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View Full Version : Photo realistic - WoW 7.7 or TTC



Gygafo
24-07-2014, 10:04 PM
I'm limited to the media in the title above but open to suggestions.

An artist friend of mine wants some of his motorcycle racing art putting on tee-shirts for his agent to sell at the super-bike championship races (rest of season and future if I get it right). His work is so good that it looks as though it's a photograph but it's all done by hand. I of course am in my infancy and are just getting used to WoW 7.7 and TTC of which is a breeze to use. My problem is nothing to do with colour (I'm a photographer and everything is calibrated) but more of opacity and understanding how it works when doing a print of a picture for a black or coloured tee-shirt etc. My first attempts look a washed out or lacking in contrast and I know it is probably me that is the problem! Some of you are doing this kind of work on a regular basis and know just what to do so could anyone recommend what settings to try in the Space Control or give me a little advice on where I may be going wrong please.

Ever so grateful!

Cheers!
Nigel.

ArferMo
25-07-2014, 12:38 AM
Isn't it WoW 7.2 Professional transfer paper enables full colour images, logos and photos onto dark garments and fabrics.

Gygafo
25-07-2014, 07:58 PM
Isn't it WoW 7.2 Professional transfer paper enables full colour images, logos and photos onto dark garments and fabrics.

Hi ArferMo,
I think there have been a few version upgrades since 7.2 and 7.5 - The process with 7.7 (apparently) is simpler and the media is easier to use. The TMT website needs upgrading too! :biggrin:

Ask_Alan
28-07-2014, 04:04 PM
to clear up the confusion
Wow 7.1 was updated to WoW 7.2 this product is for standard colour laser printers with black ink.

WoW 7.5 was updated to WoW7.7 this product is for the OKI C711WT with White toner in it and no black.

Currently only the 7.2 is available on the website and this is deliberate to stop owners of normal CMYK laser printers buying the 7.7 by mistake. This will change as we workout the best way to list both papers.

The website unfortunately can not stop people with inkjets buying TTC and other products in spite of warnings! Now add 7.7 to the mix where its limited in usage :(


Alan.

Gygafo
28-07-2014, 09:14 PM
to clear up the confusion
Wow 7.1 was updated to WoW 7.2 this product is for standard colour laser printers with black ink.

WoW 7.5 was updated to WoW7.7 this product is for the OKI C711WT with White toner in it and no black.

Currently only the 7.2 is available on the website and this is deliberate to stop owners of normal CMYK laser printers buying the 7.7 by mistake. This will change as we workout the best way to list both papers.

The website unfortunately can not stop people with inkjets buying TTC and other products in spite of warnings! Now add 7.7 to the mix where its limited in usage :(


Alan.

You learn something new every day, thanks for that Alan. I'm using the C711WT and never gave the standard colour laser a thought when looking at the different media versions. :redface:

Gygafo
01-08-2014, 08:25 PM
Still no suggestions as to how to get the best photo results. I know it's not going to be anything like a normal printed photograph but if anyone has suggestions as to optimal settings for space control or even a different media to use it would be much appreciated. I know... I'm a noob, but that's why I'm asking the question!

Ta
Nigel.

logobear
02-08-2014, 05:39 PM
You mention blacl/coloured T's - so ttc is not an option.
OBM 5.x is a great laser product, quality limited by what your printer can manage......
It only works for 'bounded' images, - so fine for a rectangular photo, but not a 'floating' design
WOW has nicest soft touch, but is a costly process, maybe £2 each, plus a £2k printer as oppose to obm for less, and a £400 printer.....
No answers, just questions, offer what you have, and see if they are happy?
I have 11 different garment decoration options, and would still like more!
Sell what you have!

Gygafo
02-08-2014, 07:35 PM
You mention blacl/coloured T's - so ttc is not an option.
OBM 5.x is a great laser product, quality limited by what your printer can manage......
It only works for 'bounded' images, - so fine for a rectangular photo, but not a 'floating' design
WOW has nicest soft touch, but is a costly process, maybe £2 each, plus a £2k printer as oppose to obm for less, and a £400 printer.....
No answers, just questions, offer what you have, and see if they are happy?
I have 11 different garment decoration options, and would still like more!
Sell what you have!

Hi Logobear,
Thanks for the advice, I like the idea of another (different) printer, vinyl cutter, and I'd love to try screen printing too! Ah well, maybe one day eh? At the moment I am on a really steep learning curve having invested £2k in a printer, Wow 7.7 and an Adkins press. my set-up is ideal for most jobs I am asked to do of which are on coloured or black tee's. The WoW process is a little tricky though! I mentioned TTC because it is a breeze to use on white and light pastel tee's, it's simple and brilliant. I think I'm happy with what I've got but I lack the experience to get the very best from it when it comes to photo images on black tee's of which people are asking me for on a regular basis but I have to tell them I don't do photo's just yet because I am not happy with the end result. So, I have a sample image ready for tomorrow and have decided to waste a dozen or so black tees and sheets of WoW-7.7 to experiment with the white setting in the printers Space Control software to see what works best (family are going out in order to avoid tantrums and bad language when things don't go as planned). I hate wasting money so... If you need some dusters let me know. :wink:

Cheers!
Nigel.

socialgiraffe
02-08-2014, 08:55 PM
Nigel

I am not sure that the Space Control is going to have that much effect on your results. It would be better to try various options in Photoshop (or similar), save them as and output them through Space Control.

Also, don't do them full size but A6 instead, you can get four on a sheet then.

Lastly, what is the problem with the process?

Below is what I do (bear in mind that I have a WOW pad and then a piece of release paper (for protection) below the i sheet)

2923

If it is the peeling then might be worth trying the following...

PRESS at 155 degrees for 50 Seconds

This means it is very hot which means it takes longer to peel apart but also can burn your hands!!!!, I use a heat protect glove on the left hand which I place on the isheet, then with my right (glove free) hand I peel the sheets (including teflon) apart. I have found that they split perfectly every time.

TMT probably can not tell you to up the temp to this as it would breach health and safety guidelines I think.

Gygafo
03-08-2014, 10:37 AM
Nigel

I am not sure that the Space Control is going to have that much effect on your results. It would be better to try various options in Photoshop (or similar), save them as and output them through Space Control.

Also, don't do them full size but A6 instead, you can get four on a sheet then.

Lastly, what is the problem with the process?

Below is what I do (bear in mind that I have a WOW pad and then a piece of release paper (for protection) below the i sheet)

2923

If it is the peeling then might be worth trying the following...

PRESS at 155 degrees for 50 Seconds

This means it is very hot which means it takes longer to peel apart but also can burn your hands!!!!, I use a heat protect glove on the left hand which I place on the isheet, then with my right (glove free) hand I peel the sheets (including teflon) apart. I have found that they split perfectly every time.

TMT probably can not tell you to up the temp to this as it would breach health and safety guidelines I think.

Hi socialgiraffe,
Thanks for the A6 tip, why didn't I think of that doh!. This may not be a problem but more of a - that is how they look issue. I'm too used to looking at high quality photographs, processed in Photoshop, and then printed on expensive white paper so when I see a picture printed on a black tee using WoW 7.7 it looks to me that shaded areas appear to lack contrast and look grey or faded. I was thinking that this was down to the white coverage being set too high (too much opacity). I'll have a play in Photoshop and Space Control, It's all experience.

Thanks also for the diagram too, WoW pad and teflon sheet is the method I use but minus the release paper.

The dreaded peel... I got some new media from a different batch as I was initially having problems but so far so good. I figured the peel by trial and error and notched the temperature up a few degrees at a time as I thought my temp reading may not be quite accurate. I got to 147 degrees for 60 seconds with a fair amount of pressure and seem to be getting consistent good result.

Just out of interest, I watched the American TMT video where they use 300 degrees F which is just short of 150 degrees C for 60 seconds.

Cheers!
Nigel.

Ask_Alan
04-08-2014, 09:48 AM
Photos, use OBM, its cheaper and easier then WoW. All you need is a craft knife and a straight edge to trim the white off the edge.

On the 150 / 140 temps at 150 you may get problems with adhesion between the I and the garment - run a damp cloth over the I before peeling off the garment.

alan

logobear
04-08-2014, 11:52 AM
WE press WOW at 137c and provided the garment is totally fully absolutely cold, then peel is easy from the garment.
Re the first peel, again at 137c - if you go much higher tiny parts of the print can fuse to the part 1 paper instead of transfereing to the part 2.
We keep an oversised A4 sheet of the oven guard specific for 1st press, and keep it top of the stack for the peel, can get warm fingers, but don't think increasing the temp is the answer.
As I mentioned, and Alan agreed, OBM is the product for photos on dark garments, easy to use, and cheaper than wow.
As mentioned, can use A6 sheets

Gygafo
05-08-2014, 08:50 PM
Photos, use OBM, its cheaper and easier then WoW. All you need is a craft knife and a straight edge to trim the white off the edge.

On the 150 / 140 temps at 150 you may get problems with adhesion between the I and the garment - run a damp cloth over the I before peeling off the garment.

alan

WE press WOW at 137c and provided the garment is totally fully absolutely cold, then peel is easy from the garment.
Re the first peel, again at 137c - if you go much higher tiny parts of the print can fuse to the part 1 paper instead of transfereing to the part 2.
We keep an oversised A4 sheet of the oven guard specific for 1st press, and keep it top of the stack for the peel, can get warm fingers, but don't think increasing the temp is the answer.
As I mentioned, and Alan agreed, OBM is the product for photos on dark garments, easy to use, and cheaper than wow.
As mentioned, can use A6 sheets

I spoke too soon in yesterday's post about getting the WoW 7.7 first peel down to a tee. Last week 143 degrees, 60 seconds gave me six transfers with no problem. I've not altered pressure. But, after the first couple of failed attempts tonight I upped the temp to 150 with no luck, brought it down to 140 still no luck. Just wasted seven or eight I & M sheets trying to get a result but without any success so have thrown in the towel. I'm not very happy at the moment with WoW 7.7 or the C711WT which is costing me another fortune in plain paper to keep it clean. "grumpy grumble".

Cheers!
Nigel

socialgiraffe
05-08-2014, 09:02 PM
I'm not very happy at the moment with WoW 7.7 or the C711WT which is costing me another fortune in plain paper to keep it clean. "grumpy grumble".

We have all been there mate, not necessarily with TMT or WOW, but digital print in general. However I will say that if you pop down to TMT's offices they will go through everything with you and let you spunk as much of their paper as you want until you get it right. That is something that can only be said of reputable suppliers and once you have mastered it you will realise that the purchase(s) you have made are well worth it.

Gygafo
05-08-2014, 09:33 PM
We have all been there mate, not necessarily with TMT or WOW, but digital print in general. However I will say that if you pop down to TMT's offices they will go through everything with you and let you spunk as much of their paper as you want until you get it right. That is something that can only be said of reputable suppliers and once you have mastered it you will realise that the purchase(s) you have made are well worth it.

Hi Socialgiraffe,
Cant really knock TMT as their service is and has been excellent, suppose I'm just upset at being incapable, stupid, or have some duff kit. I just cant get my head around being able to produce a cracking product with WOW one minute and a few days later it's all turned upside down and no settings have been changed! The print process is not an issue, the peel once the transfer has been applied isn't an issue either, It's the bloomin first peel of the M & I sheet... I'm totally lost!

I've been producing and selling digital photo prints for many years now and remember the real early days with dread, greens were blue, pinks were purple ha ha ha! Nowadays, everything is calibrated, profiled, and printed to a canon pro 1 printer (using original inks and pro media) and what I see on screen is what I get on paper. I cant ever remember that been process been as difficult or expensive as getting to grips with WoW 7.7 though!

Cheers
Nigel.

socialgiraffe
06-08-2014, 12:48 AM
It's the bloomin first peel of the M & I sheet

Don't get me wrong Nigel, I didn't think you were slating TMT, just saying that we have all been there mate. I also had problems with the first peel and hence why I now have my press very hot. I do not have the problems that Alan or Logo bear suggests which could be that my Adkins is not calibrated correctly.

But it might be worth loading your press into your car and trooping down to TMT for the day. They are very good and will go through everything just to make sure you have everything spot on.

Earl Smith
06-08-2014, 10:48 AM
Looking at the Magic Touch web site in Germany there are two types of OBM. The 5.3 and the 5.6. Which is the best one to buy for t-shirt printing?
Over to you Ask-Alan....

WePrintForYou
06-08-2014, 02:33 PM
The more and more I research this style of transfer the more I'm put off by it.

I took the trip to logobears about 6 months ago and it looks like a great deal of work.

Gygafo
06-08-2014, 08:29 PM
Don't get me wrong Nigel, I didn't think you were slating TMT, just saying that we have all been there mate. I also had problems with the first peel and hence why I now have my press very hot. I do not have the problems that Alan or Logo bear suggests which could be that my Adkins is not calibrated correctly.

But it might be worth loading your press into your car and trooping down to TMT for the day. They are very good and will go through everything just to make sure you have everything spot on.

Hi Socialgiraffe,
sounds like that might be a plan. However, I've tried (and wasted even more media) with the press at 150 and 155 degrees @ 50 seconds and also at 140 degrees @ 60 seconds - all with exactly the same results, small bits coming away during the peel. Can't say it's not enough pressure because I'm bending the table legs closing the press! The other thing that is really annoying and frustrating is that one minute it works great and the next it doesn't want to play at all. I'm getting proper miffed with the whole WoW process now so I'm going to do something that I haven't done for years... go to the pub for a couple of pints! Cheers mate!

Cheers
Nigel.

logobear
07-08-2014, 07:38 PM
Earl, type of obm depends on your printer

Gygafo
07-08-2014, 09:44 PM
Getting back to photographs (WoW is doing my head in).

I completed samples for a client yesterday for him to show his sale's agent at this weekends super-bike championship at Oulton Park this weekend, they have a massive stall and do a ton of business of which I obviously want a part of.

The artwork provided was a a very good quality 300dpi scan made by the clients printing company. After a few tweaks in Photoshop I printed the image at A4 along with an additional cutout of the artist's website address to place below the image. I applied both at the same time onto white tee-shirts. I also pressed the finished shirt's just for a second or so as I think think this really makes the TTC transfer pop and removes the tacky feel from the image! When the artist and his wife saw the samples last night they were over the moon! The next question they asked was "can you do this on black?" and like an idiot I said yes! However, looking at the online video's of OBM it looks like it could be a little too plastic for their or my liking. Is OBM ok?

Thanks
Nigel.

Ask_Alan
08-08-2014, 09:56 AM
OBM is a white sheet you print on, its very thin but you do feel it. needs cutting round.

OBM 5.6 works with any Laser toner type, OBM 5.3 only works with OKI toner. It will print with other makes but the wash is poor.

Advantages on OKI, better blacks and its cheaper ;)


Looking at the Magic Touch web site in Germany there are two types of OBM. The 5.3 and the 5.6. Which is the best one to buy for t-shirt printing?
Over to you Ask-Alan....

socialgiraffe
08-08-2014, 11:27 AM
The artwork provided was a a very good quality 300dpi scan made by the clients printing company. After a few tweaks in Photoshop I printed the image at A4 along with an additional cutout of the artist's website address to place below the image. I applied both at the same time onto white tee-shirts. I also pressed the finished shirt's just for a second or so as I think think this really makes the TTC transfer pop and removes the tacky feel from the image! When the artist and his wife saw the samples last night they were over the moon! The next question they asked was "can you do this on black?" and like an idiot I said yes! However, looking at the online video's of OBM it looks like it could be a little too plastic for their or my liking. Is OBM ok?

In my personal opinion there are only two ways of producing full colour photographic transfers for black garments.

Print and Cut application (such as a Versacam, Mimaki etc etc)
WOW paper or other papers that do the same (these are sold by TMT and XPRES among others).

PRINT and CUT
I have a versacam and it is probably the most popular way that I print garments due to how cheap it is. I even produce transfers for light garments on it as there is no wax feel from the non printed transfer area. It might be worth you speaking to either myself, RogerC or Jason (or anyone else that has a print n cut), who maybe willing to do a trade deal with you.

WOW
I have only ever used TMT's Wow paper and did have a problem at first but now it works a treat for me. Xpres also sell a similar product so it might be worth giving that a stab. Both companies are very reputable and no doubt would welcome you into their demo rooms with open arms.

Gygafo
08-08-2014, 07:08 PM
In my personal opinion there are only two ways of producing full colour photographic transfers for black garments.

Print and Cut application (such as a Versacam, Mimaki etc etc)
WOW paper or other papers that do the same (these are sold by TMT and XPRES among others).

PRINT and CUT
I have a versacam and it is probably the most popular way that I print garments due to how cheap it is. I even produce transfers for light garments on it as there is no wax feel from the non printed transfer area. It might be worth you speaking to either myself, RogerC or Jason (or anyone else that has a print n cut), who maybe willing to do a trade deal with you.

WOW
I have only ever used TMT's Wow paper and did have a problem at first but now it works a treat for me. Xpres also sell a similar product so it might be worth giving that a stab. Both companies are very reputable and no doubt would welcome you into their demo rooms with open arms.

Thanks Socialgiraffe, I'll do a bit of homework on versacam first and might just give you a shout if you don't mind.

I've spoken to the wonderfully patient tech guy's at TMT and emailed some pictures of the issue I am having for them to look at. I know it's early days but I really do have my heart set on using WoW because when it works it is easy to apply and the detail is stunning. My other problem is that I spent a small fortune on the C711WT printer so I'm going to stick it out another few weeks before I consider changing to something different.

I'll be putting an order in for some more TTC and I think I will try a pack of the OBM just for the experience of using it.

Cheers!
Nigel.

socialgiraffe
08-08-2014, 07:50 PM
using WoW because when it works

100% agree, it is by far the best transfer in terms of looks, feel etc Keep at it :-)

Chunk
26-08-2014, 12:13 AM
Hi Gygafo, did you manage to get it going on dark garments, I have left it a bit late to ask but I have a demo visit tomorrow from TMT to show me the Oki white printer, is there anything I should ask that you he guys with the printer would ask after having for a while. The appeal to me is for printing onto dark garments as with white garments we can normally push towards Sub printing.

Gygafo
26-08-2014, 08:17 PM
Hi Gygafo, did you manage to get it going on dark garments, I have left it a bit late to ask but I have a demo visit tomorrow from TMT to show me the Oki white printer, is there anything I should ask that you he guys with the printer would ask after having for a while. The appeal to me is for printing onto dark garments as with white garments we can normally push towards Sub printing.

Hi Chunk,
Sorry for the late reply mate but I've been away for a week and could only get access to the forum from my phone which was a real pain. In answer to your question... I had no end of problem with WoW up to the stage where I was pulling my hair out and ready to throw in the towel. I thought it was down to my technique. However, TMT are just amazing at customer service, and I mean AMAZING! My area sales manager Mark came to see me and to try my media for himself and he got virtually the same problem as me. We tried a few sheets from an older batch of media and they were near perfect compared to the new batch they had sent me previously. I'm just waiting for the arrival of another set of paper and I hope from there I will be well sorted. Obviously, this is new technology and will initially have it's high's and low's but encouragement from people like socialgirraffe and logobear have kept me determined to make it work. There is a plus side to this too. In my efforts to gain experience I bought some white tee-shirts and a box of TTC and did some samples for an artist who creates photo realistic paintings of some of the worlds leading motorcycle racers often at the teams request. He took the samples to his agent who loved the quality, we agreed a price (tons of margin) and I'm just waiting for the signed order (cash up front) for the first 200 shirts. My goal... to be able to provide the same quality and definition on black or coloured shirts. Hope you had a good demo, you wont go far wrong with TMT.

Earl Smith
27-08-2014, 10:20 AM
I bought the 5.3 OBM paper its a big saving on the WOW if the design can be cut out. Only problem is peeling the carrier from the print, its very fiddely. Worth looking at because of the saving.

WOW, once mastered is great but I often loose the first print because Im in too much of a hurry and the press is not warm enough or I forget to increase the pressure.

Dont give up, the WOW/OBM is a great system.

Gygafo
27-08-2014, 09:18 PM
I bought the 5.3 OBM paper its a big saving on the WOW if the design can be cut out. Only problem is peeling the carrier from the print, its very fiddely. Worth looking at because of the saving.

WOW, once mastered is great but I often loose the first print because Im in too much of a hurry and the press is not warm enough or I forget to increase the pressure.

Dont give up, the WOW/OBM is a great system.

Cheers Earl, I'm eager to try the OBM but don't see it as a replacement/alternative to WoW of which I hope will be sorted with the arrival of the new media that is on it's way to me. I think OBM will be great for the photography side of my business and I am thinking of buying the Graphtec cutting plotter from TMT once I've tried a sample sheet of the OBM just so I dont have to mess with manual cutting. I understand the plotter cutter will also work with TTC of which is just a brilliant product.

yfp234
30-09-2014, 02:21 PM
Hi guys
I'm new to the forum and also using WOW 7.7 paper from TMT..
have been reading your posts above and thought you might be able to help with something which is driving me mad..but i know has to be simple..unless i have a dud box of paper..!
1) So with the WOW 7.7 paper from TMT, do you need a mask for 7.7?

2) does their m-sheet have a logo or anything to identify it as the m-sheet?

been looking at other vids on you-tube and other papers I've seen being used, seem to have a logo to ID it as the m-sheet..with the TMT WOW 7.7 paper, when I open my box, the top half of paper features a yellow TMT logo, (and is therefore the i-sheet) there's a colour paper divider and the bottom half of paper has no logo or watermark..is the paper with no logo on it definitely the m-sheet then? and if so, do i use the face up side as it comes in the box?

I am so confused now and its so annoying as when TMT showed me the demo it seemed really clear..now wondering if i have a dud box of paper!
thanks in advance for your help!

Sarah

socialgiraffe
30-09-2014, 04:04 PM
1) So with the WOW 7.7 paper from TMT, do you need a mask for 7.7?

No, but can only be used with an OKI White Toner printer


he bottom half of paper has no logo or watermark..is the paper with no logo on it definitely the m-sheet then? and if so, do i use the face up side as it comes in the box?


It will still be the M sheet, although I think they have started to actually print that on the back. The side you use is the really smooth side.

You could have a dud box so I would advise contacting TMT technical support who will be able to help you.

Bear with it Sarah, it is a simple and excellent process :-)

logobear
30-09-2014, 05:37 PM
Yes, they have started printing the M sheet in red (so as to make it look a little like obm?)
You don't need to create masks with wow 7.7 using the 711w white printer, don't know if it can be used in any other way.
The process is a bit confusing at first, but once you get your head round it, it is straightforward and very useful.
contact their excellent tec support and they will sort you out!

Gygafo
30-09-2014, 07:58 PM
Bear with it Sarah, it is a simple and excellent process :-)


contact their excellent tec support and they will sort you out!

I got to agree with Socialgiraffe and Logobear Sarah, TMT are amazing at support and WoW is fantastic. I was having a bit of a tough time with WoW when I first started a few months ago and the area sales manager (wonderful guy) from TMT came to see me and sorted me out within a few hours. I stuck with it and after receiving some new paper I haven't looked back. However, I do love their TTC and OBM media, It's such a breeze to use and one of my clients thinks it proper magic!

yfp234
30-09-2014, 10:54 PM
Hi guys
Thanks so much for all the above..Will persevere..TMT have been pretty good so far, I just feel like such an idiot constantly bombarding them with questions..I'm going to go and visit them and get another demo in the bag - think that's the problem, there was so much to take in when they came to install that some of it disappeared in the ether..

Will also check with TMT about the box as half of it is definitely different to the top half.

I know I just need to practice and get some time in but sometimes when your head is about to explode you just need the lowdown from those who know! So thanks again guys.
No doubt we'll meet again on here..

socialgiraffe
01-10-2014, 10:41 AM
TMT have been pretty good so far, I just feel like such an idiot constantly bombarding them with questions..I'm going to go and visit them and get another demo in the bag

Trust me, I take the award for customer idiot so do not worry about it ;-)

Always worth visiting, not only do you get to see the whole range of items you can print on, but you "waste" their paper and not yours :-)