A2 or larger

[Paul]

hi guys!
Asking for bit of advice here...
I know nothing about printers that print larger then A3 so excuse me my ignorance.

What is the cheapest option to go for sublimation printer that prints A2 or larger?
Preferred 4 colours system.

thanks

[Justin]

Epson 4800 series are A2+ Paul, I've seen these at half decent prices.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epson-Stylus-PRO-4800-Inkjet-Printer-Bundle-/151079210515?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_ JN&hash=item232d05ce13

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epson-4880-Stylus-Pro-Large-Format-Inkjet-Printer-/330954280488?pt=UK_CamerasPhoto_Printers_Printers_ JN&hash=item4d0e698e28

But, as you're into refil carts etc. maybe better just to bite the bullet and go wide format?

[Paul]

what do you mean by wide format? what size?

[Justin]

Wide format is 42", I guess it depends on exactly what you plan to be printing and pressing?

[Paul]

lol :)
then A2+ will be ideal :)

[ssp]

This is what i am getting paul, they will sell it me fully serviced, with no inks ready to go.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epson-Stylus-Pro-7600-Large-Format-Printer-/300926636013

[Andrew]

Once you go above the 4000 range then it is all roll fed paper rather than sheets which I found a pain. If you are printing mugs I find it much more convenient to put through A4.

[Paul]

ssp! 7600 looks cool! how many colours is used in this printer?

Andrew, this is what i need. roll feeding. i already have desktop for smaller prints.

[Andrew]

ssp! 7600 looks cool! how many colours is used in this printer?

Andrew, this is what i need. roll feeding. i already have desktop for smaller prints.

The 4800/4880 will do both roll fed and sheet fed. The 7000 series tends to be no more expensive than the 4000's though and you can even pick up the 9600's for around the same cost..... might be an extra £100. Just pot luck on what is about at the time.

[Justin]

I think you can get rolls for the 4400 printers Paul but if you can justify a large format surely this would be a good way to go? Tell us what you're printing so we can get a clearer picture :-)

[Paul]

i cant say just yet Justin :) but will show pictures once is done :)

[JMugs]

Hmm
Looking at the same sort of thing .... now I suspect you and I might be looking at the same thing!

Janners.

[ssp]

the 7600 is a bargain and i can get the inks for it from my usual supplier also i can get the texprint xp hr rolls for it as well, its a low cost no brainer for me. I am all for keeping costs down! it takes 7 inks if memory serves me well.

[Paul]

crap :( iam after 4 ink system :( but if cost is right i may swap for more :)

[pisquee]

We've been exhibiting at a trade show at Harrogate, so not been on here for a few days. The 7600/9600 are essentially the same printer, just the 7600 is A1 width and the 9600 A0. Both roll feed, but you don't have to load them up with a full size roll - both will happily take an A2/17" roll which can be more convenient/economic. Both are 7 colours, so you have CMYK + LC, LM and Light Black. We moved from 4 colour wide format to the 7 colours, and there's no way that we'd go back, as we get noticeable y better colours from it (and this is with us producing custom ICC profiles for them)
Being the 'same' printer, they share a lot of components - so if you say, started with with 7600 (or even the 4000/4400) you could trade up to the next size, and keep your refill carts for instance. On second hand market (like on Ebay for instance) there is not really much difference in cost of buying a 17", 24" or 44" (ie, Stylus Pro 4000, 7600, 9600 era models) so if you can afford the space, you may as well go for the 9600. They go for around £300-£500. They are built like tanks, (apparently by Mutoh for Epson) so, a completely different ilk to the domestic/office printers churned out by Epson normally used for small sublimation. One recommendation I would have for buying one of these second hand, is go and see it working- you want to see a complete nozzle check pattern ideally. We've bought some in with a few apparent blocked nozzles which have cleaned up fine, and others that haven't printed a drop of ink, or ones which no matter what you try won't unblock (save for removing the print head and replacing it) run them into the ground, and then buy another one is what i'd say, as they are relatively inexpensive, and it's possibly cheaper/quicker/easier to do that than get it repaired.

My only real complaint on these models, is due to their age, is they are slower than the more current range of wide formats, and so we may need to either upgrade to a newer one, or buy another 9600 if orders keep coming in. But I do love that we can fill up the carts with 250ml of ink, put a 100m roll of paper on the spindle, and just let them print 24/7 when we're busy!

Am sure I'm missing some points, but am knackered after the show, so may come back tomorrow and add some bits.

[JMugs]

Ink options?
Looking at a used epson 4880, every search I do brings me back to sawgrass for sub ink, no problems there, but is there another supplier of sub ink cartridges that isn't a cheap chinese pot luck ink?

The other thing is cleaning down before putting sublimation ink in involves what? I have found some basic maintenance info on cleaning, but I assume a cleaning cartridge has to be put in for each colour to fully flush everything as well, or am I wrong there?

All info welcome

Janners.

[logobear]

We had a 7600 for about 7 years until we sold it 3 years ago. brilliant printer, but is it possible to re-ink with Sub inks, I would have thought you would have to replace the print head, which is not cheap, probably as much as the prices quoted above again.

[JMugs]

[QUOTE=logobear;74221 is it possible to re-ink with Sub inks, I would have thought you would have to replace the print head, which is not cheap, probably as much as the prices quoted above again.[/QUOTE]

I would have thought a full flush with a water based cleaning solution (or even water?) should be possible, but I would like to hear if it is rather than being the one who discovers it isn't!

Janners.

[Andrew]

No need for flushing of any sort in my opinion/experience. Just put in the subli ink and power clean. Easy to work out when the ink is through.

[pisquee]

We've changed them (stylus Pro wide formats of various models) straight over from Epson carts to sub ink. In the service menu there is "INIT FILL" which purges the current ink, and refills the head/dampers/lines with the new ink. Had no problems going straight from standard Epson ink to sublimation inks.

[pisquee]

Ink options?
Looking at a used epson 4880, every search I do brings me back to sawgrass for sub ink, no problems there, but is there another supplier of sub ink cartridges that isn't a cheap chinese pot luck ink?

The problem with finding an alternative to Sawgrass for this model, is finding a good quality ink manufacturer that makes the "light light black" sublimation ink - not many do. I've known people have to stick with Sawgrass for this one ink, and then use another manufacturer in the other channels, and then obviously getting a custom ICC made, which you'd likely want to do to get the best out of a quality machine like that anyways whose ever ink you were using.

[Justin]

....and of course, the 4880 isn't deemed large format either.

[JMugs]

Doh!..Doh!

[pisquee]

If you're looking at the used market, then you should be able to pick up a printer which is wide format in the eyes of Sawgrass for the same price as a used 17" - the prices don't vary that much, especially on older models.
In terms of ink for such, you don't need to look for ink for a specific printer model. If it's water based sublimation ink, which most is, and made by a reputable manufacturer then it's gonna work on an Epson piezo based printer. You will have more options for which ink manufacturer you use if you stick to printers without the light light black - most other colours are available, (including red, blue and orange.)
So, if you have a large format printer, then your serach would be for large format or bulk sublimation ink - they normally come in litre quantities (or more) for putting into the refill cart systems (usually around 250ml capacity) or some pre-filled carts are also available, but these do work out more expensive in the long run, and not as convenient. Epson printers usually come in ranges of compatibility, so if you're trading up to a different model, you may be able to keep your refill carts (you may need to just change the chips on them.) The same goes for prefilled carts usually being compatible across a number of printers.

[JMugs]

Thanks
Gradually getting there.

Janners.

[storminteractive]

Hi guys, new to the forum but looking for some advice if thats okay? I am after an A2 dye sub printer that I can use to print on dye sub paper in order to print onto polyester fabric. I would also in addition like to orint the usual iphone cases and mugs etc. I have seen 4880's for sale secondhand which would probably work but ideally I want brand new machines. I cannot afford thousands of pounds. my ideal price is about £500. Could anyone recommend a brand new printer at all? I like the look of the epson 3880 which although is £800 I would he willing to pay that little extra but sawgrass do not seem to support this model. the printers will not be used immediately, only sat in their boxes for the first few months so I really do not want secondhand units unless it is the only real choice I have in my budget? Any help would be fantastic as genuinely stuck on what to do. I will be making swimwear made from polyester and need A2 machines. A3 machines are just too small. Many thanks to anyone who can offer some advice. Steve

[pisquee]

If you're really wanting to do fabric printing, then you will quickly find that A2 is not big enough. You really want A1 as a minimum, or ideally A0.
For your budget you are looking at the second hand market, and your budget should be able to get you a used 7600 or 9600 Epson Stylus Pro on Ebay, and a set of refillable cartridges. Inks would be on top of that, but bulk wide format inks aren't expensive per ml compared to the smaller desktop consumer inks.
I wouldn't buy a second hand one without seeing it running, and a full nozzle check.

[Angloman]

NOTE TO ALL

Large format printers 24 -46" all have separate print heads,the most expensive are epson followed by hp and cannon.As a procurement officer you need to know how many prints the machine has done, ask for a print out service menu,all big machines will give you one.
Example there was a cannon 42" wide printer on ebay,nearly the latest model it was £600>well was it really cheap, lets take a look at printheads needed changing £400 each, and then it said little ink left so as a 12 cartridge machine it was £1200 for the small set of refills .so this little printer suddenly became not cheap.Please check any secondhand printers before either on ebay or any site.See if the warranty is available that ebay offer,because it could be worth its weight in gold

only advice take it or leave it

[Angloman]

I have companies I bought from for schools that will give you some good prices,especially Cannon machines.The new models have software to tell you exactly how much ink each print has used and gives you the print out cost so no guessing on production price

[pisquee]

NOTE TO ALL...Large format printers 24 -46" all have separate print heads

Our 7600 and 9600 printers only have single print heads.


the most expensive are epson followed by hp and cannon.
Most expensive print heads or printers in general? There's certainly more expensive printers than Epson, I've not looked into comparative head prices though.


there was a cannon 42" wide printer on ebay ... a 12 cartridge machine it was £1200 for the small set of refills
That is a lot for a set of refill carts - the sets for the 7600/9600 printers are only around £100, and can be imported from China for around half that.


only advice take it or leave it
We work on the principal that we are buying old machines, but get them dirt cheap (£250-£500) and know that they aren't going to last forever, and that most likely if they die they won't be worth getting fixed, and that we'll just buy the next good deal on another old one. the refill carts will still be the same, and so will the ink.

My only advice is to do your research before buying, whether it be a printer, or what ink you are going to use.

[Paul]

I know i will go for inktek. most descent gamut out there... But need some more help when buying epson 7600. Never had as large printer as that :)

[pisquee]

Try and find out its history Paul, how hard a life it has had ... the best ones we've picked up have been owned from new by artists for their own printing, rather than been used in a commerical print shop, equally, ones owned by architects and only printing a few thin lines on large bit of paper, rather than full bleed artworks, or design students sometimes get them for uni as there is too much demand on the uni machines. Definitely look at the nozzle check before buying it, and don't buy if is isn't a full check. The nozzel check, and other reports can all be printed from the printer's own control panel without need for a computer to be hooked up, so easy to do, as long as there are some inks still in the printer. they can load A4 pages for this.
Glad you're happy with InkTec inks! :-)

[Paul]

Thanks for that! I will keep my eye on them on ebay and ask some questions.

Yeah. Inktek is alright. It has One of the best gamuts once profiled corectly.

[JMugs]

I have been chuffed to beans with my 7600, any problems have been of my doing.
The print quality just gets me excited.
Paul you will be hooked.

Janners.

[pisquee]

I have been chuffed to beans with my 7600, any problems have been of my doing.
The print quality just gets me excited.
Paul you will be hooked.

Janners.

Be careful though, get the 7600 and you'll be wondering if you should have got the 9600! ;-)

[Paul]

Iam already looking for 9600 lol. ;)
similar prices :)

[pisquee]

And once you've got your first one, you'll be wanting to buy a second for pigment ink printing!

[Paul]

Plan is to get one 7600 for sublimation and 9600 for canvas printing and ither oversized items... But... If i menge to get huge press then i may swap jobs for those printers :)

[pisquee]

We decided on the other way around, that for our artwork printing on papers to stick to the 7600, and the 9600 for sublimation work.

[Alastair@Xpres]

Hello Paul,

We have a couple of 4880's exDemo here which would save you cost and you would get Xpres support too?
Also the A1 upgrade is not much of a jump so most people just go A1, especially when you get leasing involved too!

I would recommend

Epson 4880
Epson SCT3000
Epson 7890

The latter being my favorite due to an 8 colour ink configuration with a large print width.
Happy hunting!

[Paul]

Thanks! Are you on p&p ??

[Alastair@Xpres]

Hello Paul we won't be at P&P but our office is not too far away and we are running an open house event at the same time if you want to pop in to our extensive new showroom and have a look. I have posted the details below just in case this is of interest to you.
Have an enjoyable day

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2444&d=1392141708

[marek]

hi, i'm new member here. i'm interesting for large format printing. i wont to know, witch printers is good for canvas printing. i make a sublimation printing at this moment, but i wont to make a canvas too. witch ink i need to use for this? witch material for canvas i need? i founded something about pigment printing, but not a lot. i need to understand full process of this. what ewer i can use? i mean witch technology? how its working? do i need fix the color after printing? expect sublimation, because i dont wont to buy large format heat press machine. or its the other way how i can transfer the color from paper to polyester, mug...with pigment ink?
thanks,
Marek

[marek]

have 9600 refillable cartridges? can i use one printer for pigment, sublimation and chromablast printing, just change the cartridges?

[Justin]

Hi Marek, please be careful when replying to threads as some of these are quite old. Also, you are replying to different threads with the same questions, you really need to start a new thread to get the information you need and to help save further future confusion :-)

[marek]

why everybody use epson printers?9600, 7600. on ebay is a lot of hp large format printers? why is epson better?
Marek

[pisquee]

HP printers use heat in the print head, which will give bad results if you try putting sublimation inks in, whereas Epsons don't.

[marek]

pisquee
but i can use it with pigment ink?
Marek

[pisquee]

Yeah, just make sure it's ink for a wide format HP, and ICCs are available

[marek]

pisquee

can u answer me this question please?
can i use one printer for pigment, sublimation and chromablast printing, just change the cartridges? i mean epson 9600

[pisquee]

No, the ink lines are long, and probably hold around 100ml, so, if you were to change the carts over, you would lose 100ml of each colour (700ml) of ink each time, which would be an expensive waste of ink and time.
7600 and 9600 printers are so cheap on Ebay you may aswell have one for each type of printing you want to do - this is what we have done - a 9600 for sublimation and a 7600 for pigment, with an additional 7600 kept as spare.