waterbased, works fine for me though admittedly i don't do very big runs or complicated designs.

[John G]

Waterbased is used in colleges/schools etc as its zero to low added chemicals, and washing the screen is easier using just water. I hated the stuff and skipped around 50L when I moved premises a few years back. Totally pointless on long runs, you spend more time picking crap out of the ink, changing the ink or cleaning blockages than printing.

[COMA]

Pastisol and waterbased colors have their own pros and cons:


Plastisol only polymerized in the oven so you can just leave the ink on the frame and does not dry. that's leave you more time to do whatever you need to do, however you need an oven or a heat gun.
Waterbased colors have a "softer touch", but it may easily look chalky due to the fact that they are less opaque than plastisol and need more passes with squeege on the frame. they dries with just the air so it is a pain to print!!

[GoldRapt]

I only just saw this post after it was resurrected by Coma (thanks for that)
I just bought a one colour machine to do white bases on dark t-shirt for airbrush work.
Airbrush paint is water based so I have been looking around for a complimentary water based ink which I believe I have found
It is called Permaset
http://www.permaset.com.au/

I don't know if anyone has used this ink but allegedly it is top notch.
I also didn't know one could buy a 2 colour press, I bought a one colour, based on need and funds, but if the 2 colour was affordable I might have been tempted :-)

[Paul]

Make one youself :-)
I build for color one :-)

[COMA]

i bought a 4to1 press from china for less than 400€ including VAT and customs. I'm very happy with it, althought it has no microregistration. It's a very solid press and stand in place when you put down the frame.

[GoldRapt]

I would like to see pictures of your self build please Paul, did you buy plans or something?
Coma, also, any pictures?

[Paul]

www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/showthread.php?4536-DIY-project-screen-printing-press&highlight=project

[gavtheoldskater]

I don't know if anyone has used this ink but allegedly it is top notch.

yes, i have just started using permaset inks both the aqua (fabric) and permaprint (paper/board ink).

both inks are really good, the fabric prints have a really nice soft feel. i've even printed onto lycra and it stretches to oblivion with no cracking. the opaque flavour, supercover, definitely works on darks but its really thick. took me a few goes to get used to. on one run i thinned it a little and it was much better.

the permaprint also is really versatile, i've printed onto plastic bags and even stickers for outdoor use with no issues.

the only negatives, firstly price.. it is expensive but the last supplier i used did own brand inks that were cheap but so inconsistent it was incredible. secondly it dries on the screen faster than anything i've ever used. admittedly there may be a solution and i've yet to call the supplier steve-wood.co.uk who are super helpful, but i've been using water-based inks for over a year and nothing has ever dried out quicker than this stuff.

for what its worth i've also been using some apollo neptune wa ink recently, it also works well but is only suited to cottons and needs to be heat cured. does'nt dry on the screen anywhere near as much as the permaset but the colours are not as strong nor as opaque. quite nice if you want an ever so slightly washed out retro feel type look from the outside though.

[GoldRapt]

Thanks, I have added to that very interesting thread.

[GoldRapt]

yes, i have just started using permaset inks both the aqua (fabric) and permaprint (paper/board ink).

both inks are really good, the fabric prints have a really nice soft feel. i've even printed onto lycra and it stretches to oblivion with no cracking. the opaque flavour, supercover, definitely works on darks but its really thick. took me a few goes to get used to. on one run i thinned it a little and it was much better.

the permaprint also is really versatile, i've printed onto plastic bags and even stickers for outdoor use with no issues.

the only negatives, firstly price.. it is expensive but the last supplier i used did own brand inks that were cheap but so inconsistent it was incredible. secondly it dries on the screen faster than anything i've ever used. admittedly there may be a solution and i've yet to call the supplier steve-wood.co.uk who are super helpful, but i've been using water-based inks for over a year and nothing has ever dried out quicker than this stuff.

for what its worth i've also been using some apollo neptune wa ink recently, it also works well but is only suited to cottons and needs to be heat cured. does'nt dry on the screen anywhere near as much as the permaset but the colours are not as strong nor as opaque. quite nice if you want an ever so slightly washed out retro feel type look from the outside though.

Thanks for the share, I would have thought permaset would have had some sort of reducer to combat the fast drying.
How expensive is expensice? I await the local rep from west designs to put the catalogue through my letter box


Just rang the guy at the link you gave, steve seemed a very helpful guy to deal with.
It would appear that drying time can be increased by adding a retarder, or spraying atomised water over the flooded screen after a pass.
He's sending me a price list which should be interesting to read.

[gavtheoldskater]

the other thing i thought of regarding permaset is that, and upon the advice of steve as well, you need to use an emulsion that can cope with waterbased inks. i did some Ts when i first picked up some permaset aqua using a screen prepared with murkami emulsion that i'd always used and after 30 shirts the screen was losing fine detail. anyhow, i'm now working through a pot of dzwr and although much harder to strip off the screen than murkami (i just used an organic emulsion remover on that) the resiliance to ink is excellent and the quality of the screen in terms of fine detail and edges) itself far superior.

[GoldRapt]

That's good to know but for me and what I'm planning to doat the start, some vinyl cut out as a mask will do.
How many items in a run do you do with permaset and is it only t-shirts or have you tried other substrates?

[COMA]

1189 Here it is

[GoldRapt]

Looks good, didn't it come with a table?

[COMA]

nope. but you can set it on any table with 4 plugs

[gavtheoldskater]

we do runs of Ts up to 30, i don't really do more than that in one go mainly because we dry with a heat press and although i can knock out 30 shirts in hardly any time the drying is 2m20s each shirt (at 150deg).

i've used permaset aqua on cotton, canvas, paper and lycra. permaset permaprint on wood, paper, vinyl and plastic bags - and with those i scrunched the print up as nastily as i could and there was no flaking, cracking or anything.

have a look on youtube, there's some clips of it being screened onto different materials.

[GoldRapt]

yes, i have just started using permaset inks both the aqua (fabric) and permaprint (paper/board ink)...................

supplier steve-wood.co.uk who are super helpful,

Hi gav, I rang steve woods and bought a starter set of the permatione.
I gave your name as the referrer, from this thread.

[Greg]

I'm with the waterbased camp. I'm not really into the look or texture of the plastisols