listawood and bms [Archive] - DSF - The Dye Sublimation Forum

Justin

24-07-2010, 09:59 PM

My own personal opinion......

I only really started using BMS when the DSF started but have nothing but praise for Martin and his company.

Listawood on the other hand I have serious reservations. Had dealings with them in my last company and they were fine. We were ordering in large quantities though. I bought a Rotech CIS from them years ago and never got a decent print out of it. Support at that time was shocking and I gave up. The system collected dust on top of the cupboard. Not sure why I didn't pursue this further, I think it was a lack of time as much as anything.

I recently ordered a couple of boxes of mugs from Listawood as I needed the exact size they offer for a particular job. You may have read about my ongoing problems with these mugs on another post here so I won't go into too much detail now. Needless to say I've had problems and thus far the support hasn't been to my satisfaction. I believe there is a problem with the mugs/coating that have been supplied and have pretty much proved this but need to have more tests carried out. I'll update the other post accordingly.

For the record, Transfer Press also give me a great service. I have always dealt with Xpres as well, their tech support used to be second to none but since a few folk left that I knew well I havn't found it so good. I only buy a few bits form them that I can't get elsewhere.

jennywren

24-07-2010, 10:00 PM

Mine was a small order from listawood and even though they sent the wrong items the next day out came the right order and took back the items at no extra charge. Bms got their order right first time but if they had got it wrong they would have done the same, it was the level of helpfulness that I truly like from both of them. Mistakes happens. Its when they don't help that drives me crazy. made a few mistakes in my service but have always tried to put it right that way I hope not to lose a customer which in this climate any good company will do.

jennywren

24-07-2010, 10:45 PM

Sorry I only wanted to say how I found these companies that I used for the first time performed, I used the suppliers list that is up for us to see, being there is it looks like they are being recommended, I have tried to use one of the suppliers on that list, but found that the first converstion with them did not fill me with hope, so I went elsewhere. Someone else might have had a great service of them. I might have caught them on a bad day but I won't go back. The last thing I wanted was for lisawood or any supplier to get bad reviews, I just wanted to say how I found them to be. If we wrote about a member of the forum poor service all hell would break loose, I would understand if someone was selling sublimation supplies that took your money and sent nothing, or the equipment was unsafe then I would post a warning. I only want to say how pleased I was with their service. Won't be doing that again.

Justin

24-07-2010, 10:53 PM

Sorry Jennywren, I hadn't realised you didn't want other members feedback :( I do think it's important to get a good balanced view. We'll all have different experiences with suppliers, some good, some bad.

Suppliers that are members of the DSF appreciate that comments will (and have) been made about the service and products they offer. You can't please all the folk all of the time but it quickly becomes apparant that a company are willing to try.

Sorry if we took your thread off in a direction you didn't want. It's good to have entries like yours in the reviews section. If you want a thread locking so that further comments can't be added just let me know.

Ian M

25-07-2010, 01:46 AM

Sorry Jennywren,

I have to echo what Justin says & hope you will forgive me as I had no intention to offend you.

I believe in good customer service at all times & if I feel it has been lacking I go elsewhere with my money.

Any business always make every single customer feel like they are the most important person around. I do this all the time & it seems to work as a lot of my business is repeat work & I get a lot of new customers via word of mouth.

It amazes me how many people taking your hard earned money can't even be bothered to say please or thank you anymore.

So, please except my apologies as I had no intention to offend you or anyone else.

Ian :(

Paul

25-07-2010, 11:43 AM

Sorry Jennywren, I hadn't realised you didn't want other members feedback :( I do think it's important to get a good balanced view. We'll all have different experiences with suppliers, some good, some bad.
with respect justin... Last time when I posted link to new supplier and posted my comment you deleted that in 5 min :?:

Suppliers that are members of the DSF appreciate that comments will (and have) been made about the service and products they offer. You can't please all the folk all of the time but it quickly becomes apparant that a company are willing to try.
I bet they do ;) this is pure free advert for them. but what do we have fro that???

Sorry if we took your thread off in a direction you didn't want. It's good to have entries like yours in the reviews section. If you want a thread locking so that further comments can't be added just let me know.
:idea: :idea: :idea:

I think is enough of that kind of trads on this forum. I am not big fan of favorite one supplier all the time. I understand there r some good suppliers out there but no one say anything bad ish about them... why? r they perfect???? I bed they not ;)

Iam sorry guys for this bitter post but I did not find this tread as feedback... :(

jennywren

25-07-2010, 12:13 PM

Maybe there sould be two sections one for good reviews and the poor reviews that way it will be balanced. Its not that I did'nt want feed back or to promote these companies,( just to say I was pleased) (not start a debate about how crap they are) If there had been a section for a service for a poor service I maybe have written my thoughts on the supplier that I was'nt happy with, and the good reviews would have reflected the other side. We could invite the supplies to defend the feedback and maybe put right what is wrong, and to say thank you when they get it right. This forum has a lot of influence as its grown and it is number one where people come for advice and where to shop, so maybe a two teir system is now required for feed back.
I only really started using BMS when the DSF started but have nothing but praise for Martin and his company. If I had replied that I had a poor service for them at least Bms is on the forum to defend it. Most of the supplers are not. Bms also can say thank you when good comments are placed. I would like to say this forum is the best and would be lost with out it. So I would like to say a BIG thank you :D

Justin

25-07-2010, 01:38 PM

@Paul - Please remind me what the link was and more importantly what your comments were, I would have had a good reason for doing this :) I have no problem with members discussing suppliers providing all comments made are factual as as such can be backed up. My own comments regarding Listawood are from personal experience and I am aware that many people continue to buy form them and have nothing but praise.

@ jennywren - Please note that the list of suppliers is their as a reference, we are not recommending any supplier merely creating a list. When I started the forum (and also more recently) all of the companies on this list were contacted and given the opportunity to join so that they would be able to respond to such comments and also gain from using the Forum. To date, the vast majority of these suppliers haven’t even responded to my emails. The forum is run independently from any supplier so that members are free to comment on good/bad service they provide. Unfortunately it's usually the case that people only comment when something goes wrong so it's nice to hear comments like yours when things go right :)
I agree that we need to look at supplier reviews/comments etc. in more detail and welcome any ideas/feedback.

Justin

25-07-2010, 01:40 PM

I would like to say this forum is the best and would be lost with out it. So I would like to say a BIG thank you :D

Thank you jennywren, I work hard on the forum and appreciate all feedback ;)

Justin

25-07-2010, 01:49 PM

Suppliers that are members of the DSF appreciate that comments will (and have) been made about the service and products they offer. You can't please all the folk all of the time but it quickly becomes apparant that a company are willing to try.
I bet they do ;) this is pure free advert for them. but what do we have fro that???

The biggest benefit from having suppliers as members of the forum is that they bring a vast range of experience and valuable advice. BMS in particular spend a lot of time helping people on the forum. I'm sure that suppliers have gained business through being members of the DSF but have no problem with this providing they are supplying a high level of customer service and product quality. I continue to ask that any member suppliers on the forum consider looking at discounts/benefits for other members only and we have recently seen a few such offers come through.

Paul

25-07-2010, 05:26 PM

@Paul - Please remind me what the link was and more importantly what your comments were, I would have had a good reason for doing this I have no problem with members discussing suppliers providing all comments made are factual as as such can be backed up. My own comments regarding Listawood are from personal experience and I am aware that many people continue to buy form them and have nothing but praise.

it was in supplier section... I added new link and said I recomend them as they have cheaper vinyl then others but is very good quality. also I said they got rapid email customer service and very good service on phone. also I said P&P was cheaper then other suppliers,
any thing wrong with that????

The biggest benefit from having suppliers as members of the forum is that they bring a vast range of experience and valuable advice. BMS in particular spend a lot of time helping people on the forum. I'm sure that suppliers have gained business through being members of the DSF but have no problem with this providing they are supplying a high level of customer service and product quality. I continue to ask that any member suppliers on the forum consider looking at discounts/benefits for other members only and we have recently seen a few such offers come through.

there is no doubt that BMS is great source of knolage and spent lot of time on here helping people. I love when I see martin answering all that questions etc.... but I thought it is as it should be ?! Coz as far I remember it was part of the deal to have suppliers on this forum.
regards discounts and benefits for forum members I must say its next to nothing compare possibility of advertisment here. Sorry guys I think it must be said. lets dont forget that why we r here not on "old" forum.
rest of my consens on MSN Justin. as I think we need to work on few things here quick...

jennywren wrote:
I would like to say this forum is the best and would be lost with out it. So I would like to say a BIG thank you
Thank you jennywren, I work hard on the forum and appreciate
...

Justin

25-07-2010, 05:35 PM

Not sure why I would have removed this Paul, I would have given you a valid reason for doing so, I honestly cannot rememeber this. As you know, I encourage any new suppliers to be put onto the list.

There was certainly never any deal made with any suppliers. I accepted any supplier as a member and indeed encouraged it but not so that they could get any free advertising. If they choose to recommend products that their companies supply we have no problem with this. As long as every thread made doesn't blatently advertise their company. We looked at advertising to cover running costs and came to the conclusion that the majority of members would not accept this.

We've had many discussions over charging suppliers to use the forum as well as membership fees for all DSF members but have always come to the conclusion that this would not be a good direction to go in.
Whilst we have a great mix of members, from begginer through to experienced I believe that the suppliers on-board provide a great deal of help, do we really want to stop suppliers joining the forum? Maybe this is the way forward but as always and wherever possible I run the forum based upon feedback from members not necessarily on my own personal opinions (Maybe this is where I'm going wrong?!)

The reasons for setting up this forum were not because the 'old' forum was controlled by a single supplier. The initial reason was to give members somewhere to go whulst the old forum was sorted out. As that forum never came back to life the DSF has gained in popularity, it was never mean't as a replacement, just a stop gap.

If you need to PM or email Paul, please feel free to do so. I'm always open to discussions on making the DSF a better place to be.

:)

Paul

25-07-2010, 05:47 PM

Not sure why I would have removed this Paul, I would have given you a valid reason for doing so, I honestly cannot rememeber this. As you know, I encourage any new suppliers to be put onto the list.
oh nooo Justin. you misunderstud me :) you keept the link. you just deleted my coment about haw good they r :)

There was certainly never any deal made with any suppliers.
sorry. I did not mean official deal :) it was kind aggrement betwen us when we had that conversation about payed advertising etc... sorry for stiring..

The reasons for setting up this forum were not because the 'old' forum was controlled by a single supplier.

tru. but favorising only one supplier on forum means this same for me :)

rest on PM or email ;)

Justin

25-07-2010, 05:56 PM

As mentioned, all dye-sub suppliers were invited to the forum. Of the handful to respond only a couple have made any real effort to actually help out by offering good advise. I don't have any favourites and continue to buy from several suppliers including those that didn't respond to my emails.

We need to look at this in more detail and look for solutions. I don't think this is the thread to do it in, my appologies again to jennywren as this thread has moved into an area I'm sure you didn't want it to :(

Paul

25-07-2010, 05:57 PM

lets clean it :|

Andrew

25-07-2010, 05:58 PM

Been away for a week and looks like I missed the fun.

In all fairness, I don't think Listawood are that concerned on the small blank orders as they concentrate more on their Promo printing side.

As for this forum, all seems to be ticking along well and growing so well done Justin. Discounts will never be substantial unless it's worthwhile for a supplier and with the small margins and limited members here, I don't see much changing. There's a decent atmosphere here which is the most important thing to make it grow.

Justin

25-07-2010, 06:02 PM

Thanks Andrew ;) Some good points there. You do have to look from the suppliers side as well, I'm sure they're margins are pretty tight at the best of times so giving support on the forum I believe is a good trade off.

Ian M

25-07-2010, 07:30 PM

I'm so sorry for what I have caused here. I feel very bad about all this now & I'm now wondering if it might be best if I just don't say anything again.

I think the forum is brilliant & I feel like you are amongst good friends with lots of advice & help. I for one love a lively debate as at the end you can look at all what has been said & then decide if you agree or disagree with others.

One thing that has blown me away in the dye sub world is how friendly most people are & also how much help & advice they offer to each other.

Ian :oops: :(

Justin

25-07-2010, 07:36 PM

I'm so sorry for what I have caused here. I feel very bad about all this now & I'm now wondering if it might be best if I just don't say anything again.

Ian :oops: :(

No! Nothing to feel bad about, I myself posted an early reply as I thought the initial post encouraged a discussion/debate. It's certainly opened up some good discussions and we have a few things to sort out.

Ian M

25-07-2010, 07:40 PM

Thanks Justin ;)

John G

25-07-2010, 08:30 PM

The forum seems fine to me too! Justin's doing a good job and I don't think any mods or decision makers are needed yet as it would turn out to be too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

One change I would make, and i've said this before, would be to make it a paid for forum - this would sort out any revenue needed to pay for hosting, exhibitions etc. Donations work for now but if you do want to attract new members, from individuals to large companies, I think you're going to have to get out there and show them what they are missing. A stand at a trade show would do this but would cost a lot more money than the donations would cover.

One other thing I would do is a FAQ section that is posted near the top of the forum - new members are joining steadily and a lot of the time the same questions are asked over and over again. The ricoh questions have all been answered a few times along with syringing, bubbles, using standard ink to print mugs, which paper, which ink, image fading, best mugs etc. A FAQ list would be first port of call in emergencies, it could also include step by step tutorials on different methods of sub printing - then if help was still needed - do a post.

Just my two peneth worth.

accdave

25-07-2010, 08:40 PM

One other thing I would do is a FAQ section that is posted near the top of the forum - new members are joining steadily and a lot of the time the same questions are asked over and over again. The ricoh questions have all been answered a few times along with syringing, bubbles, using standard ink to print mugs, which paper, which ink, image fading, best mugs etc. A FAQ list would be first port of call in emergencies, it could also include step by step tutorials on different methods of sub printing - then if help was still needed - do a post..

I agree, although the size of the task means we all need to chip in.

Another big task, and I'm not sure how it would work is to have an A-Z of products and who supplies them. Maybe this could be down to each supplier to add themselves to each product. As much as 'How do I do that' is a repetittive subject the question of 'Where to buy' seems to be cropping up with more regularity.

Justin

25-07-2010, 08:47 PM

Great feedback guys, many thanks. Paid membership is something that I havn't discounted completely. Of course it would be great to keep the forum free but costs are starting to creep up and to progress further forward I'll need a regular, all be it small income to cover such costs.

FAQ section would be great, I'll set some time aside to trawl through and make a list. Anyone else wants to help here I'd appreciate it. Yes, many of the same problems do get asked quite regularly.

A-Z is something I hadn't thought about, a list of blanks available again would be very useful.

How to's and Guides etc. have been on the list for some time but I simply havn't had time to get around to it.

Thanks again :D

John G

25-07-2010, 09:36 PM

Hi Justin, A times and temps list for different items such as t 'shirts, hi viz, mugs etc would be very handy too!

Keep up the good work - John

bms

25-07-2010, 10:22 PM

there is no doubt that BMS is great source of knolage and spent lot of time on here helping people. I love when I see martin answering all that questions etc.... but I thought it is as it should be ?! Coz as far I remember it was part of the deal to have suppliers on this forum.
regards discounts and benefits for forum members I must say its next to nothing compare possibility of advertisment here.

Just going to make a couple of quick comments:
1. Re "suppliers on this forum" - implying the plural of suppliers. There have been several suppliers posting on this forum for the benefit of others but I appreciate that we've been the most prolific given the number of posts made. If the feeling is that we jump in too quick which stiffles other suppliers then let us know and we'll hold back with our comments/ posts, but that may not be to the general advantage of other users if posts aren't commented on swiftly or offers of advice made. Happy to hear comments on this (pm if you prefer).
2. Not sure of any "deal". We were invited to the forum as Justin mentioned and have made an explicit link from our website to the forum to promote the DSF plus spend a lot of time reading and commenting. Yes, we probably benefit from this, but equally from the kind words of other users who use us as one of their suppliers.
3. Re the discounts and benefits - we have posted some. Admitedly we don't do this weekly or regularly, but I've purposely not done this as there haven't been too many other suppliers posting. I didn't want it to appear as a "BMS offers section" and blatenly appear to be promoting our products which it could easily become. Coupled with that we don't have over inflated prices to offer great promotions. If we put our prices up then we could appear to offer some great "DSF only" promotions, but this would be to the disadvantage of all our other customers. It's a fine line to tread.

If there are some concerns/ friction, as I sense there may be in the thread, then please feel free to contact me directly. My first priority on here has been to help and to grow the forum, not to push BMS down forum members throats. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind an open and frank debate, but I guess that probably 90% of members just want good, fair advice and probably aren't that interested in the politics that is implicit in any forum. If there is some tension somewhere then I hope this can be discussed and resolved amicably. Please take this in a good hearted manner as I'd like it to be taken - I'm not ranting ;)

pressfx

25-07-2010, 11:31 PM

Hi Martin, just a quicky after your essay....I personally dont think you are jumping in too quick or ramming your products down anyone's throat. What you are doing is giving good sound advise to people when they really need it. The last thing I would want to do after posting a problem is wait for hours or even days for a reply! lol
So in a nutshell as far as I'm concerned and I'm pretty sure others are too...keep up the good work ;)

jennywren

26-07-2010, 12:10 AM

Just want to say I have no concerns for Bsm about jumping into quick, when I had to ask it is very nice to go and find a answer at the end of the day. I really don't care who's answered it but graful for the answer. I had concerns in the very begining but now with a few other suppliers answering questions it is becoming a fairer and broader forum. Plus there is a list of other supplirers It was never my intention to take this debate to where it is. I simply pick two suppliers of the list and recived a good service. I spent very little, but bms and listawood spent ages on the phone trying to help thats why I wanted to say thank you. Time helping was more important to them than the small amounts that I spent. I know that maybe they hope I'll be back to spend more later but thats the name of the game for all of us.
I also like the repeated questions because different people that answer the question put in a different way and then I get the answer :oops: So while I'm here I would like to thank everyone that ask question and those that replied. It what makes this forum.

JSR

26-07-2010, 01:03 AM

I spent very little, but bms and listawood spent ages on the phone trying to help thats why I wanted to say thank you.
I'm late to this thread but it surprised me to read of the bad experiences with Listawood and the perception that they only want big customers.

I'm certainly not a big customer of Listawood, but I only have praise for their service. They're prompt to reply to emails and to solve issues.

In March, I ordered 12 of their 10.5" ceramic plates together with other items. They were poorly packed and 8 of them were broken or smashed. After emailing them, they apologised and sent 8 replacements immediately. The replacements were packed the same and all 8 were smashed. I emailed again, and (unfortunately) ranted on a bit about what I thought of their packing department. :oops: They couldn't apologise enough and sent out 8 more replacements - this time they were better packed.

For what little money Listawood make out of me, they couldn't do enough to rush out replacements and apologise. They may not have the biggest range in the world, but they make up for it with the customer service that I've received.

This isn't to take anything away from any other supplier, I'm just adding my bit to the discussion.

smartarts

26-07-2010, 08:37 AM

I am fairly new to this forum as we are thinking of going in to sublimation printing, but by what I have read so far on this forum I say PLEASE change nothing. Over the short time I have been logging on I have learnt a lot, sadly probably at other peoples mistakes, I think the reason Martin at BMS has more posts than most is that with his knowledge base and contacts he has a lot of the answers. Furthermore he seems more than willing to share that knowledge, I have no axe to grind with any of the suppliers and have enough intelligent to know when somebody is just promoting their own products. So PLEASE stop bitching and enjoy what you have a b***** good forum.