Schulze (Blue-Line) 4-way press / get what you pay for?

[Postcard]

This is a spin-off thread about Schulze presses from Serigraf. Does anyone have knowledge/ experience of these presses? The entry point for the single press is 475.00 euro. We have just came back from a trip to Dublin to see the four-way in action. (€1200) Looks solid, samples look great, Serigraf really helpful - however we have nothing to compare these presses with as we havent seen any others. (Only suppliers in Ireland)

We need to do volume runs and basically run the presses constantly five days a week on occasion. We are thinking of starting with two single presses. Realistically what should we expect to pay for a reliable press that will output quality results and handle a constant work rate? Presses range from £100.00 to £450. Do you get what you pay for in this game??

[Justin]

I think you'll find a lot of information will be doubled up with the thread but it is a good idea to try and get specific information on this supplier.

[RogerC]

good kit from a reliable supplier with good backup service is IMO worth paying extra for.........ie......cheap from who knows where or bit more expense from Mr Good Service?
Mr GS gets my money every time.

[Postcard]

good kit from a reliable supplier with good backup service is IMO worth paying extra for.........ie......cheap from who knows where or bit more expense from Mr Good Service?
Mr GS gets my money every time.
I fully agree with you. I'm really impressed with Serigraf themselves - and we like the idea of on-island support for our kit so we consider that worth it. However we just need to look carefully at dropping 900 euro (710 sterling) for two presses if there are viable alternatives for the work rate we require.

[Justin]

I started working with 2 single head presses and it makes a huge difference. Certainly separate presses would do exactly the same job for half the price.

[Postcard]

Well that is the price for two separate presses as they are currently €475.00 each. Actually my mistake, thats 750.00 sterling for two individual presses. I understand we could source two DF14s for £600.00 from BMS (plus discount....?)

[Justin]

DF1 press @ £125+vat.....buy a few and have a spare! lol.

I have an Adkins mug press and the quality is second to none, but you pay for the quality and tbh my £100 mug press does a decent enough job.

[bms]

Well that is the price for two separate presses as they are currently €475.00 each. Actually my mistake, thats 750.00 sterling for two individual presses. I understand we could source two DF14s for £600.00 from BMS (plus discount....?)
As you're a DSF premium member then you'll get £50 off the normal price of the DF14's, saving £100 in total and bringing the price down to £275 +vat each.

With any press one of the important factors is the cost of replacement blankets. The two standard blankets that come with the DF14 (not the additional 2 latte blankets) are £35 +vat each but if you look after these then they'll last some time.

[Postcard]

DF1 press @ £125+vat.....buy a few and have a spare! lol.
Appreciate. However that's what I've come to the forum for advice for. We are trying to gauge what we need to spend on a press for it to reliably handle a heavy commercial work rate?

[Justin]

When you say a constant work rate, what sort of numbers are you talking about?

[Postcard]

Initial order min. 1000 which we will need to produce in a few days. Thereafter variable/ same, seasonal.

[bms]

Initial order min. 1000 which we will need to produce in a few days. Thereafter variable/ same, seasonal.
I don't see that would be a problem - we have a customer that has a number of DF1 mug presses and had around 15,000 mugs from us in the past couple of months.

[Postcard]

I have an Adkins mug press and the quality is second to none, but you pay for the quality and tbh my £100 mug press does a decent enough job.

Thanks Justin, thats valuable info. 'decent enough job' v 'second to none' is what will sway our decision. Willing to invest in kit to obtain latter.

[Heatpressuk]

As an importer and product repairer it is good to deal with companies who have a machine they manufacture as they would then be able to back the product up. Having repaired a number of different machines we do understand the mechanism of the a press so I can comment that quality does matter and you do get what you pay for.

The cheap models are normally what you call bought of the shelf from china and are the pick of the day of what has been manufactured in high quantities. These machines are not produced for longevity, the workmanship is not consistent and sometimes the welds and electrics are not of good quality. Last year a local chap brought in one of the cheapest of cheap mug press bought on eBay to see if it could be repaired. When we opened it up it did not have a thermostat and wiring quality not good deeming it not repairable. It was quite unbelievable that such an unsafe product could be sold.

Sticking to companies who are willing to help and back up their product is much better. I like machines that are for eg. when something needs repairing that particular part can be taken off and sent back. This makes the product easy to send anywhere and shipping costs for the customer and seller reasonable. I'll give you another example we repaired a companies press that was something like 10 years old, excellent quality and we managed to source the spares and my partner who is a wiz with things like this repaired no problem. The machine weighed a ton and must've cost the company a bomb to cart it to us and back.

Keep that in mind when buying, if Serigaf is in driving distance the price would be worth paying. Their machines look like good quality similarly the same as Aadkins, Geo Knightley and Europa. Find out about the warranty and how is works thats the main backup you need. When it comes to pressing for eg with sublimation Sawgrass website is the best not only for this but for growing your business in numerous ways. They have free webinars etc when you sign up and even if you don't use sublimation using their knowledge in general business promotion is a must.

All the best!

[Charlie_]

As an importer and product repairer it is good to deal with companies who have a machine they manufacture as they would then be able to back the product up. Having repaired a number of different machines we do understand the mechanism of the a press so I can comment that quality does matter and you do get what you pay for.

The cheap models are normally what you call bought of the shelf from china and are the pick of the day of what has been manufactured in high quantities. These machines are not produced for longevity, the workmanship is not consistent and sometimes the welds and electrics are not of good quality. Last year a local chap brought in one of the cheapest of cheap mug press bought on eBay to see if it could be repaired. When we opened it up it did not have a thermostat and wiring quality not good deeming it not repairable. It was quite unbelievable that such an unsafe product could be sold.

Sticking to companies who are willing to help and back up their product is much better. I like machines that are for eg. when something needs repairing that particular part can be taken off and sent back. This makes the product easy to send anywhere and shipping costs for the customer and seller reasonable. I'll give you another example we repaired a companies press that was something like 10 years old, excellent quality and we managed to source the spares and my partner who is a wiz with things like this repaired no problem. The machine weighed a ton and must've cost the company a bomb to cart it to us and back.

Keep that in mind when buying, if Serigaf is in driving distance the price would be worth paying. Their machines look like good quality similarly the same as Aadkins, Geo Knightley and Europa. Find out about the warranty and how is works thats the main backup you need. When it comes to pressing for eg with sublimation Sawgrass website is the best not only for this but for growing your business in numerous ways. They have free webinars etc when you sign up and even if you don't use sublimation using their knowledge in general business promotion is a must.

All the best!

very informative ..........................

[Jimbo]

When I bought a flat bed heatpress I had to return it for a really bad fabrication fault. It was replaced and though it works ok, the temp is way off the digital readout according to a laser temp gun.
The general fabrication of this press is poor. Where the arm of some presses are connected to the platen by nuts and bolts, this one is held by 2 spots of weld.
Is this a cheap chinese press? No! it's a £1000 Britiish made press. While in general, price sometimes indicates quality, it's not always the case.
Looking at different suppliers websites, there is a mug press which looks to be the same, yet there are huge differences in the prices.

[Postcard]

As an importer and product repairer it is good to deal with companies who have a machine they manufacture as they would then be able to back the product up. Having repaired a number of different machines we do understand the mechanism of the a press so I can comment that quality does matter and you do get what you pay for. ..........All the best!

Valuable perspective. Thanks for taking the time to post.

[WorthDoingRight]

Well, I am going to buck the trend here and say that I would buy a number of cheaper mug presses to get the first 1000 mug order out. Then with the profits buy 1 or 2 better mug presses. I bought a cheap chinese mug press for £80, can buy replacement blankets for it for £15 (when needed) and I am very happy with the quality of the mugs it produces. If therefore you were going to spend £720 on 2 mug presses you could buy 9 cheap presses and complete your order 4.5 times faster. Also if you buy 2 and 1 breaks down you lose 50% of your production capacity. If you have 9 presses and lose 1 then you lose just 11% of production capacity.

[Andrew]

Postcard - Have you ever printed with dyesub before? Not sure if I am right but it seems this is going to be all new to you. If so and you mention second to none prints is what you are aiming for then it's going to be a big learning curve. There is far more to it than just getting the best press you can buy and it will be a long learning curve. Do you really want this learning curve to be on a very important run where quality is crucial? I would be wary of proceeding straight onto the main runs if you haven't had past experience.

Printer and profiles, mug choice, ink, paper and press timings/pressure will all come into it when producing a top quality print. Problem solving can take some time to get it all going in the right direction. Personally, I would outsource the big runs and learn the basics in the background with no pressure. Once your confidence builds then you can move production in-house. The amount of faulty prints you could get on a large run would probably end up costing more than outsourcing. When I started out I wouldn't fancy having the pressure of getting a 1000 order spot on.

[Postcard]

Postcard - Have you ever printed with dyesub before? Not sure if I am right but it seems this is going to be all new to you. If so and you mention second to none prints is what you are aiming for then it's going to be a big learning curve. There is far more to it than just getting the best press you can buy and it will be a long learning curve. Do you really want this learning curve to be on a very important run where quality is crucial? I would be wary of proceeding straight onto the main runs if you haven't had past experience.

Printer and profiles, mug choice, ink, paper and press timings/pressure will all come into it when producing a top quality print. Problem solving can take some time to get it all going in the right direction. Personally, I would outsource the big runs and learn the basics in the background with no pressure. Once your confidence builds then you can move production in-house. The amount of faulty prints you could get on a large run would probably end up costing more than outsourcing. When I started out I wouldn't fancy having the pressure of getting a 1000 order spot on.

Andrew I value that observation, thank you for that. My experience is wide format giclee and other substrates and wet process photo repro, not dye-sub. We are taking a lot of advice, thats why we went down to Dublin for a demo. The problem with the large order is there just isn't the margins. The plus is delivery isn't for a few months so we are investing now and training up on short runs locally first. Fingers crossed we will have our eye in by the time we need to produce the larger orders. I certainly defer to the fact that it is a learned skill and by no means plug and play. We have also budgeted for wastage. We are nervous, but hopefully by allowing ourselves time to train up and by asking the right questions of the right people we will a) invest in the most appropriate kit for the job and b) be equipped to make a decent fist of things..

[Andrew]

If it's price sensitive then the first thing I would advise is to go large format straight away. Get a second hand 9600 or newer. Sourcing the right mug will be as crucial as getting the right press. If you have strong colours and want to go full top to bottom then it's hard work to find a mug that makes it possible. You are going the right way in not buying a cheap press but price won't always guarantee you can hit the ground running either. I would go by what is tried and tested by other members myself to play it safe.

You obviously know a fair bit about printing so hopefully this will be a stepping stone rather than a giant leap.

Good luck.

Andrew

[Postcard]

If it's price sensitive then the first thing I would advise is to go large format straight away. Get a second hand 9600 or newer. Sourcing the right mug will be as crucial as getting the right press. If you have strong colours and want to go full top to bottom then it's hard work to find a mug that makes it possible. You are going the right way in not buying a cheap press but price won't always guarantee you can hit the ground running either. I would go by what is tried and tested by other members myself to play it safe.

You obviously know a fair bit about printing so hopefully this will be a stepping stone rather than a giant leap.

Good luck.

Andrew

Kind of you to be so positive Andrew, and helpful -thanks. Just quickly though, large format 9600, do you mean the Epson printer, for mugs?

[Andrew]

Yes, Epson 9000 series is the wide format option which makes the ink 1/4 of the price. There are other printer make options but I know little about them. If you go smaller than that or the Ricoh route then it will cost you a lot more in ink. Ricoh is probably the easiest to get going on but I would think you know enough about printers....... well certainly more than I did when we started. This does depend on how many mugs you think you will do per year and how often the printer will run as well. We've got 2 that print constantly but having 1 that turns on now and then might gave you a little more fun in keeping it ticking along nicely.

[Earl Smith]

http://www.schulzeshop.com/main.php?SID=21cb82c103edcbf6618e5c69c8ecde21&gid=3186&action=articles

Just seen this thread so I thought Id post a link to Walter Schultz the manufacturers. ( hope your Germans up to scratch). They are at all the shows over here , very helpful and they build quality products.