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View Full Version : Absolute beginner - lots of questions!



MugMonster
17-04-2010, 11:08 PM
Hi all, I'm David - just thought I'd say hello before an absolute barrage of questions! I'm completely starting from scratch over here - my aim is to set up a small, local design business (thought we'd start with mugs...) for my my wife to run. She's going to be leaving her 9-5 soon and want something we can run from home.

I guess the one thing we have going for us is that I'm pretty decent with photoshop, etc and have been making a nice little trickle of income from my Cafepress/Zazzle shops for a few years - so on the design front, we're sorted (he says, being over-confident).

But I want something I've got complete control over and as I mentioned before, I'm confident in my ability to churn out good-quality, imaginative designs, but getting from the printer to the mug seems like a minefield of information to get through... so here's a list of things I don't know and would love to find out... so if anyone can help and can excuse my newbie ignorance, it'd be great to hear from you....

1. I want to start at subsistence level, churning out mug designs. How much should I budget for startup kit? I have computers/software.

2. Best place to source mugs? I've made some enquiries to chinese manufacturers - as well as the UK. Where's best?

3. Ceramic? Earthenware? Stoneware? Porcelain? Duraglazed? I'd love to know the difference and which is best for dye-sub.

4. Printers. I've read good things about the new Ricoh's. Best to aim for them or one of those bulk system thingys?

5. Is there a standard for dye-sub paper? What is it? Best brands?

6. Dishwasher safe? I don't want my stuff to be fading after a few runs. What are the cost implications of ensuring this?

7. I've seen 2 basic designs of heat press. One vertical, one horizontal. I've seen prices range from £120 on ebay (new) to £400 on various stockists websites. Best brands? What are the operating lives of these things like?

Just those seven questions for now. Would appreciate any help you can offer and in the meantime I'll be trawling the forum to try and find out as much as I can, so when I read your answers - it won't seem like Greek.

Thanks in advance.

David

Justin
17-04-2010, 11:28 PM
[quote="MugMonster"]

1. I want to start at subsistence level, churning out mug designs. How much should I budget for startup kit? I have computers/software.
You'll need the mug press, mugs, printer, sublimation inks, paper, heat tape etc. A decent press will prob. be £150 upwards. Printer and Inks is the biggest outlay. You have to use Sawgrass patented inks in a small format printer so ideally go for Artainium. The inks will initially costs you £300+ to set up. Paper £10-£15 for 100 sheets.

2. Best place to source mugs? I've made some enquiries to chinese manufacturers - as well as the UK. Where's best?
I buy my mugs from BMS as I find them very straight and white. Used to buy Listawood but postage prices became too high. I've tested pretty much every UK mug and these 2 are (imo) the best 10oz mugs available. I don't like the heavier 11oz mugs.

3. Ceramic? Earthenware? Stoneware? Porcelain? Duraglazed? I'd love to know the difference and which is best for dye-sub.
Duraglaze/RN coated are the same thing, just different brand names for the dishwasher proof coating. If the mug doesn't have either of these it'll probably only be dishwasher 'safe' which means it may well fade after a while. Not done any porcelain yet myself, there are some nice mugs available but price wise it's a jump up.

4. Printers. I've read good things about the new Ricoh's. Best to aim for them or one of those bulk system thingys?
You can use a D88/D120 etc. for A4 work which is fine if you're just printing mugs. If you intend to print larger items later then an A3 printer is better suited, the Epson 1400 for example is a very good choice. There's the Rioch GX5050 (A4) and GX7000 (A3) I can only speak from personal experience and say that I wasn't impressed with the 5050 and returned to the 1400 recently. Many users swear by the Ricoh so keep an open mind.

5. Is there a standard for dye-sub paper? What is it? Best brands?
You can get cheap papers but I'd stay clear. Tru-Pix is probably the best, Xpres paper is excellent and quite a bit cheaper.

6. Dishwasher safe? I don't want my stuff to be fading after a few runs. What are the cost implications of ensuring this?
As mentioned above, look for RN/Duraglaze coating and you'll be fine. Cost wise there's not much in it.

7. I've seen 2 basic designs of heat press. One vertical, one horizontal. I've seen prices range from £120 on ebay (new) to £400 on various stockists websites. Best brands? What are the operating lives of these things like?
You'll find links to suppliers on the forum. Most users will advice to stay clear of Chinese presses unless you really know what you're looking for. You don't have to spend a fortune, I use the DF10 from BMS and get on very well. Xpres and George Knight do very good presses but you can always upgrade when you are up and running (great second hand sales value on subli equipment)
You may need to change heat blankets every now and then but you'll not be doing it that often and you're prob. looking around £35'ish each time.

It's a learning curve getting it right but when you do it's very satisfying and can be proftable as well :D

Other members will soon be along with their own opinions I'm sure ;)

Paul
18-04-2010, 01:30 AM
all I can say is... Justin said everything :) but I will not agree with 7. :)
most press is coming from china :) is all about quality control not manufactory place :)
ask martin where your press coming from ;)

Paul

ps. keep in mind what Justin said and you will go far... :P

Justin
18-04-2010, 01:34 AM
Appreciate most presses come from China, I just meant be careful. Buy from a reputable seller who will give you the all important support :-)

TransferGraeme
18-04-2010, 11:36 AM
I would add a couple of things to the very comprehensive replies you've already recieved.

With regard to presses - if you're producing runs of mugs of a design rather than one-offs a mug oven and wraps might be a good option - the advantage being that you can put 4 mugs in and do something else for 15 minutes rather than having to be around to take a mug in and out of the press every 3 minutes or so.

With regard to printers you should also consider the new A4 Ricoh the Gxe3300.

Finally, to blow my own trumpet for a moment I would offer our 10oz mugs which I believe bear comparison with any currently on the market - if anyone hasn't seen our mugs recently drop me a PM with a snailmail address and I'll get a sample in the post to you tomorrow!

Justin
18-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Good point about the mug ovens, something I'd forgotten. I used to run 2 ovens so that I could get 8 mugs done in the same time but to be honest if I was doing larger quantities again now I think I'd just run with 2 or 3 single head presses as I found getting clamps on and off a bit of a pain and also had to use an extra layer of paper to stop the image bleeding through.

Now if you invent something that applies the transfer to the mug that would be very useful ;)

GXe3300 looks to be a fine printer, smaller outlay when you need inks compared to the other Ricohs but won't last as long and will work out more expensive. The B1100 takes some beating, A3, quick printer at a great price. My only gripe would be it's not a 6 colour printer.

Graeme, are your mugs RN/Duraglaze coated?

TransferGraeme
18-04-2010, 12:35 PM
Yes our mugs have the "Rhino" coating.

accdave
18-04-2010, 12:44 PM
It depends what I need at the time but I only use Martin or Greame for mugs. No problem with either.

Paul
18-04-2010, 01:11 PM
The B1100 takes some beating, A3, quick printer at a great price. My only gripe would be it's not a 6 colour printer.

Why you preffer 6 color printers? it cost more on inks. And Can you realy see the diference on pressed t-shirt or mug? I used to use 6 color printer and tbh I can not see the diference. Yes. When I use normal inks and print a4 or a3 photograps on photo paper then I can see the difrence. but not when use sublimation inks.

Kaz
18-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Justin seems to have you covered, though, I will add, I use the Ricoh GX7000 without problems, I think Justin was unlucky with his 5050's

Justin
18-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Why you preffer 6 color printers? it cost more on inks. And Can you realy see the diference on pressed t-shirt or mug? I used to use 6 color printer and tbh I can not see the diference. Yes. When I use normal inks and print a4 or a3 photograps on photo paper then I can see the difrence. but not when use sublimation inks.

Most definately, I see a big difference particularly in skintones. I also print designs that are scanned in pieces of material and the 6 colour reproduces tones so much better than the 4 colour. That said, for most day to day work I agree, 4 colours is perfectly adequate.

MugMonster
18-04-2010, 04:33 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for all the responses, it all seems pretty straightforward - although with the printers, it does seem that people have their favourites... so I'll do a bit more research before picking one up. I think to begin with, I'm probably going to start with a 4-colour, to keep those initial consumables costs to a minimum and see how I get on with it.

Graeme, I'll send you a PM - would love to see a sample of your mugs.

Another question I thought of...

8. Ballpark figure of what you're able to charge for your mugs? (Dependant on volume of course) I've seen the magic number of £6 a lot while trying to do some research.. just wondered what your experiences are of what the general mug-buying public are prepared to part with.

Thanks again all, this has been really useful for me so far!!

Kaz
18-04-2010, 05:42 PM
You need to take into account packaging and postal charges.

My postal boxes cost me about 20p each, and it costs £2.24 per mug to pst, that's using first class post.

I sell my mugs for between £5-6 dependant on what's on them. Obviously a full wrapround image costs more than text/one image/vector to produce, so that's reflected in the price

MugMonster
18-04-2010, 05:56 PM
So you're saying £5-£6 and then you charge your postage on top? Or you include your postage in that price?

Kaz
18-04-2010, 06:08 PM
Postage is on top of the sale price

MugMonster
18-04-2010, 06:16 PM
Postage is on top of the sale price

phew!

Justin
18-04-2010, 09:30 PM
I think you're right to go with the 4 colour printer to start with David. Speed & mass production isn't really an issue (just yet!) so you could start with something simple like the D88 or D120 but for the price bear in mind the new B1100 which is A3.

Biggest outlay will be your inks. You could save a little by using refill. carts possibly but this isn't ideal, better just to go for the full CIS if you can.

Price wise, many sellers (especially on eBay) are selling at silly prices. Your mugs are individually made and can be personalised so they should command a higher price. I sell wholesale to local shops for £4.50/£5 and they retail them out at £8-£10. If I sell direct to the public my own designs would be £6.99+postage. if you're going to sell at much less than that it really isn't worth the effort.

bms
18-04-2010, 09:53 PM
Plenty of useful advice here. I believe there are other posts here about the currently supported printers. Your choices are:
A4 - Epson B40W or Ricoh Gxe3300
A3 - Epson B1100, Epson Photo 1400 or Ricoh GX7000

The Ricoh GX7000 is A4 or A3, whereas the Epson B1100, Photo 1400 is A4, A3 and A3+. The A3+ paper gives you up to 13" x 19" paper size for the bigger stuff. All Ricohs use cartridges whereas Epsons use the Easyflow systems and you'll get more ink per £ spent with the Epson range compared to the Ricohs.

The cheapest printer on the market at present is the Ricoh GXe3300 but with this system you get 4 cartridges with 29ml of ink per cartridge (just under 120ml ink in total). Compare that to the entry level Epson B40W and you get 400ml of ink, the B1100 comes with 500ml and the Photo 1400 comes with 600ml. As the ink is going to be expensive then weigh this up in your original startup costs.

There are reviews on here of our DF1 mug press if you looking for low startup costs and if your looking to get fully started then we have some business startup deals which offer discounts on buying these separately:
http://www.printerowners.co.uk/sublimation/230/mug-press-startup-business-package.htm

Do your homework - there are plenty of users here who will have lots of good advice to give you and hopefully help you make your decision on what to buy. With most suppliers you would be welcome to visit any of them to see how the process works.

MugMonster
20-04-2010, 01:30 AM
That's great guys, a wealth of information here and probably more than enough to get me going.

I've been trying to figure out what the clear profits are per mug, again dependant on volume. Am I way off the mark by think it's possible to make anywhere between £2-£3 per mug depending on who you're selling to, all consumables taken into account?

bms
20-04-2010, 09:08 AM
Am I way off the mark by think it's possible to make anywhere between £2-£3 per mug depending on who you're selling to, all consumables taken into account?

Very achieveable I would expect. A mug, ink, paper, electricity will cost you no more than £1.50 - others might say £1.20, £1.32 etc but if you work on £1.50 as your base all in price then you'll always make a margin. Selling the mug at whatever price you set gives you your profit and allows you to cost in your time in terms of design work, pressing mugs etc.

frizbee
28-04-2010, 11:04 PM
I would say you are about spot on at £2 - £3 per mug but it depends on who you sell to, we sell to many at £2.50 ish in 100's £2.00 ish in 1000's down to as low as £1.49 for large repeat orders.

When starting out you really to do need to make more to cover some of your invetment and make a profit.

We use an 8 colour printer, never worked out if it costs that much more than a 4 colour as of course you only get the same amount of ink on the paper, in theory, the more colours you have the less ink you shoudl use, but not totally convinced.

Good luck and hope you do well, ask anything you like, there is a wealth of knowledge on here taht you are unlikely to find elsewhere.

David