PDA

View Full Version : SILK SCREEN PRINTING



AJLA
18-05-2010, 06:15 PM
Can anyone tell me ...


Does the appearance of an image printed silk screen method appear to be impregnated into cloth the like the subli shirts as opposed to a bit of plastic stuck onto the cloth/

Does Plastisol sit ontop with a plasticky feel too?

Or do they appear the same?

Paul
18-05-2010, 06:17 PM
its sit on top. ;) and it has funny feel too.

AJLA
18-05-2010, 06:26 PM
They both sit on top?

Paul
18-05-2010, 06:36 PM
I am not sure if i got you right...
silk printing is this same as screen printing. you can use plastisol and waterbased ink. both sit on top. but waterbased ink has less feel. is more smoth. but I dont know to much about it. I only used plastisol. great stuff btw ;)

AJLA
19-05-2010, 09:59 AM
I probably didn't explain it very well Paul. I often see t shirts which are printed but the print is almost in the material and you can't really feel it.
Some you can see and feel that sit ontop,

So I understand that the same equipment is used but a different type of ink to acheive this?

John G
19-05-2010, 10:30 AM
It used to be called silk screen printing as the mesh used on the screens was made of silk - that was in the early stages and I have never used a silk screen - all either steel, nylon or polyester now.

Plastisol does sit on the top of the material - you can get additives to give it a soft feel etc. If the image is in the material I think its either woven, dye subbed or dyed.

Cheers John

AJLA
19-05-2010, 10:40 AM
WOVEN :?

Do you dye your shirts John?

Which method appears to be more flat or soft?

And do these last longer than vinyl?

How long is a peice of string I know because it depends so much on how you wash etc I produced myself and staff vinyl printed tees more than 3 years ago and we are still wearing them (weather permitting in rainy Cornwall)

John G
19-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Hi, I meant the ones you see in shops like Topshop etc with prints on, all over the top, are either dyed, woven or even dye subbed.

Plastisol printed tops in high st shops are making a come back but yes - the print does sit ontop of the fabric and can't be ironed.
I screen print all my tops as that's the business I'm in - screen printing. That is unless they are for hen nights or individually personalised - I use vinyl for these.

Being quite new to dye sub I haven't had the time to source or try any of the dye sub garments yet but will look into adding these to my promo range when I get the time. I use my Ricoh/press for mugs only at the moment.

Cheers John

AJLA
19-05-2010, 03:46 PM
So dye ing is a process that you or I cloud do with different equipment?

John G
19-05-2010, 04:16 PM
No - I don't know anything about dyeing and haven't got the equipment to do it - but I think thats the way they manufacture the T'shirts, dresses etc you see in high st shops. They are not poly but have the image impregnated so I think its some sort of dye process as you can iron over them without knacking the print.

Cheers john

AJLA
19-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Oh well back to the drawing board as I think hat that is what I wanted...... something impregnated into the cotton or a t least the flatest option available :cry: :cry: :cry:

I t would be great to see the variations of printing methods on tees side by side to see how flat they are.

Paul
19-05-2010, 08:55 PM
I think you would like screen printed garments with waterbased inks. they quite flat and got good feel.

Justin
19-05-2010, 09:00 PM
http://dischargescreenprinting.com/

Worth a mention maybe. Discharge removes the dye from the shirt...read on above link.

Some great example shots here http://dischargescreenprinting.com/examples.html

John G
19-05-2010, 09:13 PM
Good find Justin, never heard of it before but that must be the way they mass produce T' shirts for high st shops.

The ink/dye is impregnated within the material - clever stuff, but not really practical on small scale, I don't think it would be cost effective.

Justin
19-05-2010, 09:19 PM
I discussed it briefly with my screen printer a while back. I don't think it's particularly easy to do and the inks are a little nasty. Things may have moved on since then, certainly an interesting process though.

Paul
19-05-2010, 10:30 PM
basicly discharge is like a bleach. is killing the dye in the fabric. is bit tricky to use as all fabric a diferent. so some amount of discharge for gildan would be enough but thi same amount woud not be for FOTL.

AJLA
20-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Very interesting read but it doesnt sound as straight forward ,aybe.

Now really stupid question, John ...you use the water based inks is this what most volume screen printers use? More cost effective easier to apply? Or is it just about the appearance of the end product?

And why did you choose to use plastisol Paul, again the price, appearance or is it used mainly by lower volume producers.

Sorry but I just seem to be going round and round in circles.

Paul
20-05-2010, 01:15 PM
plastisol is industry standard and is easer to use for me. and i think it last longer. good for short and long runs too as it need to be cured to dry it out. water based one is need to be used as soon as is on the screen coz it tend to dry quick. pricevise is roughly this same i think but as i said. never used water based ink. all screen procces is bit messy but great fun after u crack it. if you want i can send you dvd with screen printing training.

AJLA
20-05-2010, 01:32 PM
That would be great Paul, I can send you an envelope with a stamp on if you like.

Paul
20-05-2010, 02:02 PM
no. dont worry about stamp. just pm your address and i will sort it out tomorrow. regard to screen printing... you know that you can print transfers on paper cure them and use them when ever you want??? great idea and huge time saver...

AJLA
20-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Never thought of that either paul. There is so much to research isn't there?

Pm on way.

Paul
20-05-2010, 06:23 PM
yes. there is loads! :) this dvd give you idea how to do it :)

John G
20-05-2010, 09:59 PM
Like Paul said - Plastisol (Sericol's Texopaque) is used throughout the industry and seems to be the standard for fabric printing. I've used it for over 20 years now, tried other makes but still end up going back to Texopaque ink every time.

About 12 years ago we tried Sericol's water based plastisol (Texopaque Aqua, I think it was called) but it had a tendancy to dry on the screen which caused major problems on long runs. It might have changed now but I prefer the standard Texopaque.

Cheers John

AJLA
21-05-2010, 10:09 AM
So Texopaque . When used is it how you use it or the mesh used which will give a thinner (not sure if thats the correct description) flatter appearance on the shirt?

If you make a screen for a customer with the intention of storing it for them for future use could that be washed out in a year, two or so and then be re used or does there come a time when there is no turning back and the screen is no longer of use?

Paul
21-05-2010, 10:55 AM
hi mandy. yes. is loads about screen. it depence what mesh you using. finer mesch is better for smaller deposit of ink. great for half tones ans finer details in your art work. and you can store your screens! just wash them after use and chuck it on the shelf for future. i dont know if the is any time for storage. but i dont think so... but when you print few 1000's tee's then you may need to change your squeegee. dvd i just sent you will cover everything about mesh, screens etc... so your head will be full up of new knolage!

AJLA
21-05-2010, 11:25 AM
OK thanks PaulI look forward to receiving it.

AJLA
21-05-2010, 11:55 AM
What is the technical term for a screen printing station that rotates like a carousel?

Kaz
21-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Screen printing carousel?

That brings up a few results on ebay ;)

AJLA
21-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Not just a pretty face hey! Now why didn't i think of that :roll:

mbprintsolutions
26-10-2010, 01:47 AM
Hi,
it is possible that what you are referring to is discharge ink, which is waterbased and removes the base colour from the garment replacing it with colour when heat cured under the flash dryer. Alternatively a discharge white undebase may be used, and waterbased colours overprinted.
This process cannot be carried out wet on wet as with plastisol, the discharge ink carries a bleaching agent which basically burns out leaving its dye behind. This discharge must be carried out between each colour. The result is a design with no feel, that is completely wash and iron resistant. Quick search on youtube for discharge printing will explain in detail.

Just a thought but looking at the type of work you presently produce from your website, and the issues you appear to have with screens, stencils etc can I suggest the following, all of which I occasionally use when printing on dark garments.

Make positives from red or black sign vinyl, onto acetate which will allow far longer exposure times than inkjet or laser film then
Double coat the print side (non squeege side) of your screen, drying between coats for increased stencil thickness. Expose for longer to achieve a ticker stencil.
Increase the efficiency of your exposure lamps with a white correx board enclosure.
Finally for a quick robust stencil, use nylon garment vinyl, cut un-mirrored and apply to print side of screen after weeding out image area. I have used this method to single hit royal blue fleece with white waterbased ink through a 29 mesh. This gives a crisp edge definition despite the low mesh count. A quick spray of garment film remover and stencil reclaims from screen leaving no residue.
Use a good quality opaque white ink, and mix well before attempting to print. Opaque Plastisol tends to thicken in tub, a gentle warming will get it flowing and mixing better.
Finally, to get a look more like garment vinyl, i use the waste backing paper from sign vinyl on top of printed garment in heat press at around 165 degrees with little to no pressure for around 40 seconds, peeling the paper from print hot. This ensures the print is cured, and also gives a really smooth finish to the finished garment. ;)

Keep at it, and one day soon you will get a feel for printing onto different surfaces, when I started screenprinting I used to get the jitters just thinking of starting a paying job. I now print anything more than six garments in preference to vinyl as its more rewarding and to be honest can be quicker and more profitable.

Matt

ART DISCO
14-09-2011, 03:21 AM
Hi,
One thing to think about before using discharge inks is it's notoriously short shelf life once mixed (some are only 8 hours maybe slightly longer if refrigerated and depending on the brand) so if you are going to be using it yourself be sure you know exactly what you need printing because it can be quite expensive/tricky stuff so make sure you have a battle plan in place before you mix it up:)

Going back to earlier in the thread...

I print in entirely water-based ink and it seems to be become increasingly popular because it's environmentally better, very easy to clean up (washes away with water, no harsh chemicals) and the ink sits into the fabric, giving a soft feel unlike Plastisol.

That being said Plastisol has other strengths as mentioned, but for me water based is fantastic.

Good luck with it all,

Lucy

GoldRapt
17-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Hi,
it is possible that what you are referring to is discharge ink, which is waterbased and removes the base colour from the garment replacing it with colour when heat cured under the flash dryer. Alternatively a discharge white undebase may be used, and waterbased colours overprinted.
This process cannot be carried out wet on wet as with plastisol, the discharge ink carries a bleaching agent which basically burns out leaving its dye behind. This discharge must be carried out between each colour. The result is a design with no feel, that is completely wash and iron resistant. Quick search on youtube for discharge printing will explain in detail.

Just a thought but looking at the type of work you presently produce from your website, and the issues you appear to have with screens, stencils etc can I suggest the following, all of which I occasionally use when printing on dark garments.

Make positives from red or black sign vinyl, onto acetate which will allow far longer exposure times than inkjet or laser film then
Double coat the print side (non squeege side) of your screen, drying between coats for increased stencil thickness. Expose for longer to achieve a ticker stencil.
Increase the efficiency of your exposure lamps with a white correx board enclosure.
Finally for a quick robust stencil, use nylon garment vinyl, cut un-mirrored and apply to print side of screen after weeding out image area. I have used this method to single hit royal blue fleece with white waterbased ink through a 29 mesh. This gives a crisp edge definition despite the low mesh count. A quick spray of garment film remover and stencil reclaims from screen leaving no residue.
Use a good quality opaque white ink, and mix well before attempting to print. Opaque Plastisol tends to thicken in tub, a gentle warming will get it flowing and mixing better.
Finally, to get a look more like garment vinyl, i use the waste backing paper from sign vinyl on top of printed garment in heat press at around 165 degrees with little to no pressure for around 40 seconds, peeling the paper from print hot. This ensures the print is cured, and also gives a really smooth finish to the finished garment. ;)

Keep at it, and one day soon you will get a feel for printing onto different surfaces, when I started screenprinting I used to get the jitters just thinking of starting a paying job. I now print anything more than six garments in preference to vinyl as its more rewarding and to be honest can be quicker and more profitable.

Matt
An old thread I know but.

Thats some great insights Matt. Thanks