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View Full Version : When is a computer you thought you owned not your own!



James990
27-02-2013, 12:37 PM
I thought you might like to know a strange thing that has just happened to me.

I bought back in 2008 a Dell computer, via eBay. Just after buying it I purchased direct from Dell, extended warranty. Over the years I have had Dell engineers out a number of times to repair it under the warranty.

This last week it has gone wrong again, and I am getting near to the end of the extended warranty, which I can't extend any further. An engineer came out, but was unable to sort it out, so I had expected the engineer to come again today.

Last evening Dell telephoned me and said that an engineer will not be coming and they informed that in fact this machine, is not mine but it belongs to Dell, and that they want it back.

How come I asked them that in nearly five years this issue has not been mentioned?

I had a phone call from them again this morning confirming that they want it back and that not only do they want it back, but it has to be in the same condition as they sold it to the original person. Which is different to the conditon I received it in!

I am of course going to seek advice from the CAB, but thought it was rather interesting, especially as they have taken nearly five years to claim it back. Sadly after all this time I don't have a receipt, and am certain I can't get anything via eBay that far back.

I could not get the guy from Dell to understand that after all this time that I don't have the receipt and could not remember how much it cost. Heck after five years would anyone remember how much they paid for something, I doubt it! But he just didn't want to know!

socialgiraffe
27-02-2013, 12:44 PM
hi James

Firstly contact ebay and ask them to supply you with all the transaction details for this computer. They will have it and will have to provide it.

I am not a lawyer but I would guess that either the company you purchased from went into liquidation (or similar) or plainly screwed Dell over so effectively and without you knowing you purchased stolen goods. Many companies (including myself) clearly state that the item belongs to my company until the invoice is paid even if it is sold on to a third party. My lawyer friend did state that although that is in my t&c's that it may not be realistically enforceable.

Lastly, I would write to Dell (do not email or call just so you can slow the process down), and ask them to prove their claim on the machine. You can state that you are waiting on ebay to provide you with the relevant documentation but without evidence from them how do you know its their machine?

James990
27-02-2013, 12:48 PM
Hi thanks for your reply,

How do I contact Ebay, I have tried to go to their contact us page, and can't find a way through that.

There is no email facility either.

Also after five years would they have the records, thought that they were deleted after 90 days?

James

James990
27-02-2013, 12:50 PM
Oh and your point about Dell proving it is their machine - when I asked the guy on th ephone for proff that it is their machine, he said that they don't have to prove it!

socialgiraffe
27-02-2013, 01:11 PM
I would telephone Ebay and I am sure they keep their records. After all your feedback score will go that far back and I assume you can look at the feedback and click on the item relating to it.

If it were me I would say to Dell the following:

"Funnily enough, someone else has just laid claim to this machine as well, so how do I know which one of you is telling the truth?"

As I say, I am no lawyer but if it were me I would simply say that unless they can provide evidence that this machine belongs to them then I will not entertain any conversation about ownership.

James990
27-02-2013, 01:13 PM
I hadn't thought about the feedback, will have a look through.

Dell have also told me that they are suspending my account and that other machines I have with warranty on them will not be honoured whilst this is going on!

socialgiraffe
27-02-2013, 01:22 PM
Fine, but I would point out to them that if you do need an engineer while this is going on that you will seek to recover any third party costs incurred due to their refusal.

I think you may need a chat with a lawyer. One letter from them may make the whole thing go away.

Absolutely hate the way big companies do business these days.

James990
27-02-2013, 01:27 PM
Yes, I used to work doing Dell repairs and they don't treat their engineers, who are not actually employed by Dell, but through other companies, so are self-employed, very well at all. On one occasion I was told point blank, by one of the Dell call centre engineers in India, that they don't trust us and don't believe us!

Am having a look through my feedback, but by now all that I can see is the listing number and am not sure how to get old listings, which I am certain are now deleted anyway, up.

Paul
27-02-2013, 01:33 PM
If you remember rough date then you can have a look in paypal account. If you see the price that look like one you could pay then it should have some reference with it.

FairyD
27-02-2013, 01:45 PM
Was about to say exactly that Paul....Paypal allows you to search back to your account being opened. I would have thought that this would fall under the same category as non-payment of debt..in Scotland after 5 years they can still chase you but you don't have to pay it back (okay, I've skipped a few steps there.....but that's basically what it means....in England it's 6 years.....but a company shouldn't be able to claim back this item after 5 years.....they should chase the ebay seller through the courts!!

TjCanvas
27-02-2013, 02:04 PM
If you have legal protection with your home insurance give them a call.

John G
27-02-2013, 02:18 PM
I'm no lawyer but IMO, Dell can only chase the person who owes the debt, if that debtor went into receivership, then Dell's case ends there. They either get paid, or lose it - same as anyone else that is owed money from the debtor.

Dell cannot claim money off you, you didn't buy it off them. I think either a talk with a solictor/lawyer or Citizens Advice would sort this out.

Russ
27-02-2013, 02:21 PM
I'd have thought if they are claiming 'stolen goods' they'd have to get the police to recover it?

James990
27-02-2013, 04:44 PM
Well I can't see how they can claim it is still there. Also why NOW, why not when I took out the extended warranty?

I have gone a long way back into Paypal, thank you Paul for that reminder, but as yet can only find one reference to the type of computer that they are claiming, just need to check with them the dates and I think I have got that info. If it is then it came to me just as a case and motherboard and I rebuilt it over a period of time. If they want it back as the guy said, in the condition they sold it to the other party, then they have no chance.

For your info it is a Dell XPS720, rather large machine mainly used by gamers, (They don't make them anymore either), not into gaming I just wanted a big machine to show off with!! Typical of me!!

I am going to the CAB on Monday, that is when the nearest one to me opens.

michc
27-02-2013, 05:22 PM
Suspect this was a computer bought through a company scheme where the person was able to buy it, at a greatly reduced price, and they paid for it monthly through their salary over 3 years. I know as I got one through one of my daughters. No-one has come back saying it's not mine but then I've not contacted Dell about it. I do seem to remember a clause in the initial contract saying the computer isn't the users and there needed to be an additional payment or returned (or something to that effect) at the end of the term (3 years). Hope that helps.

James990
27-02-2013, 05:37 PM
Not sure about that.

But hey ho, I have had it a number of years, it is crap anyway, and now doesn't work. Dell wont do the repairs, so at the end of the day, if they want it back, they will have to arrange the collection of it. If they think I am going to pay for it to be sent back to them, they can think again!

That is an interesting point about the police, I might even ask a police guy I know about it, that should be interesting. If it is stolen, I just to take of my stuff and let them take it into custody! :smile: The Dell can sort it out with the police!!

Thanks for all the comments, it has been entertaining and I appreciate you al taking the time to post!

jennywren
27-02-2013, 05:44 PM
Sorry to hear about the trouble with Dell, I expect know but remember to remove all off your art work and stuff before it goes any where. Easy to forget in times of pressure work family and commitments.

pisquee
27-02-2013, 05:52 PM
Dell website, there is a feature/page called "my products and services" - for you to have the extended warranty, then surely the machine in question's service tag is listed in this, or you will have an option to add it to your products and services - if it is, or you still can add it then do ... if the Dell website says that it is your then it must be ... take screen shots of this as evidence!

James990
27-02-2013, 05:58 PM
I have already decided to take out the hard drive and just bung in a blank one, not sure if it works or not, but thats not my problem!

Then I will use the hard drive from that machine in a caddy and use it as a back up drive! Sorted!

James990
27-02-2013, 06:00 PM
I will have a look and see what it says. The problem is that Dell despite me filling in the correct forms, still have the old buyer down as one of the contacts. I have asked them time and time and time again to change it, I have fill in the online forms more than once, but they are just a load of idiots.

Booze up in a brewery comes into mind!

Tans
02-03-2013, 12:46 PM
To put another spin on it - next time you have contact with Dell, advise them that you are also seeking reimbursement of the insurance/warranty fees you have been paying for all these years. You can't insure something you don't own :smile:

James990
02-03-2013, 01:59 PM
Yep, and a couple of other points that were suggested to me by the Police when I went to see them. Which is that Dell have committed a fraud by selling me the warranty in the first place, because if the machine is not mine then that cannot legally sell me warranty on the machine and by virtue of that are themselves breaking the law. Also by Selling me the warranty they are by default acknowleding that I do own the machine, and by coming out to do the repairs they are further coonfirming that I do own the machine. They cannot have it both ways!

Also the police have said that as I bought the machine in good faith that THEY (Dell) have to prove that THEY own it, and that they cannot insist that it comes back in the same condition that they sold it to the original buyer.

I have, thanks to Paul pointing out the trackability on Paypal, found the receipt for it, and I bought it as a case, nothing in it. I have payed for eveything that has gone into it, and if they want it back they can have the case only!

After talking with the police on Thursday, I telephoned Dell and asked for them to pass a message onto the person/department that contacted me, and asked them to ask that department to call me back and I said that I wanted to talk with them further on this issue. I received a phone call on Thursday, sadly it went to my answerphone, but they said 'Thank you for your call, we understand that this issue is with our legal department and that they will be in contact with you'. Just goes to show what a load of idiots thay are in that they cannot even take a simple message and pass it on!

Mind you in the three years that I worked repairing Dell computers I found this happened time and time and time again. The thoughts about a booze up in a brewery comes very much into mind when I hear the word Dell.

Now adays when someone says Dell, I tell them to stop swearing and to go and was their mouths out!!

James990
13-03-2013, 02:00 PM
Well the saga goes on.

Dell have said that they want to see my receit for the purchase of the computer, which all I have is the payment advice from Paypal, which I have printed out and scanned and sent to them. They are saying that this is not acceptable.

So I have asked them what is, and am awaiting their response.

socialgiraffe
13-03-2013, 03:21 PM
I would tell them to go ram it James.

As you have said, the police has said that it is down to them to prove they own it. As they have not provided this and you have provided a receipt (paypal is good enough) tell them that you will see them in court if it continues.

James990
13-03-2013, 03:32 PM
In my reply to them I said

‘According to my solicitor by default Dell have accepted that I am the owner of this machine when Dell took my money to pay for the three years warranty on the machine, and that Dell have further confirmed I am the owner of the machine by virtue of the fact that Dell have sent engineers out to repair the machine on more than one occasion.

If Dell are saying that I am not the owner, then either Dell are committing a fraud or have taken money under false pretenses by selling me the warranty on a machine I don't own, Dell cannot have it both ways.’

As yet I have not had a reply to my email!

I shall also be pointing out to Dell that due to the fact that I only have a telephone call from Dell informing me that they own the machine and that the telephone number was withheld I require proof of their claim on the machine. If they are not prepared to do this, then I shall have no alternative then to ask the court to order Dell to prove that they own the machine.

Dell will have to take this matter to the County Court, and I will insist that they use the County Court near me in Croydon and not one near to them!

James

Maccbean
23-04-2013, 01:55 PM
I've got a Dell computer you can have if you get desperate and they insist on taking it back! I wouldn't buy one ever again. My last two purchases have been second hand gaming machines from Ebay that work perfectly with photos. And a bargain at £120!!

James990
23-04-2013, 02:13 PM
Well Dell (Don't Ever Last Long) have now refunded the warranty money. I have told them that the police have told me not to return the computer unless I have proof that they own it.

Also if that is the case, then as I have stored it for over three years at my place than I have sent them a bill for the storage costs at £1 per day. Funny they have not replied as yet!!

Jeff
24-04-2013, 05:55 PM
Also if that is the case, then as I have stored it for over three years at my place than I have sent them a bill for the storage costs at £1 per day. Funny they have not replied as yet!!

Amazing story! Please keep us informed when and if they answer and how they react about refunding you the storage costs! :)