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bms
18-12-2012, 10:45 PM
2013 may be the year of exciting new developments in 3D printing and I've today had a really interesting meeting with a UK company developing 3D vacuum printing machines for sublimation (with over 10 years of experience already in the market). The range of printables explodes - imagine not being restricted to printing in a mug press or a flat bed press or any other type of press. One press, all products.

Imagine printing a cat/ dog bowl but full internal printing at the same time as external printing (no white spaces!).

Imagine printing a mug including the handle, imagine printing money boxes - the top in full colour and all down the side in full colour with no white spaces. Image plates, imagine...well anything! Anything that can be moulded can be printed - the shape, contours etc don't matter as the special film used for holding the sublimation inks forms over the shape of the product as it is heated and moulds into the shape. Inks transfer and the carrier film is removed. End result = full colour, customised coverage of any shaped sublimation blank.

It may well be that in time we look back at "flat bed' presses with a wry smile at what 2D printing used to restricted us to....

Roll on 2013...

JMugs
18-12-2012, 10:53 PM
Looked at the existing market place machines, and thought nice idea, almost there, but not quite. I saw drawbacks, of which you will be more aware than I. So I wait with excitement.

bms
18-12-2012, 11:09 PM
Looked at the existing market place machines, and thought nice idea, almost there, but not quite. I saw drawbacks, of which you will be more aware than I. So I wait with excitement.

There are different designs coming to the market. We will have a 3D vacuum machine in a couple of weeks for testing, but the routes to getting things printed vary. Some simply suck out air and get hot, others are computer controlled for different products and soften the film with heat, cause a vacuum and let the product to be printed enter the softened film which encapsulates the product. The larger the product to be encapsulated the larger the machine and the greater the cost obviously. Some use paper and others use film - film will probably be the way to go as it will mould to the substrate whereas paper will require cutting to avoid crease marks (but paper will be cheaper).

mrs maggot
18-12-2012, 11:21 PM
my neice works in london and uses one of the biggest 3d printers and vacuum machines around, she makes models for a lot of film companies, and adverts - i know its a different kind of printer/set up, but the technology thats about now is just truly mindblowing

Mossy88
19-12-2012, 12:05 AM
Ive been looking into 3D printing as there are some on the market now, very interested in one for 3d printing of phone cases which uses a film.

Youtube has a few videos of this.

Renniwano
19-12-2012, 01:13 PM
It would be a fantastic piece of tech to have.. I have seen quite a few that require separate jigs for products.. which then could become costly.. I can't wait to see what you have in store..

ASLCreative
19-12-2012, 01:27 PM
The technology used seems as it is not much different to vacuum forming. It will be interesting to see how they perform with different products.

pisquee
20-12-2012, 12:55 PM
the drawback I can see is the time it takes - on our biggest press (which is a bit bigger than A2 per bed) I can press a lot of iPhone aluminiums in one go. From what I've seen of the vaccuum presses, you need some kind of jig to hold the iPhone cases in position, and then can only do so many, and it seems to take a bit longer for the process than in a flat bed heat press. Whilst I agree the end finished result does seem a lot better, I am yet to be convinced it is the way to go for us. Does anyone have a price on the rolls of the film that need to be printed, and do they take standard sublimation inks, or do you need a different formulation to print on a film as opposed to papers?)

Being able to print more interesting shaped mugs (not just flat sided) mind, that holds a lot of appeal for us, especially as potentially the common problems with mug pressing will be done away with - all around printing right up to the handle, no issues (?) with inconsistent heat/pressure. Also, being able to print the glass tumblers without them breaking, and seamlessly all the way around - now that would be great. We'd definitely be interested in one for mug pressing

pisquee
20-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Ooh, just seen that BestSub have a vacuum press for doing 12 mugs at a time - now I'm interested! (http://www.bestsublimation.cn/heat-press-machines/19-3d-heat-press/detail/1021-szm3d.html?tmpl=component)

Ian M
20-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Does anyone have a price on the rolls of the film that need to be printed, and do they take standard sublimation inks

From what I have been reading 100 sheets of A4 film costs £200+VAT & you will need different inks too. The ink I've seen advertised is called Visi-Sub 3D ink & I think we all know the price will be a premium one. As for the jigs I have seen them priced up at £196+VAT each & these jigs are just for the phone cases. I don't think any of this is going to be cheap.

socialgiraffe
20-12-2012, 03:31 PM
Hi IanM

Are you sure its A4. Only reason i say this is because film I saw from Octi-tech was £200 for 100 A5 Sheets. A quick calculation meant that one single iphone cover will cost £5.45 plus VAT to Print which IMHO is way over the mark

Ian M
20-12-2012, 08:21 PM
Simon, have a look for yourself here http://sublideck.com/sublimation-3dfilm.html

Justin
20-12-2012, 08:25 PM
I'm looking a buying a set-up asap as I have a customer with work waiting. I hear Transfer Press are bringing in a new machine early next year but don't have details as yet.

bms
20-12-2012, 09:00 PM
From what I have been reading 100 sheets of A4 film costs £200+VAT & you will need different inks too. The ink I've seen advertised is called Visi-Sub 3D ink & I think we all know the price will be a premium one. As for the jigs I have seen them priced up at £196+VAT each & these jigs are just for the phone cases. I don't think any of this is going to be cheap.

Figures I have is that an A4 sheet will 10's of pence (certainly way below a £1 per A4 sheet) and standard sublimation ink will work. In fact our Ricoh SG3110 using standard SubliJetR inks is going out to test on A4 film for 3D printing. Jigs are more expensive, but I'm projecting them to be 1/4 of the price you quote Ian (possibly cheaper).

bms
20-12-2012, 09:10 PM
Simon, have a look for yourself here http://sublideck.com/sublimation-3dfilm.html

I wonder is this is a marketing ploy to differentiate VisiSub3D from SubliJetIQ. Stand to be corrected here but the write up of the inks, quick connect bag system has all the trade marks of SubliJetIQ inks. Knowing the company and the history of the owner, there may be a subtle difference somewhere to differentiate the market, but these are Sawgrass inks at the end of the day and Sawgrass haven't (yet) launched a specific 3D ink generally to the market. Pricing of the inks are also the same as the SubliJetIQ inks for the Epson WP4015...

Ian M
20-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Martin, at the moment we can only go on the prices we can see until we know more. It is a question of you have thrown all the balls up into the air & we are now just waiting for them to land.

socialgiraffe
21-12-2012, 12:57 AM
I see it now IANM

You read the measurements and I read the bit afterwards, text is copied and pasted below... :smile:

297 x 210 mm (A5)


Am really interested in the mug 3d but it all depends on cost and time factors. As I work in bulk my customers will not pay the price if it takes half an hour to wrap 12 mugs. Suppose its a waiting game for now.

pisquee
21-12-2012, 12:50 PM
Is the vacuum process 1/2 an hour per 'pressing' (or maybe I should say sucking?!)

socialgiraffe
21-12-2012, 12:59 PM
Is the vacuum process 1/2 an hour per 'pressing' (or maybe I should say sucking?!)

Not sure Pisquee.

I was referring to how long it would take to wrap the mugs as I think it will be quite fiddly. The half hour bit was just a number I picked from the air.

pisquee
21-12-2012, 01:26 PM
I thought you didn't wrap them, but the machine pulls/sucks the sheet of film over them?

socialgiraffe
21-12-2012, 01:52 PM
I thought you didn't wrap them, but the machine pulls/sucks the sheet of film over them?

Correct with some things, but I am only looking at mugs. Someone posted a link earlier to this machine

http://www.bestsublimation.cn/heat-press-machines/19-3d-heat-press/detail/1021-szm3d.html?tmpl=component

Which looks like they have to be wrapped.

Only guessing on the above as suppliers have yet to release any real details

pisquee
22-12-2012, 12:30 PM
Yeah, I posted to that machine, but hadn't notice that the mugs were all in wraps - trying to work out how that works then. I was obviously dreaming of putting 12 mugs in, and having one big sheet of film that got sucked over them all in one go.

pisquee
22-12-2012, 12:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoJQ2S0BgEk

Paul
22-12-2012, 01:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoJQ2S0BgEk
it may be only me but how this got to do with an vacum or 3d printing??? this is onl fancy oven. and 280C for 1 glass??? :) i think someone on this video is misunderstanding meaning of 3d printing.

Renniwano
22-12-2012, 01:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoJQ2S0BgEk

I was wondering how much tape he wanted to use !!

Stitch Up
22-12-2012, 07:01 PM
Gotta be one of the most boring videos I've seen! I thought it was some sort of joke :wink:

bms
03-01-2013, 05:20 PM
I wonder is this is a marketing ploy to differentiate VisiSub3D from SubliJetIQ. Stand to be corrected here but the write up of the inks, quick connect bag system has all the trade marks of SubliJetIQ inks. Knowing the company and the history of the owner, there may be a subtle difference somewhere to differentiate the market, but these are Sawgrass inks at the end of the day and Sawgrass haven't (yet) launched a specific 3D ink generally to the market. Pricing of the inks are also the same as the SubliJetIQ inks for the Epson WP4015...

Just to update on progress here. I can confirm that the Ricoh SG3110 printer using standard SubliJetR inks has successfully printed onto gold backed 3D film and perfectly sublimated onto 3D iPad cases at temperatures of 135-140 degrees C. Confirming my original suspicions that VisiSub3D works in exactly the same way as SubliJet standard sublimation inks. This gold backed 3D film should be available at around 1/3 of the price of the link provided, pucks for iPhone cases at significantly lower prices. There are differences in the 3D vacuum machines and there will be the hobbyist machines available as well as the much more commercial end of the market depending on budgets.

pisquee
04-01-2013, 11:04 PM
Hi Martin,
Can you provide any clarity on how the vacuum presses work for mugs and similar items - does the film get pulled over them, or are they wrapped?

bms
04-01-2013, 11:25 PM
Hi Martin,
Can you provide any clarity on how the vacuum presses work for mugs and similar items - does the film get pulled over them, or are they wrapped?

Sorry Tim, but I've been asked to refrain from responding to threads that directly advertise/detail future products and with that in mind, it may not be appropriate for me to comment further.

Ian M
05-01-2013, 02:13 PM
Tim, you can watch a demonstration of the machine at this link which will give you a good idea of how it works http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HygjixIOxoQ

I have to admit after watching the bit with the mugs it is just like using an halogen oven. Fair enough it looks good for doing the plates & shot glasses but, how often do most of us get asked for plates or shot glasses?

Stitch Up
05-01-2013, 02:30 PM
And the price is?

TBH I'm not sure whether I'm impressed or not!

Ian M
05-01-2013, 02:53 PM
And the price is?

TBH I'm not sure whether I'm impressed or not!

£750 John. There will be more professional versions at around the £8,000 mark. It all looks a bit of a faff to me. :wink:

Stitch Up
05-01-2013, 03:28 PM
The video shows sublimating:

Rock Slates - I can already do that
Mugs - I can do that too.
Glass - Can do that.

Ipad - Was he manually bending in the corners after sublimating?

The 3D items like phone covers and plates seems the only income producing items to me and £750, hmmmmmmm.

RogerC
05-01-2013, 03:47 PM
Not having done rock slates I might be off the mark here but having to cut the paper to the same shape as the sub surface before 'pressing' like he did in the video looks like a time waster to me. IMO it's something of a gimmick.....not worth splashing out £hundreds on.

Paul
05-01-2013, 05:22 PM
imo if you menage to get few funky shaped silicon covers for your items you will be able to do that in halogen oven.
In all this "3D" is only marketing move as there is nothing to do with 3d really.... I also noticed that every time he switch vacum ON he holds the corners of the machine! hmmm.... does not look too good.
I agree this is great solution for plates but not worth the money imo.
Benefit of this video is that gave me few ideas :cool:
so watch my youtube channel soon lol :)

Ian M
05-01-2013, 09:06 PM
The video shows sublimating:

Rock Slates - I can already do that
Mugs - I can do that too.
Glass - Can do that.

Ipad - Was he manually bending in the corners after sublimating?

The 3D items like phone covers and plates seems the only income producing items to me and £750, hmmmmmmm.

John, yes he was manually bending the corners & thought they would have had a puck like they have for the iPhone cases.

The OP did say
Imagine printing a mug including the handle & there is no way you could do that with this machine from what I saw.

bms
05-01-2013, 09:10 PM
John, yes he was manually bending the corners & thought they would have had a puck like they have for the iPhone cases.

The OP did say & there is no way you could do that with this machine from what I saw.

You can print to the handle, you can print to anything that is sublimation coated. You just don't use paper as paper won't bend/ mould to 3D objects/

Renniwano
05-01-2013, 09:28 PM
I do like the full wrap phone cases..

bigj2552
05-01-2013, 09:53 PM
kinda with IAN on this one - the mugs i see no difference from subbed ones - i can get a full top to bottom just now on an 11oz with NO fading.

plates, i say there not even worth buying in. plates are for the grannys, and granny dont usually shop for sublimation stuff.

the phone covers i like but - the ones i see others selling them for, the price hike from ordinary subbed ones is a tad steep - Ordinary subbed case from £4.99 - £9.99 - 3d case from £14.99 - £19.99+.

as for the other things, yeh there nice but - there is still a recession on and folk are still wanting things - CHEAP.
To buy one of these machines means firing up prices to accommodate - or i,m i missing the boat here ? :confused:

Red5
05-01-2013, 11:08 PM
some more info here http://www.szmicrotec.com/product/index.aspx?id=69&ti=3D%20Sublimation%20Machine&tone=Heat%20Press%20Machines#.UOii5YmLIeZ
and here http://sublideck.com/sublimation-blanks.html

bigj2552
06-01-2013, 01:42 PM
some more info here http://www.szmicrotec.com/product/index.aspx?id=69&ti=3D%20Sublimation%20Machine&tone=Heat%20Press%20Machines#.UOii5YmLIeZ
and here http://sublideck.com/sublimation-blanks.html

£196 ( £235 incl vat )just for one jig ? they having a laugh ? :rolleyes:
maybe others can see different side here but, yes the finish is great but the kit price and the retail price of the finished products kinda kills it ?

bms
06-01-2013, 02:36 PM
£196 ( £235 incl vat )just for one jig ? they having a laugh ? :rolleyes:

I think they are !

Jersue
06-01-2013, 04:11 PM
£2.00 a sheet plus VAT for the film as well??

cankut90
09-05-2013, 10:32 PM
My first iphone cover experience.I started to print Nba team logos

bms
10-05-2013, 10:58 PM
My first iphone cover experience.I started to print Nba team logos
I'll have to get talking to you - we're coming to Izmir in a couple of months. I believe you have that big yellow thing in the sky that's nice and warm (the Sun) :)

cankut90
12-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Yes of course,

I will help u just ask what u want :)

bigj2552
12-05-2013, 11:58 PM
Yes of course,

I will help u just ask what u want :)



think he's looking for discounts on some hotels there :cool: special sublimation ones - or where are the best bars with the best looking woman :tongue:

bms
13-05-2013, 09:55 PM
think he's looking for discounts on some hotels there :cool: special sublimation ones - or where are the best bars with the best looking woman :tongue:

:). I was thinking more of good drinking holes!

socialgiraffe
14-05-2013, 09:55 AM
Get your order in with BMS quick Cankut90 and it should come with free delivery :biggrin: