how do you compete??

so some of you know i'm a pretty small business that mainly does keycutting and stuff but started getting into the whole dye sub stuff.

I bought a whole stack of different things like phone cases, keyrings, mousepads etc. and started printing some designs them and selling them on my site at what i thought was a reasonable price if i cost up the time, materials, consumables etc.

But then i go and do some research to see how much other people charge and i don't understand how it's possible.

for example just looking at this site http://www.egoprints.co.uk/iPhone-6Plus

how can you sell a keyring or phone case at £4.99 if the item costs like £1/£1.20, £0.50 for paper/ink etc and then I noticed on top of that free delivery! i mean are we supposed to be aiming to make like 50p an order?

Most places are charging like £9.99 up to like £13.99 depending on the design so just don't understand how guys like this can afford to sell so cheap

Gonna investigate a bit more to see how this is possible but seems hard to compete if there are sites like this around...

Peter

Add to that their 20% discount on all phone cases and it looks even worse!

I wouldn't put too much stock in what other people sell their items for. They may work on very high volume, very low margins, or may not even have a clue how to price their products and will eventually end up out of business (as happens to many on ebay).

Just do your sums and stick to your best prices.

Sadly this just highlights the gulf between traditional face to face retail and online selling. It is a fact of life that is hear to stay.

There is no guarantee that the cheapest of online sellers are even turning over any volume. There are thousands of 'micro entrepreneurs' happy to sit at the dining room table of an evening running a tax free home business. Its a bit like the clowns who spend thousands of pounds on fishing equipment to catch £50 worth of barely edible bottom feeders - it makes no commercial sense but it is their hobby. Its all about the thrill of the chase.

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Originally Posted by webtrekker

Add to that their 20% discount on all phone cases and it looks even worse!

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Originally Posted by webtrekker

Add to that their 20% discount on all phone cases and it looks even worse!

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No way I didn't even see that - that's just ridiculous.

I just think it's a bit crazy how low people can sell stuff for. Been too busy today at the shop but I'm going to research into this business and other ones tonight. i'm pretty old school and something just doesn't add up for me on this.

Peter

Hobbyists and none genuine busineses and clowns I hate seeing a race to the bottom but even some big companies do it to keep their machines and staff busy at times of low orders. I've seen some rubbish work at low price and high so I'd say service and quality are the differentiators in business, sadly the clowns can also give an industry a bad rep from poor work too. Being a number game it can have stupidly low margins if your prepared to work that way but ultimately you want customers who appreciate workmanship and quality not the cheapest price. A rare fish but they are out there.

You shouldn't overly worry about competitors and pricing. There are many different business models out there and you just need to workout how you fit in. Adding value to your service or product will help keep the price up.

Also, blanks and print costs are able to be done far cheaper than you mention. I regularly sell phone cases far cheaper than that. Last couple of orders have been around 1.50 plus vat. I make plenty on that as we are talking hundreds on a run. The only difference then is time if you are doing individual designs but I know there are substantial margins there. It would mean creating a process where you automate as much as possible via software and equipment. Problem is that most have to dip in and out with different products and print methods so that is the hardest part in justifying investment in the above.

I might add that 'design' can make all the difference. There are literally thousands of people producing sublimated products with an uploaded photo slapped on them. I don't do any user-supplied photo work myself, all of my images being designed by myself. Also, 90% of my designs are personalised. These features enable me to command a higher profit margin as the designs cannot be obtained elsewhere (barring certain unscrupulous copiers whose name shall not be mentioned!).

YOU WON'T BLOODY BELIEVE THIS - I actually hope I'm wrong about this otherwise i'm gonna be properly pissed.

So didn't end up getting a chance to do this last night but checked this morning who the websites that are selling super cheap are registered to...

now this is where it gets interesting...i've attached a screen grab of the that ego prints one - look who the bloomin owner is - karl brydges!! now i might be an idiot but i swear to god that's chris from subliblanks brother????!

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum...tid=4883&stc=1


so wait a minute i'm buying my blanks from subliblanks at whatever price and then he's supplying his brother to set a ridiculously low price with discounts, free delivery and all that and compete with us - probably getting it all at cost price no doubt??!!

someone please correct me if i'm wrong but this stinks to high heaven...suppliers eh!?

Peter

It happens with other suppliers. Many of the smaller blanks suppliers started out with a printing background. Some are open about doing this thing and some are not. If it is their own artwork and not directly stealing then it personally doesn't bother me. If they are doing what Longforte are possibly doing then they deserve a slating.

I buy stock from suppliers in UK then also quite a bit from China. It would then be a bit of a cheek for me personally to complain obout a supplier playing both sides of the fence as i am doing that with my buying. Understand why it annoys others though. From a different point of view and not knowing the details, if i had a family member doing well on one thing and had a chance to piggy back whilst not affecting them, I would have a go if it suited both ways. Hard to know the involvement SB has in the printing side. If they were ripping off their customers designs so they didn't have to do any work and then directly taking their sales then they deserve what is coming to them..... Which is hopefully failure.

Well spotted by the way.

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Originally Posted by phoeniximages

YOU WON'T BLOODY BELIEVE THIS - I actually hope I'm wrong about this otherwise i'm gonna be properly pissed.

So didn't end up getting a chance to do this last night but checked this morning who the websites that are selling super cheap are registered to...

now this is where it gets interesting...i've attached a screen grab of the that ego prints one - look who the bloomin owner is - karl brydges!! now i might be an idiot but i swear to god that's chris from subliblanks brother????!

http://www.dyesubforum.co.uk/vbforum...tid=4883&stc=1


so wait a minute i'm buying my blanks from subliblanks at whatever price and then he's supplying his brother to set a ridiculously low price with discounts, free delivery and all that and compete with us - probably getting it all at cost price no doubt??!!

someone please correct me if i'm wrong but this stinks to high heaven...suppliers eh!?

Peter

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Same surname, similar postcode, similar business.

https://www.whois.com/whois/subliblanks.com

https://www.whois.com/whois/egoprints.co.uk

Great John Ruskin quote:
“There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person’s lawful prey. It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can’t be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

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Originally Posted by logobear

Great John Ruskin quote:
“There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person’s lawful prey. It’s unwise to pay too much, but it’s worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can’t be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

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My local market fruit and veg man summed it up quiet nicely when he ordered some good quality aprons from me with his logo embroidered on them. " Buying cheap is always more expensive in the end". I wish all my customers thought that way....

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Originally Posted by GoonerGary

Same surname, similar postcode, similar business.

https://www.whois.com/whois/subliblanks.com

https://www.whois.com/whois/egoprints.co.uk

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i told chris from subliblank to shove his business and products many months ago, because he kept changing the goal posts regrading stock , and delivery times, but this is another thing altogether .

loneforte are still at it on amazon driving prices down on "some" of our best sellers....really makes me wonder "why" these people do this, as the margins are slim anyhoo, and to keep bringing prices down to obviously stupid levels, make no business sense what so ever, other than to shaft the other guy selling on same listing, so he piss's off, then they raise prices....great business ideology in practical terms, but piss poor as most of the other sellers he prob sells trade stuff to ( not me may i add )

again, WHY would any company bringing in decent cash from there "trade" sublimation business, be even bothered with a price war on £2.95 flippin wood coasters beggars belief, as longforte is with us, and other sellers on amazon at the moment - stupid a$$ :rolleyes:

This scenario just serves to reinforce my philosophy that selling most sublimation products on online marketplaces is a waste of time. If you want to earn get your coat on and go out and sell, use the internet to generate leads through social media etc. Too many sellers pushing down prices. Its gonna get tougher before it gets better

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Originally Posted by bigj2552

i told chris from subliblank to shove his business and products many months ago, because he kept changing the goal posts regrading stock , and delivery times, but this is another thing altogether .

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i personally buy my stuff from all the suppliers apart from subliblanks as they strung a lot of us out to dry last xmas when they took money for orders, ran out of stock, then told us weeks later before going on holiday they were out of stock. yeah cheers mate.

the guys at bms, longforte and so on have always been really good to me. i pick up the phone, they deal with me like gentlemen and always have the stock when i need it and have saved my a$$ more than once with emergency deliveries.

On top of all that nonsense, more investigating into this i've found out that karl (chris's brother from subliblanks) also has a sublimation blanks website being set up no doubt in partnership with his brother so that they can compete with us even more. you can see it here: http://gosublimation.co.uk/.

i've never felt i am competing against a supplier but coupled with their bad attitude, lack of response and now this new discovery subliblanks is way worse in my eyes than anyone else.

Peter

I buy my smash proof boxes from subliblanks...they are really smart looking, clean white finish and strong. But based on what you said I should look for a back up.

The simple answer is 'you don't'. Just do your own thing and let the minimalist margin/crap product guys go their own way.