VersaCAMM vs White Laser vs Chromaluxe

[Justin]

Been looking into the options for full colour t-shirt printing other than sublimation today and read very mixed reviews.

I've been talking recently about getting a BN-20 which would certainly produce decent garment transfers and offer many other products, stickers, posters etc. Chromablast looks perfectly good for white shirts only so I'd need a secondary system to print dark colours anyway. White toner lasers are another viable option and I hear good things about these.

Would be interested in getting this discussion going with anyone who has one of the above systems :-)

[Stitch Up]

We have the BN-20 Justin and it's fine for the smaller left breast logos and the like, for anything bigger, like full front images, I personally think it's horrible. The feel is just unacceptable and when cold, is quite stiff. The other thing you can't do are gradual blends into the colour of the shirt. Spend a little more and get a NeoFlex ;)

[Justin]

Cheers for that. Have to say that was my main concern with the bn20 and a bit of a trade off.

Would love the neoflex but I'd worry I wouldn't be putting enough through out to start with.... and I think it would be a fair bit more?!?!

[gstk]

Cheers for that. Have to say that was my main concern with the bn20 and a bit of a trade off.

Would love the neoflex but I'd worry I wouldn't be putting enough through out to start with.... and I think it would be a fair bit more?!?!

Just when you think you have made your mind up you read this one and the bn suddenly becomes doubtful

Grrrrrr.. Decisions decisions

[Justin]

Lol, yes bit of a minefield!

Appreciate what you're saying John about the feel off a larger transfer. I used to print transfers on a large format machine and found Dorotape had a great material for whites that had a very slight hand but still needed breaking up with space..... You just can't beat dtg :-)

[socialgiraffe]

Hi Justin

Unfortunately there is not a one machine fits all approach to this industry as you know.

I have a Versacamm and while I do print some garments with it, like Logobear says, the larger transfers are not brilliant, depending on the subject. I have done a few large ones and they have looked pretty good, but I think this is by pure chance. Also note that the white ink system for the Roland is no good for garments, the ink is not strong enough for it. Mine is configured for white and metallic printing but that is because speed is not an issue and my customers require this. The white ink really comes into its own for things like window stickers etc and is really superb for that sort of thing. I have used the metallic but personally I have yet to print something that gives me the WOW factor (maybe I should refine my design skills!).

I am taking delivery of the TMT white toner system on Monday and although I will not be using it for garments I will probably dabble with it. From what I hear it is really good with garments and the end result is soft and nice to touch.

If you want, send me a file and I will print it on both machines and post up to you so you can make a decision.

I have owned a DTG before and although they have improved considerably I still do not think they are good enough just yet. For a start you are limited to perfectly flat areas, so things like hoodies with pockets or zips are out of the question. Also, I was talking to some guys at a screen printers I know. They print approximately 8 million garments a year. I asked them about the Konit range of DTGs (the one I looked at is 180K). The interesting thing they said was that at the moment they felt that the quality of DTG is not good enough. Now I have been really impressed with some of the DTG work that I have seen on this forum, but then I have also seen some of the screen print work these guys do and I have to be honest, I think it is better!

If I had money to spend on a machine and knowing what I know now I think I would purchase the white toner system from TMT. Get that earning money and then think about a versacamm at a later date depending on if you think window decals, canvas prints and stickers would be a good earner up there

I suppose you could sum it up like this:

Versacam
Very good for: stickers, window clings, canvas, posters, car vinyl wraps
Okay for: garments, although feathering on a dark garment is not possible

TMT
Very good for: garments, any colour, shape etc.
Okay for: mugs and a huge range of other stuff supplied by TMT

DTG
Very good for: t-shirts and sweatshirts and other flat garments
can not really be used for anything else.

[Justin]

Thanks Simon. Are you going for the A4 or A3 TMT solution? Can I ask prices on these? Really do like the look of that but I'm thinking A4 would be too small for a lot of designs.

[socialgiraffe]

I am going for the A4 @ £1995 plus VAT from TMT.

Everyone is selling them at the same price, but if you purchase from TMT you get some free boxes of paper. Plus their service is one of the best in the industry.

I am not going to be using it for garments but only mugs. Along with a chemist I know I have been testing various chemicals and have found one that makes the item dishwasher proof. Easy to apply etc and I had the item tested in a mates pub who left it in there for 2 weeks. A quick calculation says that was about 500 washes with industrial strength dishwasher tablets. Personally, if someone complains after 500 washes I will tell them to go ram it!!!!

And before anyone asks, yes it meets all the regulations for H&S and Food standards :-)

[gstk]

have you seen the consumable prices - I would like to know how accurately you can break down the costs to get an accurate unit price.

[smo]

The white tonors are super, they are very stretchy and as said have quite a soft feel. There are no discounts as OKI are controlling the retail pricing through the 2 outlets (TMT and Xpres).

If you believe TMT the A3 is not as good, but Xpres say its fine - swings and roundabouts as there is no love lost between the 2 companies.

The thing to watch with these is calculating the tonor cost per page, the costs are ALWAYS quoted at 5% coverage, well we probably would have 60% coverage with an a4 transfer if not more so the cost is massively higher than the manufacturer would like you to believe and if either TMT or Xpres quote you costs ask them on what coverage its based.

[socialgiraffe]

I recently asked TMT for a price on printing a batch of CPM using the white toner system. Without seeing the artwork they quoted me £1.00 per page. Now I am pretty sure that was a discounted price as I had ordered the system by then, but I am also pretty sure they will not lose out financially. So if I based it even on £2.00 per page I am still within budget.

[stuart]

One of the guys from TMT told me that by the time we get round to fespa the paper will down in price by £1 a sheet.He also said that they dont sell the a3 version because they are very good yet.
stu

[logobear]

I am happy with my TMT A4 white printer.
I have done analysis of ratio a4 to a3 print, and it was 18 to 1 and many large prints can be made from parts of A4 - so I have not had any issue limited to a4.
As I understand it, the A3 version cannot regulate toner supply accurately, so tmt have withdrawn it until Oki can make it work.
The 'Space Controller' sortware is a great advantage of the TMT solution over the others; it acts as a separate extra driver to put down white where it is needed. I cannot see the printer performing well just from a windows driver!
The process to apply laser transfere white is very easy, but media costs are a bit of a shock, looking forward to lower price, and I understand better look and performance too when the European media becomes available soon.
Another big plus of the Oki 711w is it's small size; i have mine stacked above another laser printer so no extra footprint!

[chongsta]

One of the guys from TMT told me that by the time we get round to fespa the paper will down in price by £1 a sheet.He also said that they dont sell the a3 version because they are very good yet.
stu

Hi all

Yes i was told by TMT at the Printwear show that the papers etc will come down eventually as competition grows. The Rep also told me stay away from the A3 version as they've had problems after 20-30 runs/prints with it! They said that they weren't supporting the A3 just now. He also said that Ricoh are about to bring out a white toner/colour printer around or just after christmas. to be honest im not sure why he was telling me this considering he was diverting business from TMT but I did stipulate that I wanted an A3 printer simply for doing much larger prints. I find the A4 to be too small for my wants, fine for chest badges etc but larger prints is my wish.

now then...at the show i had a sample tshirt from xpres from the A4 OKI in question. Ive worn and washed it about 6 times and alarmingly the print is very cracked in places! If i was a customer who had bought a tee with a decent sized print on it and then this happens after a few washes, I would be a little pee'd of with it!

I went to the Ralawise roadshow who were also showing the a4 OKI but the guy there went through the print/press in a different way, he said that after the print you should stretch the tee to actually crack the print...and then re-press it for a few seconds. This crack/re-press puts the print into the weave of the garment better! Is this the way to do it? Xpres didnt do this when they demo'd it to me.

for now im sticking to my ultra thin PU vinyl from grafityp

cheers
Dave

[smo]

You should certainly stretch the white tonor print after pressing, I dont believe you should stretch it to the point of cracking though.

[logobear]

the more we do, the more i think you have got to get it to the point of cracking..... crack and refuse it b4 the client gets it.
Apparently the new machine produced product available soon is much more robust ...