New guy

[Box760]

Hi I've just got myself a heat press and know nothing at all about it I plan on printing t shirts hoodies etc I've been told dye sub is a far better way to print them then just heat transfer paper so guys I bet you get asked the same question all the time t shirts printers inks release paper where's best to buy and witch to buy just to get me started so I can find my feet.
Cheers Ian

[GoldRapt]

Hi and welcome

[Charlie_]

Hi I've just got myself a heat press and know nothing at all about it I plan on printing t shirts hoodies etc I've been told dye sub is a far better way to print them then just heat transfer paper so guys I bet you get asked the same question all the time t shirts printers inks release paper where's best to buy and witch to buy just to get me started so I can find my feet.
Cheers Ian

Hello Ian

I would recommend that the first place to look is the old threads as all of what you ask is covered in them...........

[Box760]

Thanks for the advice

[Heatpressuk]

Hello,

Sublimation ink transfer offers flexibility in the range of products you can transfer onto. You would need sublimation ink, paper and blanks. For tshirts I prefer Starworld sublimation tshirts you need to price hunt as some places offer good prices for bulk buying. BMS offer a great range of blanks but you can also look on eBay for people who've selling up and get a bargain. Sawgrass are the ink manufacturers and their are plenty companies who sell their ink and should all be priced the same. However if you are not vat registered always worth looking for a company who is not as they could be priced cheaper if not just ask them. Remember when buying paper: I've been told from some buyers that the cheaper papers don't give a good quality resolution so bear that in mind as that is the most important part for transferring qualtiy images.

Downside of sublimation is you cannot print on 100% cotton however it doesn't stop you because you could run 2 printers to cater for both markets giving you a wider market. If you already have a dye or pigment ink printer that gives an excellent print then you could use that also for this type of transferring.

If you choose the sub market go to Sawgrasseurope.com to their eduction section has an array of information all for free. They don't just help you on your printing but also on marketing your business, ideas and more. Its a fantastic site just register to get to other areas and also webinars.

All the best!

[Box760]

Thanks very much mate I'll check out that site

[Craig]

Welcome to DSF, The search box is going to be your new best friend in the top right :smile:

[pisquee]

You would need sublimation ink ... Sawgrass are the ink manufacturers and their are plenty companies who sell their ink and should all be priced the same.

For reasons of clarity...
Sawgrass are a manufacturer of sublimation inks. They certainly aren't the only one. Many big ink and chemical companies produce their own inks. Along with some smaller producers. What Sawgrass have is a patent for one type of sublimation ink and process. They then use this patent to create a monopoly where they threaten legal action against other manufacturers who don't enter into a license agreement (kind of like a protection racket!) Along with this they make all their own dealers sell their inks at a set price.

Because of how heavy handed their internal legal dept are with threats of legal action, it is of too sensitive a nature to specifically give you alternative options here. But Google isn't restricted in this way, and the information is out there and open to be researched. You could start with a search for "are Sawgrass the ink police.

[Heatpressuk]

Mainly what I wanted to clarify is Sawgrass have the patent on the ink so it is not legal for a UK or countries that fall under their patent, suppliers, to sell non Sawgrass manufactured ink. You can of course as a singular person approach sources outside of UK for this ink but a reputable UK company would comply with patent laws (however unfortunate or unfair it may seem).

[GoldRapt]

That doesn't read right, there are manufacturers of Dye Sub Ink out there that sell their ink, they just need a licence to do so from Sawgrass as they hold the patent for the process.

[Heatpressuk]

thats right "process" but still one cannot sell non licensed ink bottom line!

[pisquee]

The companies that have bought the license may think that the patent Sawgrass have is worthless, but see that paying the license fee to Sawgrass a better option as it is cheaper, easier and quicker than going through a huge legal battle.

Also, think what would happen to the market of inks, if a manufacturer actually did go through a court battle (and didn't settle early!) and went on to show that Sawgrass' patent was fairly meaningless. This would mean the current semi-monopoly and price fixing would disappear, and anyone could free and easily sell sublimation inks without any worries, there would suddenly be so much competition that the bottom would fall out of the market, prices would plummet of ink, and the bigger ink companies would then make less profit and have less motivation to produce these inks. So, we potentially could have much cheaper inks, although quality may be iffy, but the producers would make less profit. It is in all the ink companies interests to keep the Sawgrass patent "myth" going for as long as possible.

[GoldRapt]

I understand and agree, I wonder what would happen if someone out there made a new dye sub ink by a different process and patented it.

[pisquee]

That's the point - they have!
Sawgrass' patent is for a formulation of ink which is protected when used in a printer which uses heat in the print head - i.e. so the ink only actually sublimates when in the heat press, and not in the printer.
Maybe Sawgrass found this too tricky to achieve in real life, and so seem to have abandoned the idea of using inks in those type of printers, and now stick to putting their inks into Epsons which don't use heat in the print head. I would bet that the other sublimation inks available (i.e., not from Sawgrass) don't have this "enforcing agent" in their formulation and so are different and outside of the scope of the Sawgrass patent.
For more information on this, try googling TOG vs Sawgrass as this was basically the ruling of the court in that case, but TOG settled out of court before the judge made his final ruling, but the court documents show that TOG would have won.

[bms]

For more information on this, try googling TOG vs Sawgrass as this was basically the ruling of the court in that case, but TOG settled out of court before the judge made his final ruling, but the court documents show that TOG would have won.

Given none of us can give an expert opinion on the papers it might be a little step too far to draw the conclusion that TOG settled out of court because they would have won. At least one of the top people at TOG then went on to work for Sawgrass as their enforcer of the patent within Europe on the basis that if their company (TOG) couldn't beat Sawgrass with the millions of dollars backing they had then there isn't much point in smaller companies trying to do that same. Whilst I might be paraphrasing the conversation I had a few years ago it went something along those lines.

If you feel strongly about it then pull your vast resources together and challenge the legal standpoint. If you're convinced TOG would have won then you've nothing to loose...