Very poor quality image with a new CISS Is it Normal

Hi guys,

I just set up new CISS with sublimation ink for my Epson Sylus Photo 1500w and I was shocked by the poor quality of the images.

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum...tid=3849&stc=1







http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum...tid=3850&stc=1
(I don't know if it get clear from the photo the poor quality of the print... I attach the original file to compare with)


I don't know if the ink is wrong, the paper or the printer.
I know that the images printed on sublimation paper are lighter but the one I got is VERY POOR.

The same printer prints perfect images with no branded CISS ink on Epson photo paper.

Would you please advise if the image I got should look like this or something in the system is wrong.

I don't want to transfer onto sublimation item yet because I have limited quantity of them and I want to be sure everything is OK before I do it.

My sublimation ink (dye) is not branded - from eBay (but advertised as a High Quality one- ha ha)
The paper has been bought from UK Cutter and it is not branded too. I know for the fact they sell lots of chines stuff and I don't know the origin of the paper.
I haven't use ISS profile for this prints.


Also, is there any cheap materials or items I can purchase to make test transfers onto them.
As I said i don't want to waste my expensive "for sublimation" items.

Thanks a lot
Ayra

Hi Ayra

Looks to me like you have been the subject of very poor quality inks and paper, i deal with the Chinese inks and I know how many bad ones are out there also paper. As rule of thumb the best paper is made by Coldenhove Cham is another good one I know good Chinese inks but can't say anything Id suggest you contact Sensient they are not selling at a price you get from Sawgrass and the quality is excellent.

Profile should be fine

Tony

Hi Ayra

For a start, The image will be lighter before you press it on to the subject, CISS is not a favorite of mine, I could never get it to work, In my opinion there is only one way truly to sublimate, and that is a Ricoh with saw grass inks. Also you say that you have not used an ICC , why not? You need an ICC so the printer knows the colours to mix. By the way i'm no expert i have only been doing sublimation for around 2 years, what i know has been learnt by trial and error and reading the forum.

My advice is, buy a Ricoh, with saw grass inks, ditch the Epson, and the chinese inks, you will never get the consistency

Regards
Peter

Hi Tony,

Thank you for the advice
what i found is a Switzerland company with that name.
Do they have UK representative.

and they have not Light Cyan and Light Magenta for Epson Stylus series
http://www.elvajet.com/sensientinkje...cartridges.pdf

do you think I can purchase the one for R series or for Claria series.
Plus.... I don't see the prides.
How do you purchase from them?

Regards
A

Hi Peter,

First, How you have never get it work.... the system never had started work or the images you printed with the CISS had appeared not good...?
Because i have made it work - it prints. But i don't know what light means - how light the image should be.
I don't know anything about Ricoh with saw grass inks .... I will make a research. What is this glass inks - are they the same as the sublimation inks.... Sorry is you find my question stupid, but i have never use Ricoh.

Plus.... I would prefer to try to make the system I have to work before I purchase new printer.

Also I have no any Icc profile.
Where from can I download any.

Regards
Ayra

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ayra

Hi Peter,

First, How you have never get it work.... the system never had started work or the images you printed with it CISS are not good...?
Because i have made it work - it prints. But i don't know what light means - how light the image should be.
I don't know anything about Ricoh with saw grass inks .... I will make a research. What is this glass inks - are they the same as the sublimation inks.... Sorry is you find my question stupid, but i have never use Ricoh.

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Hi Ayra

The image that a printed sublimated image will always look let's say ......... dull, until you heat it up. that is normal and the pro's in here will tell you the same.

When i had an epson ciss, it was OK at first, but once you leave it standing, the heads in the printer will get blocked, you will get air in the lines, they were my problems, in the end it went out the window.

Look for Richo printer with saw grass inks, there are suppliers on here that sell them together.

Peter

Thanks Peter

I will try to find any of those Ricoh with saw grass inks

RegardsAyra

Hi Ayra ..what epson printer do you have ? ...Did you try to print these to any substrate ??.......I don't agree with Richo All the time option as Epson do quite well too ..... But it all depend on the quality of the ink , printer model may be printer profiles etc.....

Sorry my bad you have a great printer so if you have good ink it cant go bad....Print them and see the quality 1st ....

Hi Ravisteam,
The printer is Epson Stylus Photo 1500w.
I am pretty sure the printer make excellent prints, because up till now I have used it for printing photos.
It work perfectly with Epson papers.

I blame either the paper either the ink, ..... but most likely it is me.
After the failure withe the sublimation print I put back the normal ink CISS and I expected that it will make perfect print after 1 or 2 full color pages, but it appeared the prints was stripy and poor. Obviously lots of the nuzzles have been blocked.
I spent hour and a half to clean it.

Maybe I haven't fill up the sublimation system properly and an air has blocked the nuzzles.

I just ordered cleaning cartridges and after they arrived I will try again.
I want to be sure that if I block the head (the nuzzles) again I will be able to do deep cleaning with cleaning liquid.

Till then I will make better research about the paper and ink.

Ayra

I use an epson 1500w, with a Ciss and I do my own ICC, the printer is excellent. You will not know how it prints until you actually press the images, you will need an ICC.

If you go down the route you have, it will reward you, but you need to spend money on an ICC or the equipment to do your own, you need to spend money on test printing, to establish times and temperatures for every product you will be printing on. If you want to maximise your print quality you will have different iCCs for different substrates. If you change paper or ink suppliers you need new iCCs.

Rest assured the 1500w is a very good printer, the ciss will work very well.

Janners

Thank you Janners,

I am happy to spend money and time to do or purchase ICC but I don't know where from.
I have done my own ICC with Adobe Color Management (I think) long time ago, but I could see the result immediately and judge if it is good or not. It is different here because whatever come out from the printer is not what would be at the end....

But you are right I have to find my own way to do it on the products I plan to transfer on.

I wanted to be sure I am going on the right direction and I have the right ink and paper.
Because it could appears at the end that I have I spent so much time and money but because of a small detail at the beginning of the chain all other efforts are bound to fail.

Ayra

I would have recommended a known and readily available ink source (eg sublinova) and the same for paper (jetstream, trupix etc), then you know the basics are good. Profile wise is "Paul" on here.

Janners

Thanks Janners

I will try them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cvgpeter

Hi Ayra

For a start, The image will be lighter before you press it on to the subject, CISS is not a favorite of mine, I could never get it to work, In my opinion there is only one way truly to sublimate, and that is a Ricoh with saw grass inks.

My advice is, buy a Ricoh, with saw grass inks, ditch the Epson, and the chinese inks, you will never get the consistency

Regards
Peter

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you are having a giraffe m8 :rolleyes:..did you see my post on here with 3, yes 3 ricoh 3110's sitting here in office, all with crappy banding issues sitting doing bugger all.
where as, my epsons, well, they are the true work horses of this industry...and i get consistency not a problem at all :wink:

photo quality images, no banding and we using CISS systems with NO BOTHER at all....all maintained regularly.

recommend ricohs and rip off sawgrass inks ONLY if you starting out - and even then, personally, i would take 3/6 months and learn how to fit and maintain ciss systems, where to source better quality sub inks/papers from, buy £200-300 worth of stock and sit and practice how to sublimate perfectly, all the products i wanted to sell to make profit from....

i did this yrs ago when i started out myself.....how i learn? trial and error/practice, reading a hell of a lot on here, and youtube..and also used every one of the £300 of stock i bought "just" to practice on......you can check my post on here from way back..

we started out from the very beginning using BROTHER 5910's then onto BROTHER 6510 printers, and very successfully to...
but they took a pounding with the sublimation inks, and after couple of yr, were starting to show there age, so moved to epsons..
then took a daft notion to try these RICOH printers every one was banging on about - WORST DECISION EVER !! £200 wasted, unless we can figure out how to cure the banding ....but, apparently, RICOH KNOW this is a problem with these printers, and doing bugger all about it.

but...
each to there own in this business...you live and learn.
sometimes the easy way, mostly the hard way :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigj2552

you are having a giraffe m8 :rolleyes:..did you see my post on here with 3, yes 3 ricoh 3110's sitting here in office, all with crappy banding issues sitting doing bugger all.
where as, my epsons, well, they are the true work horses of this industry...and i get consistency not a problem at all :wink:

photo quality images, no banding and we using CISS systems with NO BOTHER at all....all maintained regularly.

recommend ricohs and rip off sawgrass inks ONLY if you starting out - and even then, personally, i would take 3/6 months and learn how to fit and maintain ciss systems, where to source better quality sub inks/papers from, buy £200-300 worth of stock and sit and practice how to sublimate perfectly, all the products i wanted to sell to make profit from....

i did this yrs ago when i started out myself.....how i learn? trial and error/practice, reading a hell of a lot on here, and youtube..and also used every one of the £300 of stock i bought "just" to practice on......you can check my post on here from way back..

we started out from the very beginning using BROTHER 5910's then onto BROTHER 6510 printers, and very successfully to...
but they took a pounding with the sublimation inks, and after couple of yr, were starting to show there age, so moved to epsons..
then took a daft notion to try these RICOH printers every one was banging on about - WORST DECISION EVER !! £200 wasted, unless we can figure out how to cure the banding ....but, apparently, RICOH KNOW this is a problem with these printers, and doing bugger all about it.

but...
each to there own in this business...you live and learn.
sometimes the easy way, mostly the hard way :wink:

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Exactly we all have our own way of doing things. All I was saying is that the richo seems to be the popular choice of Printers for sublimation. It works well for me and others on here. For standard printing we use the Epson work station no faults high picture quality. But for subbing Epson just wouldn't work

Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cvgpeter

Exactly we all have our own way of doing things. All I was saying is that the richo seems to be the popular choice of Printers for sublimation. It works well for me and others on here. For standard printing we use the Epson work station no faults high picture quality. But for subbing Epson just wouldn't work

Peter

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why would they not work ? please enlighten me further ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cvgpeter

......But for subbing Epson just wouldn't work

Peter

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bigi2552 mentioned in a previous post that he has 3 working Epson (2 of them with CISS and sublimation ink) and 2 not working Ricohs.
You claim the opposite.
What "But for subbing Epson just wouldn't work" manse

I am looking for the truth and I see there are lots of view points.:frown:

We've always used Epson Stylus Pro model printers, with InkTec's sublinova ink, a mix of Coldenhove and Inktec papers, and our own ICC profiling.
They've never let us down, and we would not be tempted away from Epson to Ricoh, and avoid Sawgrass at all costs!

I love Epsons too ...1500W is a great printer and works well with CISS...So your Epson is a great option 6 colours and A3 ..I hear some CISS can be buggy and you can get banding .1st of all make sure your printer head is working properly (I normally buy normal carts and check the head if its good then I know either my CISS or Ink is not good )....If you think the head is blocked check some you-tube videos for DIY solutions ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravisteam

I love Epsons too ...1500W is a great printer and works well with CISS...So your Epson is a great option 6 colours and A3 ..I hear some CISS can be buggy and you can get banding .1st of all make sure your printer head is working properly (I normally buy normal carts and check the head if its good then I know either my CISS or Ink is not good )....If you think the head is blocked check some you-tube videos for DIY solutions ...

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90% of the problems with CISS is with AIR in the system...

you MUST prime these systems (carts) BEFORE you put it in the machine.
you dont prime first, you not gonna get it working right period !
also check hoses/tubes for pin holes, yes pin holes !!!

all the epsons we have had over the yrs we been in this game, never had any with the major banding issus that the 3 ricoh's have sitting here - NEVER.

one machine, one would say...ok, you will get the odd bad apple, so to speak...two machines with same fault, you start to think...on no, cant be can it ?...and finally, when you buy another 3rd machine, and its the same as the 1st two, you then come to the sad conclusion that would have been better spending that £200 you spent buying these dam things, getting rat assed down the pub :rolleyes:

so if you all on here can say "ricoh" the best printer for sublimation" can tell me why we got 3 brand new sealed in the boxes duffers ? as i said before...RICOH know about this and are still selling the bloody things....
go research guy n girls on the net and it will be apparent the banding issues with these printers

as with any machine, maintenance is the key here as well to longevity of printers. thats why our wee epson wf3520's, have lasted us, and still going ( just ), after 2 yr of heavy sublimation pounding...and we still got our original brother printers, and yes, they still print with sub ink...we just dont get the deeper reds, blacks as we do with the epson 1500, or even with the epson 3520's, so they are used only for office work, flyers, invoices etc ( with dye inks )

but bare in mind, all these epson and ricohs etc, they were not built to have the thicker sub inks flowing though them...so it obviously gonna take its toll on them - eventually :wink:

you all have a great day :tongue:

and what ink have you inserted the buddy? cheapest you could find or sublijet?

I think you're being a 'tad' unfair on the Ricoh printers BigJ. For you to get 3 faulty ones would possibly bring in to question other common denominators. In the past the Ricoh had history for banding sure but there are many many unit sat out there working perfectly well and have been a godsend for many starting out with little or no experience.

If you buy the Ricoh from a supported supplier then you get the 2 year warranty inspite of it being used for sublimation, this is taken over from Ricoh by that Supplier. Whilst we're all quick to point out how expensive SGi ink is, how much time have you personally wasted on these 3 printers? 5, 10, 25 hours? What's your hourly rate, £25, £30, £50 maybe? It soon starts to become evident that for users who need the support you have to look at the whole picture.

I have a 3110 sitting happily working away with very cheap inks so yes it can be done.

You mentioned the Epsons/Ricohs not being built for thicker inks. The Ricoh is a Gelprinter, specifically designed for thicker ink, therfore you need a carefully formulated thicker ink to work with them. As Paul asks, what ink are you using?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

I think you're being a 'tad' unfair on the Ricoh printers BigJ. For you to get 3 faulty ones would possibly bring in to question other common denominators. In the past the Ricoh had history for banding sure but there are many many unit sat out there working perfectly well and have been a godsend for many starting out with little or no experience.

If you buy the Ricoh from a supported supplier then you get the 2 year warranty inspite of it being used for sublimation, this is taken over from Ricoh by that Supplier. Whilst we're all quick to point out how expensive SGi ink is, how much time have you personally wasted on these 3 printers? 5, 10, 25 hours? What's your hourly rate, £25, £30, £50 maybe? It soon starts to become evident that for users who need the support you have to look at the whole picture.

I have a 3110 sitting happily working away with very cheap inks so yes it can be done.

You mentioned the Epsons/Ricohs not being built for thicker inks. The Ricoh is a Gelprinter, specifically designed for thicker ink, therfore you need a carefully formulated thicker ink to work with them. As Paul asks, what ink are you using?

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you know fine well what inks i,m using justin. they ARE GEL INKS, just not from the rip off sawgrass

and as you know, ricohs can also run perfectly well on ORDINARY sub inks ( not gel ) i have few friends who have them and no problems :rolleyes: why i decided to buy them tbh.
i,m very happy for you that you have ONE thats working perfectly m8, really am.
that still leaves me with THREE brand new ricoh 3110's that are so bad banding issues, they cant be used for anything.....

and as i said before, ricoh STILL have a history with banding on these machines, even with there own stupidly expensive, over priced inks installed.
a quick search on google will reveal a lot of pi$$ed of people...
but...
yes there are many with min probs and are happy ( the lucky ones ) so.....have i just been that unlucky to get 3 duffers in a row ?

or....could it just be the actual "gel inks" are not in fact gel inks ? ok, that could be an issue but....we been using sublinova inks for yrs, and others have used them in the ricohs with great success = no banding....
so where does that leaves me - with 3 ricohs that cant be used for anything....tip they are going m8 if we cant get solution to the banding :rolleyes:
super head cleaning only wastes a shed load of ink, with no results - so if ANYONE has any options/opinions as to what the probs may be with THREE ricoh 3110's we would be very grateful - either that tip they go, and write it off as another lesson:rolleyes:

OK, I don't think we're helping the OP much here but just a note, you DO NEED thicker inks in the 3110, normal sublimation inks don't work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

OK, I don't think we're helping the OP much here but just a note, you DO NEED thicker inks in the 3110, normal sublimation inks don't work.

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ok, ok...for the novice/beginner/OP here....you need the expensive sawgrass inks.....but for the rest of us who like to dabble in the dark side of sublimation, normal sub inks do work, but at your own pearl :tongue:

i like the dark side...can be expensive,frustrating, but bloody great when it works lol :wink:

No, I'm not saying you need expensive inks. I'm saying normal sublimation inks don't work in the 3110. I think that's what your problem is BigJ. You DO NEED thicker ink for a Gelprinter.

If it's expensive on the 'dark side' as you call it why waste your time? Just buy off the shelf and get the support, you'll save all that time and won'#t be any worse off! Just sounds like your making life a lot harder for yourself :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

No, I'm not saying you need expensive inks. I'm saying normal sublimation inks don't work in the 3110. I think that's what your problem is BigJ. You DO NEED thicker ink for a Gelprinter.

If it's expensive on the 'dark side' as you call it why waste your time? Just buy off the shelf and get the support, you'll save all that time and won'#t be any worse off! Just sounds like your making life a lot harder for yourself :-)

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the dark side is only expensive if it dont work...as with anything tech related...its a gamble when trying something out with the norm.
only reason i,m cheesed off is....thats £200 could have been spent down the pub with the boys lol :tongue:

Or £200 spent getting a working printer that will make you far more money to spend down the pub! I'm all for trying new things and working out better/cheaper routes but surely the main reason for us all doing this is to make money, if your system isn't working you're making nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin

Or £200 spent getting a working printer that will make you far more money to spend down the pub! I'm all for trying new things and working out better/cheaper routes but surely the main reason for us all doing this is to make money, if your system isn't working you're making nothing.

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didnt say the system aint working....this was a gamble i took, and they were cheap @ £65 ea

i did get another one - the epson 1500w :tongue:
and the way this thing performs/print quality, it will make more sense to get another one of the same tbh, instead of messing about with other printers...
but...
if i can get the wee ricohs to work then....

as you know justin, this aint my main business bud - i started this 4 yrs ago to see if i could do it....and it just went from there...i actually like doing it..
it gives us spare money to buy other things , and i like the buzz when myself/girls make new things and fire em up for sale

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/55639195.jpg



just a quick thing... if you have 3 useless printers here that are brand new. why not return them? stick genuine carts in and off they go back to the shop! simples!

ps. Pisque tried standard inks and it didn't work with ricoh. they use more pressure to force ink through the nozzles so thicker ink is needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/55639195.jpg



just a quick thing... if you have 3 useless printers here that are brand new. why not return them? stick genuine carts in and off they go back to the shop! simples!

ps. Pisque tried standard inks and it didn't work with ricoh. they use more pressure to force ink through the nozzles so thicker ink is needed.

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you getting a bezczelny ol cholera in your older age lad lol. :tongue:

cant return them as supplier know i try/used sub inks in them.
got suggestion from justin, so trying that to see how it goes

I did have a thread that was going to show the set up of a Ricoh with Sublinova, but the thread was deleted. If the thread hadn't been, and I had been able to finish it, there would have been photos showing how badly the Ricoh printed with Sublinova - the prints either had not enough ink in places, or were blotchy in others - not an effect I have seen printers do before. Banding wasn't an issue, but certainly ink flowing wrongly through the system was. That is where the experiment stopped really, I couldn't get it to print well enough to get to the stage of creating an ICC for Sublinova on Ricoh printers.
Maybe I had a dud printer, and others have been successful doing this, but I wasn't going to put any more time into it, especially as the thread detailing the experiment had already been deleted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigj2552

you getting a bezczelny ol cholera in your older age lad lol. :

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What do you mean "old age" cheeky! :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pisquee

I did have a thread that was going to show the set up of a Ricoh with Sublinova, but the thread was deleted. If the thread hadn't been, and I had been able to finish it, there would have been photos showing how badly the Ricoh printed with Sublinova - the prints either had not enough ink in places, or were blotchy in others - not an effect I have seen printers do before. Banding wasn't an issue, but certainly ink flowing wrongly through the system was. That is where the experiment stopped really, I couldn't get it to print well enough to get to the stage of creating an ICC for Sublinova on Ricoh printers.
Maybe I had a dud printer, and others have been successful doing this, but I wasn't going to put any more time into it, especially as the thread detailing the experiment had already been deleted.

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i think it was deleted at the time because of the sawgrass rubbish....now they are out the game, well.....

you could have saved my £200 if i had seen that post...all that beer money sitting here in 3 white boxes o metal :rolleyes:

got to laugh when you say "Maybe I had a dud printer"..what your one and my three....

anyway, getting some other inks though in post in 3/4 days...it was recommended to me as top quality stuff eps for the ricoh.
so...
will try that on one printer first.....if it works, then tickety boo.....will decommission the other 2 epson 3520's, but still em in the cupboard, just in case i need em, then get the 3 ricoh's all working....thats the plan, but it rarely work out .
and the epson 1500w is working as expected..superb !!

if the new inks dont do anything for these ricoh, off to the tip they are going, and will get another 1500 in there place - should have just done that in the first bloody place tbh :rolleyes:

Yes, it was due to Sawgrass that it was deleted (or as far as I remember, their dealers, or maybe one in particular), which was a shame and ironic, as if it had been let to run its course, it would have shown in Sawgrass' favour that you could only use their inks. So either Sawgrass or their dealer(s) assumed that it was going to work.
That printer is sat out in our warehouse, not been used since, wonder if it still works?!

I use an old 3300n its working great and for me I don't mind paying for the sawgrass carts because it delivers consistently with the trupix paper, my thought on it are, instead of saving a few pennies per print, add value to charge a few more pounds! and there is nothing worse than downtime do perform maintenance or cleaning!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vynmarius

I use an old 3300n its working great and for me I don't mind paying for the sawgrass carts because it delivers consistently with the trupix paper, my thought on it are, instead of saving a few pennies per print, add value to charge a few more pounds! and there is nothing worse than downtime do perform maintenance or cleaning!

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no down time here bud.....to many printers for back up ensure no down time period !
and it nothing at all about saving any pennies either....read my other posts my friend and all will be very clear

as i keep saying...i can get photo quality results with the epson 1500, and even the 3520's gave near same photo results.
people often ask WHY ? why all the printers....if any go tits up, or need maintenance, we always have others to take there place - apart from these horrible little white things sitting here smiling at me :mad:..for the moment.

right paul..share the popcorn m8 :tongue:

I use this printer for sublimation. Had lots of problems with the colour blue printing purple etc. I got a colour profile and everything is good now.

SUBLINOVA is for epson heads only the ricoh ink is much thicker than the Epson ink, viscosity is roughlt 3.5 times epson inks, I have been developing my own ricoh inks and have a new batch due soon to further increase the quality. Its not just the viscosity there are different binding agents and secret stuff in the gel based inks too ;). Ive had the OEM ink analysed and im nearly there ;).