recommendations

[Greensleeves]

As this is first post here i would like to ask what would everone here recommend for a newbe who wants to print baseball caps tshirts plates and mugs. I havent a clue what i am looking for but can anyone here enlighten me. I also need a printer.
I did see this on Ebay on the classified section and wondered what you all think of it, http://www.sublimagic.co.uk/epages/es12 ... combomagic (http://www.sublimagic.co.uk/epages/es120902.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es120902_shop/Products/smallcombomagic)

[Kaz]

I've actually got one of those :D

The heat press for doing tshirts etc is very small, about A5 size :(

I've only used the mug press attachment so far, not got as far as the caps/plates etc, and the mug press has given great results

But so far so good, says she with fingers crossed :lol:

Be warned though, it took exactly 28 days from ordering to receiving it, then he had a load on ebay for £285, which sold out very quickly.

[Greensleeves]

Hi Kaz
i did not expect such a quick responce from enyone here. what kind of printer do you use and which brand of ink do you use?

[Paul]

here is descent size of all in one

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Multifunctional-h ... 4839861897 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Multifunctional-heat-Press-Machine-CE-test-6-in-1-30-38_W0QQitemZ310202734743QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defa ultDomain_3?hash=item4839861897)

[Kaz]

I've got a ricoh gx7000 and I use sublijet R inks with it for doing dye-sub.

I'm still relatively new to all this, but it does what I need it to do, so I'm happy with it

[Greensleeves]

Thanks paul for that but somehow i dont have any confidence in chinese products. You get what you pay for and at that price i dont expect much from it.

I have read abit about the printer you ar using Kaz and epson seems to have the upper hand for quailty of print for the moment but heh what do i know. Its all swings and roundabouts. Was your printer dear and how much are thwe reloads for the inks?
Thanks everyone.

[Paul]

Thanks paul for that but somehow i dont have any confidence in chinese products. You get what you pay for and at that price i dont expect much from it.

right... so what do you think about that one from your link? where is that one coming from? ;) all from this same country mate ;)
this days everything os "made in china" :P

[Kaz]

Paul's right Patrick, the one from your link comes from China aswell ;)

Not reawlly used the printer that much, to be honest, trying to get my head round coreldraw etc just now.

But what I've printed out so far, the quality has been excellent :D

[Greensleeves]

Long way to china if something goes wong. :lol:

[Greensleeves]

Hi Kaz mabey thats why it took 28 days for the machine to get to you if it is from china. :D

[Greensleeves]

There must be a grafix programme out there that even a dummy could use. set it up at the start of the day and let someone who is not computer literate use it in a few easy steps?

[Kaz]

Ya cheeky bugger :lol:

Corel is easy-ish to use, it's just trying to get it to do what I want it to do that's the problem.

I'm getting there, slowly but surely.

No rush anyways, not got a lot of big orders, yet ;)

[accdave]

If you can afford it I would buy separate presses. The problem with all-in-ones is that if it goes you're knackered on all fronts.

[Kaz]

I agree with Dave, I've also bought a 38x38 flat bed press

[Paul]

If you can afford it I would buy separate presses. The problem with all-in-ones is that if it goes you're knackered on all fronts.
true... but then you can go and buy another one then ;) there is very easy chose... buy here for about £1000 for a press or buy from china for £300.

[Greensleeves]

I have been talking to my buisness partner and we have decided to use 2 seperate units. One to do mugs and one for plates. i cant seem to find a unit that is dedicated to plates on ebay, can anyone help please. :D

[Kaz]

I don't think I've seen a press for plates only in all my searching of late when getting started

[Greensleeves]

aah bugger it. i dident want to go down the road of a multi machine.

[Paul]

:twisted:

http://www.tj-print.com/img/tj_hpm_08.jpg

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Plate-Press_W0QQitemZ120537733457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_3?hash=item1c109bd951

[bms]

Plate presses in their own right never seemed to be popular. We used to sell these but they only do one thing - plates and plates haven't been particularly popular. A couple of things to bear in mind when doing plates - 1. you would only use these for display purposes, 2. getting a plate with a perfectly flat middle for sublimation printing is very difficult. I'd now recommend you use a water decal for plates (print with a laser printer, cut the circle out with a cutter and water slide this on to the plate and let dry). You end up with a much crisper image.

If you're looking for all in one machines, we have an 8 in 1 option which has plate, cap, mugs, flat bed etc (which is in stock in the UK and comes with full UK support). We even have spare parts in an unopened box should they be required.
http://www.printerowners.co.uk/presses-and-cutters/513/8-in-1-combination-heat-press.htm
You could even get a seperate mug press if you wanted as some folk on here have our entry level DF1 mug press.

If you don't want a multi-function machine then go for a heat press which is okay for your needs. You probably need to think about what size printer you want:

A4 versions are Epson B40W, Ricoh GXe3300, Ricoh GX5050 or Ricoh GXe5550 - don't bother with the latter just yet as the cartridges that would be supplied would need replacing as soon as you've primed the printer as they are the low capacity versions. High capacity cartridges for the GXe5550 are not yet available.

A3 versions are the Epson B1100, Photo 1400 or the Ricoh GX7000. The Epson versions will take A4, A3 and A3+; the Ricoh just A4 and A3.

If you want to print A3 or A3+ (this being paper size 13" x 19") then you might need a flat bed press that will print this size sheet. You'll pay a bit of a premium for a larger size press so you'll need to think about the amount of work you'll get that needs the largest size heat press.

[Kaz]

Nice one Paul :)

[Greensleeves]

I dont know why but i am getting cold feet about this buisness regards cost over profit. The lack of plate suppliers also limits the business. Here in Ireland mugs are making 10 euros each finished, but you must carry a good deal of stock not to run out during a busy season. The plate suppliers issue, worries me as i did not want to get into stocking tshirts as a result of making up for lost revenue. i do not want to run this as a hobby,

[Paul]

you can import plates from china. after paying a import tax you can still get them for cheaper...
check them out here:
http://www.bestsublimation.co.uk/index. ... lates.html (http://www.bestsublimation.co.uk/index.php/products/category/5-sublimation-plates.html)

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Sublima ... Plate.html (http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Sublimation_Ceramic_Plate.html)

[jennywren]

I trade 6 days aweek and can say hand on heart not having a plate press will make no difference to your profit only to your loss as I am only asked one or twice a year if I print on these, but what I do is use a decal paper that I use on candles and use that on a plate then I use the floor cleaning klear which puts a clear layer on the image. A model decal does the same but you still need the klear to seal it, this way you don't need to stock plates or buy the press. All you need is the decal, image normal printer ect. I use this on quite a few one ofs. Hope you can undrstand this, if not pm and I'll do stage by stage. :|

[bms]

you can import plates from china. after paying a import tax you can still get them for cheaper...
check them out here:
Check out that main picture of the plate - see the blue turning to a purple haze on the outside of the image? That's because the plate is not perfectly flat. The plate will be higher in the centre and then fall away (if you poured gravy on the plate it would go to the edges). That means your plate press will touch the centre of the plate and have problems touching the outer part - the resulting image will appear faded at the edges. Exactly like it looks on their website!

Water decal paper with the stuff jennywren suggests would be a far better approach - results much more guaranteed.

[accdave]

I trade 6 days aweek and can say hand on heart not having a plate press will make no difference to your profit only to your loss as I am only asked one or twice a year if I print on these, but what I do is use a decal paper that I use on candles and use that on a plate then I use the floor cleaning klear which puts a clear layer on the image. A model decal does the same but you still need the klear to seal it, this way you don't need to stock plates or buy the press. All you need is the decal, image normal printer ect. I use this on quite a few one ofs. Hope you can undrstand this, if not pm and I'll do stage by stage. :|


I trade 6 days a week too, in 15 months of trading I've been asked for a plate once. I assume they are not a great seller or people only go and look for people advertising them. Considering the various things we do get asked for I would have expected to be asked a lot more.

[Paul]

r u dispaly the sample plate in your shop? iam bit suprised as i sold quite few of them in short period of time...

[Greensleeves]

I have to say thankyou to all who responded to my questions. i have not lost heart in this buisness only i know i can sell alot of plates by marketing them right. I am persuing a job lot of equiptment at the moment and will let you all know how i get on. :D

[jennywren]

r u dispaly the sample plate in your shop? iam bit suprised as i sold quite few of them in short period of time...
I do and and it just gathers dust, at the moment I find people have less money to spend there is less footfall and the traffic to the website has slowed down, But I find this is everywhere in most retail sectors we have been there before and we just have to keep going on

[Greensleeves]

Got contact in the trade here in Ireland and €1500 setup with printer with inks 100 mugs and 100 8"plates mug press and plate press plus paper and what ever alse i will need. What do you all think?

[Kaz]

What printer are you getting?

[Paul]

... and what press, mugs and paper...???

[Greensleeves]

dont know either until i arrive at his warehouse. all i know is that everything is new and the ink cartridges will have to be filled with a syrings. He pointed that there was problems with the other system of using inks fed into the printer with tubes with air getting into the tubes. Thats all i know for now. :D

[jennywren]

I hope when you get what you want and its all that you wish for, I remember the thrill of getting started and learning and I'm like that with all new things that I do. So here wishing you well in your new venture :D

[Greensleeves]

Well im just the same as you. Remember starting a new year in school when i was alot younger. New school bag full of books and sharp pencils in your new pencil case. The whole year was going to be great. You had it all ahead of you. A whole yar of optismisism. Spoiled it all by not learning to spell correctly. lol :lol:

[accdave]

dont know either until i arrive at his warehouse. all i know is that everything is new and the ink cartridges will have to be filled with a syrings. He pointed that there was problems with the other system of using inks fed into the printer with tubes with air getting into the tubes. Thats all i know for now. :D


Is the equipment used or new ? If new do the company have a website. Maybe I'm being cynical but the explanation about the ink doesn't sound like they are an official distributor of sublimation ink. I'm sure Martin can confirm but I would have thought all official distributors would offer the easy flow system as well as cartridges. ?

[bms]

I'm sure Martin can confirm but I would have thought all official distributors would offer the easy flow system as well as cartridges. ?

Cartridges aren't available anymore for new Epson printers because of the costs. All new Epson printers from official distributors would be available with fully primed Easyflow ink systems, not refillable cartridges. If you get refillable cartridges then make sure you get the proper ink and the ICC colour correction profile to go with the ink. We have had SO many support calls from people who bought printers from companies selling sublimation equipment which weren't supported and they had to buy the correct printer and ink system again.

I'm more than happy to cast my eye over the set up you're being offered if you want to pm me or if you're happy to then post it up here. We all can offer advice as to whether €1500 is a good price or not, but there is a HUGE variation in cost of printers, presses etc.

[frizbee]

After many years of sublimation printing and many 100'000s of mugs later, the better quality equipment you buy the longer it lasts.

Ink is really the most important part of the whole process, however good your press, product or printer, without the right ink you will never be able to get a long lasting high quality result.

We use 6 Colour artanium on an Espon R265 printer & Sublijet 8 Colour on an epson 4880 printer and obtain excellent results, most of of trade customers arrive at our door as they have seen the quality of our mugs in other outlets and can't compete as when they set up they cut corners and bought either cheap presses, ink or products.

There are many companies who offer "dishwasher" proof products, I know of only 2 that actually do that pass the tests. The others some who claim to be the biggest, one who is the biggest certainly are not.

If its cheap, its probably not good, we've tried most of the presses available on ebay and none have lasted past a couple of 1000 mugs. We have a DF mug press (like BMS sell) that has done probably 10,000 mugs & many adkins studio presses the least used one has done over 15,000 the most used has done over 30,000 and still works, our wraps last from 1000 - 5000 mugs depeneding on how tight you use them, but of course BMS & Adkins are uk based stockists so parts arrive the next day and are good value.

We have never yet managed to sell a plate, they might be popular with a few in seaside towns, but they certainly arn't a make or break business item. Mugs & Coasters together in a acetate box will sell just as well. Buy slow float on transfer material for the plate and it will save a fortune in equipment costs.

Many times we have looked at importing items and have done several times, in the long run we have found it easier to stick to UK sourced products, we buy mugs by the Pallet (1800 mugs) importing them would mean to save any real money we would need to bring in so many its best to leave the supply chain to someone else, saving pennies is not always worth the trouble.

I can highly reccomend Martin @ BMS they always seem to have what we want in stock and get it to us the next day, their website is worth a visit as it stocks most things. His mugs are dishwasher proof and our standard mug and we use a lot of them 1,000s & 1,000s in fact I think we have had over 5,000 this year already.

For the slide on transfers, if BMS don't stock them, the magic touch do.

Ink & Ink systems BMS or purple monkey sublimation are a good bet.

Please don't buy fake ink & don't use cartridges, it must be an easy flow system. We don't want to see you back on here with a story about how its all going wrong. Sawgrass will confirm if you call them if a supplier is selling legit ink and other make of ink for desktop printers is not licensed.

Have fun and ask for any help you need.

[AJLA]

Could I ask frizbee as you have the two printers usig Artanium and sublijet do you have a preference? if you printed the same mug with each ink is there one more vibrant than the other?
Are the blacks the same?
Mandy

[Andrew]

Welcome to the forum Frizbee......... or is that Martin joining under a different name ;)

[bms]

or is that Martin joining under a different name
lol :lol: Excellent post though (no it's wasn't me or prompted by me) :lol:

[frizbee]

Hmmm never been called Martin before, no sure my mum would approve.

Difference between artanium and sublijet.

Pro's and Cons of Ink.

Pro's sublijet gives you really dark black, con's its more expensive and more limited who you can buy it from, for instance the ink for our 4880 is only availabel from Micro Partners or Novachrome, which helps keep the prices high.

Pro's of artanium, easily obtained, if buying with printer, but from BMS as a package, if buying seperately Purple Monkey sell the widest selection of different size botles, easy flow systems etc.

Of course sublijet is available for the new Ricoh, but I have had no experience of this printer yet, but would probably go that way whey we need the next one.

The most important bit is not to buy fake inks, I can't stress it enough as whatever anyone says they are not as good if it dosen't say sawgrass on the bottle, its no good. Sawgrass selll Rotech, Artanium & Sublijet anything else you see is imported. There are people on ebay saying this is sublijet, I buy in big bottles and rebottle to save you money. This is really unlikely as there woudl be litle money in it and if someone can find me sublijet by the litre I haev the money waiting.

And no I am nothing to do with Martin & BMS, but he is our supplier of mugs, we have tried the rest - Magic Touch, Xpres, NovaChrome and we have settled on his mugs as the best for us, we are a trade printer, our normal order size is about 288 mugs of a design so we need consistency of shape, size & Quality.

David

[Andrew]

I think the print quality has a lot to do with the profile you use or how far it has been developed for certain printers. We used to have Sublijet in the early days and had 1290's running. The blacks were greenish on this setup with Powerdriver. We next had 1800's again sublijet/powerdriver and the colours were perfect. We even downgraded the Powerdriver on to the Lite version to increase speed but the ease of use of that software and the results we were getting we are hard pushed to achieve now. The A4 version of this printer (800) never had the software developed as far as the 1800 set-up by Sawgrass and couldn't get the same results. Sawgrass seem to throw more weight behind certain printers and get a better software option.

I no longer use Sawgrass ink due to costs but to do this then you need to spend a lot more on software. This is where Sawgrass justify their high prices as they give the support and software largely for free which allows for a wide variety of people to get in the sublimation game. I obviously can't agree with David that any ink beyond Sawgrass is no good but do agree that importing any cheap unkown stuff from China is the wrong option.

[Greensleeves]

here is a link to the distributer i am thinking of buying from, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... AQ:GB:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150422945071&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123)

and here is his mugs
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOX-OF-36-SUBLIMA ... 2305f21211 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOX-OF-36-SUBLIMATION-MUGS-FORSALE-NORTHERN-IRELAND_W0QQitemZ150423605777QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH _DefaultDomain_3?hash=item2305f21211)

[Paul]

dont buy it :)

there is what he recon:
Epson 6 colour printer with refillable cartridges much more reliable than the bulk feeding systems, .

BO*******X! ;)

[frizbee]

For that ebay seller to say

"AS IVE SAID BEFORE THESE MUGS ARE THE BEST IVE EVER PRESSED AND ARE AS DISHWASHER SAFE AS A SUBLIMATION MUG CAN BE. MANY SELLERS WILL SAY DISHWASHER SAFE IM NOT GOING TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT AS HEAT APPLIES THE IMAGE AND THE ACIDS AND DETERGENTS IN MODERN DISHWASHER WILL "WEAKEN" THE IMAGE QUALTITY, IT PRETTY MUCH DEPENDS ON THE DISHWASHER. HOWEVER THESE ARE PROBABLY THE BEST SUBLIMATION MUG YOU WILL GET IN THE UK."

He obviously has never had a RN or Rhino coated mug, we dishwash our mugs everyday and they are as dark as the day they were printed.

Cheap mugs are cheap mugs, like all things sublimation there are good and bad, licensed and unlicensed. At the recent Printware & Promotion show we look at the mimaki large format sublimation printer, we grabbed some transfers to test from the rep, whist the process was easy and the speed was high, the blacks were poor.

Many comment about sawgrass, but no one has ever shown me a pantone correct process black printed mug using anything apart from sublijet, if they could I would pay for the info, I spend in excess of £1200 each time we swap our carts on the 4880, if we could do this with bulk ink we would be converted as it woudl save a fortune, but we need real support as we print in runs of 1000's of mugs and all have to be the same colour.,

[bms]

MANY SELLERS WILL SAY DISHWASHER SAFE IM NOT GOING TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT AS HEAT APPLIES THE IMAGE AND THE ACIDS AND DETERGENTS IN MODERN DISHWASHER WILL "WEAKEN" THE IMAGE QUALTITY, IT PRETTY MUCH DEPENDS ON THE DISHWASHER

If the supplier can't give assurances that the mugs are dishwasher safe then assume they aren't and when customers wash them in the dishwasher you should expect the image to fade. If you're going to use these mugs then assume they are not dishwasher safe. The RN coated mugs we supply are totally dishwasher safe/ proof (or whatever else you want to call it). We tested them for well over 3 months washing daily in a domestic dishwasher with the powerful Finish PowerBall tablet - nothing happened to the image.

[JSR]

dont buy it :)

there is what he recon:
Epson 6 colour printer with refillable cartridges much more reliable than the bulk feeding systems, .

BO*******X! ;)
Oddly, the second picture in that auction includes a box that says "continuous ink". Sounds like he might be keeping the Artanium-filled CISS for himself (he clearly has one, judging by the box) and flogging a non-brand ink & cartridge system in the auction.

On the subject of dishwasher-safe mugs, I have an information page on my site at http://www.mugsandgifts.co.uk/dishwashing-mugs from when I did some tests on different types of coated mugs a while ago. It certainly opened my eyes to only buying RN-coated mugs whenever possible.

[Greensleeves]

Well Hi guys and galls im back. I am glad now i did not go for the easyflow system. Problems kept occuring when it was being transported in the back of a van. Air lock was the big one. I am using cs4 and was wonderg in if i can place 3 different mug templates on print preview using the epson r265 printer? :D

[Kaz]

If you can fit 3 different templates to the one page, I dont see why not

[Greensleeves]

I figured out how to divide the page into 9 mm spaces for printing 3 mug templates and drop everthing into place afterwards. Apart from rubbing the lines out before i go to print on cs4 i dont have an alternative. Otherwise the back lines appear on top or bottom of the mug. Can anyone here help? :D

[frizbee]

You can use layout line in CS whcih don't get printed, if you can't work out how to do it, drop me a pm with the following.

The top and bottom unprintable parts of your page (size) to find this print in illustrator a graphic that goes of heh side of the page, measure the white space unprinted on the paper.

The size of the priantable area on your mug, usually about 180 x 85 but depends on people, presses, mugs etc you use layout to the full height of the mug, allowing you to position it correctly so it looks right. Don'f forget actual mug height.

I'll send you back a ai that has the lines there that will not be seen when printed.

When you are ready to use this template, you trim off the bottom, the cut the page into 3 exact amounts using a guiltine, then you have easy to put on trasfers as they are the same height as your mugs so easy to get straight.

IIf anyone else wants this done, let me know