1%

[Earl Smith]

I know this might be a daft question but I have to be careful. Especially in Gerrmany.
A Biker group has asked me to print some t-shirts. In part of the image is the 1% logo. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25er ( German) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw_motorcycle_club ( English)
Is it legal to print this logo?

Earl.

[pisquee]

Looking briefly at the wiki page... although not something you've created, it is doesn't appear that at 1%ers have any official representation or body, and so it would then be unclear who would claim 'ownership' of the logo to be then able to pursue you legally for any royalties. If could be argued that if there is no 'official' merchandise already available with this logo on it, that you aren't stealing any business from another officially sanctioned supplier, and if the group making the request from you could be seen to be part of the 'organisation' that it is an 'official' request.
Is the logo something that the biker gangs, or presumably one of their members sat down and designed, or is it copied from another logo or signage that is completely unrelated - it almost looks like in the style of an official warning symbol for electrical or chemicals, in a european or even soviet style.

[RogerC]

If it is the 'Outlaw' biker group then I would have no problem printing it for them. However if is not you should consider they have a reputation for 'protecting' their 'patch'/'colours' and you might not like how they go about it.

[phoenixalpha]

I would steer clear of such a thing as this. Unless its something that is "officially" sanctioned with a cast iron guarantee I'd not do it. If memory serves there have been several "disputes" over the years between certain factions and logos so unless you knew the script, I'd err on the side of caution.

[GoonerGary]

I would supply them, but wouldn't put the design on your website.

They should sign a disclaimer saying that they own the copyright or have permission to use the image and authorise you to reproduce the image.

They are willing to wear the 1% logo on the threat of violence! Ask them to pay in advance ;)

[RogerC]

http://www.dw.de/german-police-target-criminal-biker-gangs/a-15912602

Check out the link and then say if you would supply.............the European guys don't mess about. Unless it is a genuine 'Outlaw' group then as I said before I would not be printing anything for anyone. These guys are more than capable of 'extracting' compensation (polite words for serious damage and pain) from those who misuse their 'colours'.

Pisquee your reply would be correct if it were a 'normal' situation but this is dealing with biker gangs who make a Friday night punch up look like a kids tea party. Basically the 'rules' don't apply............well they do but it's 'their' rules and you wouldn't want to argue. Basically if their 'colours' are stolen/misused then retribution will follow and it will be painful.

[GoonerGary]

Do you not think they would take a dim view if you refused to print their proud logo? Yes I would supply them.

However on second thoughts a stupid disclaimer on a bit of paper won't stop a sawn off shot gun, but would help in any legal action which Hells Angels do actually use.

[arko]

I think you are all blowing this out of proportion regarding the "fear" factor that such groups hold... if they dont hold the license.. nor anyone else... go for it Earl! No bull... I know a very good man in Dortmund Germany where I used to live that was also a member of a local chapter. He was a pub acquaintance shall we say,.... he knew of the "einprozentige", but I always had the feeling he was more than someone that just knew of them. Nicest, quietest bloke you ever could meet even at well over 6foot and built like a barn!. I bet the person who made his chaptors patches was loaded... he must have had about 40 of all shapes,sizes,colours etc.

[phoenixalpha]

As I said if the customer wants to confirm to you that they have the right to print it, get that in writing.

[Earl Smith]

Thanks for your views. I must admit, I got more than I bargined for in these replies.
I do a lot of work for bikers and never had a problem. The shop that I rent used to be ( not any more) owned by the local President of the Hells Angels. Bullet Proof glass in the windows as well. He and his girl friend used to run a funeral parlor from here.
The 1% logo is a very small part of the whole image which has nothing about Outlaws in it. I just wondered if it was against the law to print 1%. The Nazi Swastiker(?) is banned here for obvious reasons and I thought that maybe the 1% might fall into the same catagory.

[arko]

I still come back to this thread to see if it has been answered. I for one Earl, still cant find any hard info about it anywhere. An interesting topic and really would like to know now what the outcome will be.

[mrs maggot]

i live breathe and work within the biker community in the UK I would not print anything with 1% on it. I work with several of the biggest clubs in the UK and print things which I have permission to print, from them, all designs are signed off and agreed.

those that don't know about the biker community (biker not motorcyclists) cannot really understand how guarded this is - they will not consider ignorance as an excuse. pm me if you need to.

[Earl Smith]

Mrs Maggot,
Thanks for your info. I printed four t-shirts with this clubs logo on it. I had no idea about the 1% until my neighbour, who was married to a Hells Angel,
came in and I showed it to her. I was proud of my vectorised artwork and didnt give any importance to the 1%.
She pointed it out and thats why I started this thread.
As you can see from the image the 1% is a very small part.
I dont think I will do any more, even if its in writing, I dont need the trouble.
2396

[arko]

I will print them for you Earl and I will send them over... send them my address too incase of any comebacks... Im not scared of the big bad wolves! hahaha... oh jeez.... show me the copyright and I will show you the white flag! ;)

[Earl Smith]

Hi Arko,
We have in this region a massive biker following. Hells Angels, Banditos and the Outlaws. Plus countless other smaller groups. There are often problems and they keep the police nice and busy.
They are the nicest of people when you go to their meetings ( delivery and to take orders). But you never, ever, cross them.
One small group invites me to their breakfast meetings on the first sunday of every month. I get invited to their houses for coffee and cake. They help raise money for local childrens hospitals and the Trikers will take the sick children out on the back of the Trikes to see the smile on the kids faces.
BUT you never, ever, cross them.

[arko]

Do you really think I would do that?..... oh dear!... I wouldnt.... only because the postage would cost too much. Hahahah... just kidding again before the thread gets out of hand. Im just saying I wouldnt have a problem with it after talking to them. I think I would be more worried if I didnt do it and said NO to them!.... dont you?

[Earl Smith]

These are Germans Arko. You should know that when you say No to a German , and explain why, they will accept it. I have the same problem with Harley Davidson etc. I say no and they go away.

[arko]

Oh yes.... first hand!.... and then I married one!.... that was my downfall! ;)

[RogerC]

Mrs Maggot,
Thanks for your info. I printed four t-shirts with this clubs logo on it. I had no idea about the 1% until my neighbour, who was married to a Hells Angel,
came in and I showed it to her. I was proud of my vectorised artwork and didnt give any importance to the 1%.
She pointed it out and thats why I started this thread.
As you can see from the image the 1% is a very small part.
I dont think I will do any more, even if its in writing, I dont need the trouble.
2396

The 'club logo' as you call it is the 'Chapter Colours' and as has been said these groups are 'very very' protective of them.
As another poster has written...yes they are 'on the surface' generally very nice amiable guys. The do a great deal of charity fund raising amongst other things. My daughter knew a couple of them (Hells Angels) in Bristol some years back. I met one, he was a man mountain and in 'normal social circumstances' a gentle giant....he was well over 6 foot (185 cm)tall...weighed about 18 stone (115kg). He was brilliant with the kids my daughter was a nanny to in those days and a good friend to her. However cross him badly and he 'would' hospitalise you. Their 'club house' was a fortress.......steel doors, grilles on windows, security etc etc.

If, and I emphasise 'if' you can get explicit approval from the Chapter President you should be OK. However they are an 'Outlaw' gang...not being part of the Hells Angels organisation, which 'might' in itself bring about problems by association.

[arko]

Get a disguise Earl, deny all knowledge and plead the 5th.

[Earl Smith]

I think the point has been made....Dont do them....

[mrs maggot]

arko, at the moment Germany is having issues with bikers, and the police/authorities are responding as they are in Australia, I am not up to date with which MC's are genuine 1% over there and entitled to have the 1% on their clothes and which are not. over here club "support wear" will never show a 1% or even the MC or their emblem, it is completely separate wear. if they have a website and show their 1% then i would still question their use of it on support gear, as it will not go down well with other clubs (if they run the same way the UK clubs do). "outlaw clubs" and "outlaws" are not the same thing at all, it would take far too long to explain in full on here,again, MCC and MC if you are not sure stay away, and yes Earl, very wise to take the advice of neighbours, it tends to save on insurance payouts :rolleyes:

[arko]

Totally lost me there mrs.maggot. I think I will leave it there. Dont really want to make myself look stupid because I dont know what Im on about now do I ? Even so, like I said, I would still do it. I can be a nasty B@stard as well..... even though I am one of the nicest people you will ever meet, so I dont think they could show me anything I havent already seen if you know what I mean with you yourself coming from a biker background. :wink:

[RogerC]

Totally lost me there mrs.maggot. I think I will leave it there. Dont really want to make myself look stupid because I dont know what Im on about now do I ? Even so, like I said, I would still do it. I can be a nasty B@stard as well..... even though I am one of the nicest people you will ever meet, so I dont think they could show me anything I havent already seen if you know what I mean with you yourself coming from a biker background. :wink:

These guys are beyond nasty....for that read machine guns, bazookas, hand grenades etc. Look on Google and there's some real eye opener reports of 'Biker wars'.

Here is just one report...... www.thelocal.de/20120801/44087 (http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum/www.thelocal.de/20120801/44087)

[arko]

Ive seen reports like hese when I lived i Germany and they made the the hairs on my neck stand to attention.

[Frostee]

Roughly along the same lines buy in a different way but...

i was asked to do some clothes for a group going to Disney land. They wanted their text in Disney font with micky and minnies bodies on the boys/girls clothes and the Disney castle on the back. I said no given disneys track record and the fact theyd be taking the goods to them.

it always seems like a bit of a tough one. Especially in the above case. Surely the 'owners' of the 1% thing would be more peeved at the people who got them printed and used their logo in their design than the poor chap they paid to print them for them? Sure you could go beat up the printer but the customer could just get someone else to print them. If you beat up the guy whos getting them printed your gonna have much better luck at stopping anymore being made