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Sublimation has served us well but at times we find it hard to compete selling to retailers who are getting higher quality prints on mugs that we cannot match always. What process (and thus equipment) would be required to provide the type of print upon this mug here?
http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server36...0.1280.jpg?c=2
Scary!! I have been pondering this very same thing this afternoon. I was planning on looking at waterslide decals first.
At this stage it is fair to say I have no idea!
Janners
I got as far as this link
http://www.ceramicdesigns.co.uk/print_processes.html
It is a ceramic waterside decal as already mentioned. You can either get the printer with ceramic toner and correct papers or outsource the printed sheets which there are a few companies offering this. Next problem is the oven which needs to be getting past 700c. There are hobby furnaces about to trial and bench top ovens that can do this but as it also takes time compared to sublimation 6ou would need a larger kiln if it were for producing wholesale batches.
Good morning Andrew. Thank you for this information. Do I presume that mugs for retail would use this more hardcore method than the waterside inkjet decals you can print and apply cold? It seems you can buy packs of water slide paper which you spray after printing and submerge in cold water before sliding on.
The waterslide material you can purchase from places like TMT are not dishwasher safe and will peel. They are not designed for merchandise where you need a better adhesion, a varnish and then a kiln to fire them in afterwards.
Thank you. This is most helpful.
Kilns aren't as expensive as I thought.....uh oh.....
The issue is not the kiln though. Last time I looked I did find a digital water slide system but you still need to screen print the varnish after printing. Also, adding waterslides to a mug is an art to master!!!!
However I do think there is mileage in things like dog bowls where you can add a pets name and then varnish over the decal and clearly state that the item is not dishwasher proof (who uses a dishwasher for a dog bowl!).
I watched a few video's last night and did that "they make that look easy.......bet it's not!" with some of the decal placement. Also the the screen print varnish operators where all wearing breathing equipment.
We are just getting frustrated with high priced sublimation blanks and that mugs like the one attached here seem to be SO much better than one can do on a big production scale in sublimation (and consistent colours). So, this mug (see link) would be done via printer with ceramic inks onto transfer paper, sprayed to keep waterproof, placed on mug and then cooked in kiln still?
http://www.ulsterweavers.com/media/c...8/r/8rlf65.jpg
Had a dig back, this was the company I looked at. If I remember correctly the printer was about £2500, Kiln £2000, then add any other bits that may be needed. I know I decided £7500 would allow set up and the proverbial wastage whilst learning.
http://www.digitalceramics.com/secti...FdUy0wodRjkPKQ
Quick edit....that was a lick the finger and see which way the wind blows way of establishing set up cost!
Great link so thank you. They do leasing options as well. We will certainly look into this as demand for our ceramics grow.
Tempted to start another thread called "how come a small piece of plastic from unisub called a double sided keyring costs over £1 to buy?!". Surely 15p should be more than enough damn it.
No, that one looks like it is screen printed, which you will never be able to compete with, particularly on large scale runs. Screen print mugs are around the 30-40 mark, ink is naff all and if printed by a company like Listawood then the set up time is nominal meaning you could easily sell this mug at about 80p on a large bulk deal and be earning decent profit.Quote:
We are just getting frustrated with high priced sublimation blanks and that mugs like the one attached here seem to be SO much better than one can do on a big production scale in sublimation (and consistent colours). So, this mug (see link) would be done via printer with ceramic inks onto transfer paper, sprayed to keep waterproof, placed on mug and then cooked in kiln still?
http://www.ulsterweavers.com/media/c...8/r/8rlf65.jpg
The one previously was a water slide I think
You may need to negotiate with your suppliers for a better rate on your mugs to get a better deal, or cut your profit down...
Thank you again. May your reputation increase :biggrin:
That Ulster weavers mug you can get a Balmoral mug to get a similar result. Whilst you can get close to the handle you couldn't achieve what they do by waterside as they cut the transfer around handle. Full top to bottom can be done on a Balmoral though and you can actually achieve a better result on clarity and colours etc.
We are looking to outsource our mugs later this year in reasonable quantities, far too many to produce via sublimation. On spending many hours surfing we are looking to this company to manufacture our range of ceramics and glass, They come recommended from a couple of designers that we know so we will give them a try once the house move is completed.
http://heraldicpottery.co.uk/#/finebonechinamugs/
Yes, we have people who have recommended heraldic pottery as well and in fact are going to approach them next week about work. Great minds!
You could also try Listawood and Prince William Pottery, both very good printers.
I use -ceramic digital printing - they are water side and need to be fired to approx 780 in an electric kiln. hope this helps..
I just fired some water slide decals onto some white china teacups. All came out fine, easier than I thought. Would be very interested in finding out about buying the ceramic toner printers. Never seen one come up on the used market.
This thread has got even more interesting. Could you perhaps give a brief run down of your current set-up?
I am based in stoke - follow this link - this guy is the best around..
http://www.printceramic.com/
Hope this helps..
Indeed it does. With only sublimation knowledge (and currently hit a brick wall as clients are asking for prints onto substrates not possible in presses) then is the water decal process similar in that you print using special toner onto special paper, wrap around substrate (wet) and then fire for a period of time? Also, the cost of a top quality mug (say European from BMS), paper (say trupix) and ink (say sawgrass) then probably looking around £1.40 without labour. Is the costs of water slide a lot cheaper?
I bought the decals from a company I found online, they print A4 or A3 sheets to order when you e mail the designs to them. Price breaks for quantities but I just ordered one sheet to test them. The cups I bought a joblot on E bay for about 16p each including delivery! I am a hobby potter/craft teacher rather than a printer business but play around with sublimation as well. I fired them in my trusty old kiln to 800 degrees on a rapid fire schedule, it was only about 4.5 hours I think - if you were to go the decal route pick up a used kiln before investing in a new one. They always sell on pretty quickly if you upgrade, as you will only be doing one type of firing you could manage without a digital controller and manually control the kiln, which would be a cheaper way to start off.
Hi, My setup is: digital printer using ceramic toner - print onto waterside paper - then cover coat the paper using a laminator - once laminated - soak paper in warm water - side decal off backing paper and place onto item ( ceramic ) - then fire in a electric kiln to 780.. the guy in the link will do all this for you - we are for to busy at the moment..
Thank you to both of you. We are really frustrated with the cost of sublimation substrates and although sublimation offers more long lasting prints onto ceramic we are asked by clients for printing onto items such as tea pots and jugs. We hold little knowledge but thanks to you both we shall slowly start to look into water slide decals and kilns. Always happy to trade advice and suppliers we use in exchange. Olly
Hi Olly, No problem - I have had a manufacturing unit in stoke for 30 year - have all the contacts and info - if you ever need help pm me..
That's super and very kind so thank you. If you're dipping your toes into sublimation and needing equipment/substrates then certainly pay £10 to become premium member as lots of suppliers on here give 10% off for DSF members. You'll get your money back on your first order no doubt!
Thanks for offer - all sorted thank you..
I need to pay you a visit Weston ;-)
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any more advice please on printing 2 colours onto a black gloss mug?
thanks