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JMugs
07-10-2013, 11:18 PM
1981
Original
1982

Picture on left is with ICC picture on right is sawgrass and Ricoh

My apologies Paul, I have spent all this time trying to work out how to put an image in a PM. With no success!

Janners

pisquee
08-10-2013, 12:09 AM
Is the ICC on the left mine for our printer or one Paul has made specific to yours?
If the former, would be interested if you send me the original file, so I can see what difference printing it on ours makes - this could see if it is the ICC being too specific to our printer (these are old machines now, so maybe they don't print as much the same as they used to) or maybe your settings are wrong somewhere?

Paul
08-10-2013, 12:16 AM
i understand is icc i made.
here is soft proofed image with your icc profile. as you can see there is no where near as much magenta as on your prints.
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/ab58/5ol573jcs54yir56g.jpg

JMugs
08-10-2013, 09:11 AM
Morning Guys,
Hi Paul Tim sent over his profile from his own 7600 for me to look at how to install etc whilst you were doing mine for me.
The image on the left is Paul's profile, the one on the right is the Ricoh /Sawgrass set up.
BUT both profiles (Tim's own and the one done by Paul) produce identical images, hence my line of thinking that the profiles are correct and I have a setting wrong somewhere.

Prior to going over to sub inks I printed photo's with Epson inks and had beautiful photos. Hence we know the printer was OK.

Nozzle check is perfect, literally, no dashes missing anywhere.

When I get chance this morning I will try using PS CS6, (I don't use photoshop so this could be a challenge), with the settings provided, and see what happens.

Paul I have been using the the unisub guidelines of 90 seconds at 200 degrees, also which RGB Paul (sRGB1966-2.1 or Adobe RGB 1998)?

Thanks for your input guys.

Janners


Just a note ... there are two magentas in the printer Magenta and Light Magenta.

pisquee
08-10-2013, 09:42 AM
If both profiles are producing the same results it reassuring that the problem is with the colour management set up you have, so should be solvable. (Also, I can assure you that our printers don't have a magenta cast to them.)
You should use Adobe RGB (1998) rather than sRGB.

If you don't use photoshop, which program are you currently using to print with?

purpledragon
08-10-2013, 09:50 AM
HI
just to bung my tuppence worth in and it may not mean anything but you are wondering if you havent set something up right i dont know if you picked up on it but in the 2 images you have posted 1 is mirrored the other isnt theres a reasonable chance that you are not printing from a set up profile etc or havnt quite set it up right if you missed the mirror image tick box its very possible you missed something else ,
but then i could be totally wrong !!!

JMugs
08-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Purple
I suspect you are on the right line of thinking, I do think it is a check box somewhere that is causing the problem, the mirror image was just me not bothering.

Now to get my head around PS as both Paul and Pisquee are PS users where as I am coreldraw. The set up for the two is different. Wish me luck "Mis Amigos".

On a sad note..... I am finding all this rather interesting as I have learned so much so far about all sorts of things.... I am turning GEEK!


Janners.

pisquee
08-10-2013, 10:46 AM
Geek is good, is good to understand the tools you use in the job, how they work etc.

pisquee
08-10-2013, 10:52 AM
Last time I looked at CorelDraw, I just found the colour management page confusing, and I think gave up in the end!
Which version are you using?

JMugs
08-10-2013, 10:55 AM
Hi Pisquee
I am using the current one (X6) in coreldraw. I shall now dive into PS (can't be that hard, can it really.... reallly?). Follow your settings, and see what happens.
Geek ..... oh my giddy aunt.
Janners

pisquee
08-10-2013, 11:03 AM
The Sawgrass guide should walk you through setting things up in Corel
http://www.xprestechnical.co.uk/downloads/SJIQ-4015-WP-PSG-CD-X5-X6.pdf

JMugs
08-10-2013, 11:09 AM
Hi Pisquee
Thanks for that, I followed their video on You tube, and read that ... there are contradictions between the two!

I have opened photoshop .... it didn't bite .... I have also imported the image ... get me.

Janners

Paul
08-10-2013, 11:44 AM
Hi janners. As tim said, adobe rgb every time. In photoshop, if you set it exactly as in pdf you got from me, when you open photo you will be asked if you want to change from srgb to adobe rgb. Answer is : always YES! :)

i presume what happened the is double profiling. You icc profile but you colour menagment is still on.

pisquee
08-10-2013, 01:13 PM
magenta cast usually points to two profiles at the same time (or so I've read)

JMugs
08-10-2013, 02:03 PM
OK
Hi Paul I have managed to print the image through Photoshop. The colours are the other way now ie very strong and dark. So I won't press this!

My instinct is to step back to the beginning.

Your preferred route is photoshop, I can now find my around the settings in photoshop, so back to basics.
I'll make sure every thing is turned off etc
Print a set of charts off in Photoshop, send them to you, and produce a new profile.
This will identify if I left a profile check mark in place or "double Profiling" occurred when I printed the charts.

Update ......
Nearly there!!!!

Paul I suspect I left the profile for the printer on when I printed out the charts.

I have put the printer settings back to "Automatic". Before I was using "Custom" with all the settings that go with custom.

The image is now good. The colours are really quite close! Hence I am now wondering "How close they would be if I got it right my end?"

So looks like you have more business!

I'll do the charts through Photoshop, and see what happens here.

Incoming PM.

Janners

pisquee
08-10-2013, 03:23 PM
STOP
Don't do the charts in Photoshop!
Adobe have an app made specifically for printing colour charts for profile charts to ensure no colour management is going on (as long as it is turned off in the print driver)

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/no-color-management-option-missing.html

JMugs
08-10-2013, 03:40 PM
Just had a post disappear ... how odd.

Pisquee I see your point. I suspect I left the printer driver in "automatic" when I printed the charts rather then going into custom and turning everything off, which would throw the profile out. The reason I supect this is because if I print from photoshop with the printer driver left in automatic, the colours are pretty good, If I go into custom and set them up as you and Paul do... not so good.

Just had lunch and come back and looked at the image.... hmmm .... now that the plaque has cooled off completely.... I would say ........ hold on ...... we are sorted.

Now tempted to get Paul to do another one to see if we can pull it in even tighter....

Janners

Paul
08-10-2013, 05:38 PM
we can not :)

once your profile is done and good then this is best you can get.
i can do icc profile from few thousands color samples and this will increase gamut a little. but is very time consuming process.
you can only enhance your icc to be better one if you had blocked heads when printing charts. but once you print them right the profile is ok. I can also make it bit warmer for you or cooler.

pisquee
08-10-2013, 08:16 PM
Now with your setup being correct, do you see any difference in results if using Paul's profile compared to mine?

JMugs
08-10-2013, 09:35 PM
Pisquee, a task for tomorrow....

Paul, I have fiddled the settings to get a good image.
I leave the printer settings in automatic, not set up as per the PDF.

Hence, the thought of doing another one, but this time I get it right from the start.

Janners.

JMugs
08-10-2013, 10:44 PM
Summary of events.
In the cold light of evening the image is not right.

This is not Paul's fault, I have to say I believe it was mine. I am fairly sure now that I didn't turn off the colour profile in the printer when I printed the colour swatches for Paul. Hence wrong from the beginning.

So tomorrow morning back to basics
New swatch set printed (with profile off!) send them to Paul etc etc.

So what have I learned from this? Lots actually, including I am a numpty!

Janners