DTF Printing Discussion and new machines

So DTF has been around for some time now (Maybe I should create a section for this?)

Every man and his dog seem to have had a go and entered the market as a fulfilment provider. We've tried a few with varying results.

I've always been on the fence with DTF. As a screen printing fan for many years I still don't see it replacing the technology. But, before anyone berates me I fully understand the benefits and do believe as it progresses and improves it may well continue to take the lions share of the market.

We've just returned from this years FESPA and obviously every Chinese supplier is making machines now, smaller and smaller to fit into workshops.

In time I can see every small printer will have one in-house. At the moment the race to get your business means some suppliers are charging as little as £5 per metre (busy fools maybe?) On average it seem £10-£15 p/m seems to be the going rate. At the moment then, it's not really worth buying the equipment as it can so easily be contracted out.

However, I see Ink Experts have their small DTF machine on pre-order at a somewhat sensible price. Is this the start of the in-house revolution?

Sure, we all know the machines have to work daily but if you have regular business and need a quick, small quantity turnaround this could be ideal.

I am yet to see this machine printing. I assume it's a Chinese sourced machine re-badged, not a bad thing but useful to know what the bones are, what head it uses etc. Having used Chinese sourced UV machines for a few years the biggest challenge can be support. Buying this in the UK therefore is a major bonus. Edit: I just read that IE have been involved in designing this machine from the start so my info there could be wrong.

As we are in the process of looking for a new supplier of DTF transfers I think this is a good time for the discussion. Suppliers are keen to get your business and offer rapid same day turnarounds but sometimes at a cost. Quality, durability, consistency etc.

What are members thoughts on DTF in general and can you see the smaller desktop machines eventually becoming the norm?

I am currently in the outsourcing camp, although the Ink Experts machine ( and the Nova Chrome one) hold some interest for producing short runs inhouse.

Three things are currently putting me off from buying existing machines.

Firstly is cost of ownership. Being the owner of a Mimaki solvent printer I am painfully aware of the costs of printheads and how regularly they need replacing. I understand DTF ink shortens the life of the head even more.

Secondly whatever anybody says running the machine and the shaker is time consuming. As a one man band it would take time away from other tasks. Even in low volumes DTF transfers are relaatively cheap. A large size print still yields 6 out per linear metre and only costs £2 per print, and small prints are pennies. In high volume (at £7 for 100 metres plus) costs are less than £1.20 per large print.
At those prices my time is better spent producing finished garments. I could possibly save £1 per large transfer by producing my own but the same time could be spent printing more shirts - earning £4 per shirt when those transfers are put onto a shirt.

Lastly I have concerns about what happens when the HSE gets up to speed on the new tech. The fumes associated with transfer production will soon attract their attention and they will target printers.

I like the DTF process but feel very little need to invest in the process - at least until tech evolves to the extent that glue is applied via the printhead.

Many moons ago I converted a L1800 to a roll fed printer which served me really well for about 6 months but then I took the plunge and purchased a "proper" machine. The key thing for me (or rather my clients) is the ability to turn garments around same day which can often be a requirement for them. I have had the machine for about a year and a half now and although DTF is not really my main area this machine has more than paid for itself.

Its about knowing your market, or where you can gain more business. Not neccessarily through DTF either. I have found it has lead to lots of other work and the ability to have everything in house means I rely on no one and I can turn things around super quick, plus my type of customer prefers dealing with 1 supplier for everything.

I also think the durability is not an issue these days. I have two main sectors I work in, music industry and construction. With regards to garments I do not touch the music industry as they are handle by the really big boys (who are incidentally not investing in screen print anymore but are replacing with either DTG or DTF machines as they retire the old screen machines), but the construction industry I have done a lot of DTF for and only ever had one complaint which I knew was because he washed at 40 degrees.

The only thing I currently outsource is UV DTF and I can't see me going down that route just yet as there are other avenues I want to go down.

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Originally Posted by socialgiraffe

With regards to garments I do not touch the music industry as they are handle by the really big boys (who are incidentally not investing in screen print anymore but are replacing with either DTG or DTF machines as they retire the old screen machines),

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Is that more to do with the longevity of screen printing, shorter shelf life of DTF and the obvious repeat custom that brings or something else please Simon?

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Originally Posted by GoldRapt

Is that more to do with the longevity of screen printing, shorter shelf life of DTF and the obvious repeat custom that brings or something else please Simon?

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I think is simply that DTF has improved so much that the main issue (longevity) is no longer valid and it gives them the ability to switch designs in a heartbeat unlike screen print where a 12 colour job can take an hour+ to get going.


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Originally Posted by socialgiraffe

The key thing for me (or rather my clients) is the ability to turn garments around same day which can often be a requirement for them.

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I have never been interested in offering a 'same day' service (due mainly to stock holding reasons), and that is precisely why I buy DTF transfers in. Both my garment supplier and my DTF supplier offer a next day service which works well for me. If I am waiting for the garments I see very little need to spend time producing my own prints when I could be doing something more lucrative.

With regards to the music industry, that is a market that has really polarised over the last few years. The days of bands needing several thousand t-shirts for a 25 date UK medium size venue tour are by and large gone. Bands either want tens of thousands of shirts for an arena tour (which is the preserve of screenprinting) or a few hundred shirts for a short small venue tour. In that sense I agree with you that DTF is more versatile for short runs of 500 shirts.

We're moving forward with our investment into DTF all being well.

We will be offering the service to customers (via the DSF of course!) and don't intend on being the cheapest or the quickest but have every intention of ensuring the best possible quality on both transfers and customer service. That said our prices will be competitive. To start with we won't have a fancy website for ordering either.

If anyone is interested in a regular supplier of transfers please get in touch and we can discuss further.

We did find a new supplier for our transfers and whilst quality was very good overall they don't come close to the ones we will provide and customer service was somewhat lacking. Having bought from most of the big players (well in terms of their marketing!) we believe we can do much better.

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Originally Posted by Justin

So DTF has been around for some time now (Maybe I should create a section for this?)

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This would be a great idea. Whilst I doubt I'll ever by such a machine, I like my holidays and I understand they need daly maintainence, it would be good to know what's out there and what DTF can be capable of.

Hopefully you will create a section for this in the members area Justin?

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We're moving forward with our investment into DTF all being well.

We will be offering the service to customers (via the DSF of course!) and don't intend on being the cheapest or the quickest but have every intention of ensuring the best possible quality on both transfers and customer service. That said our prices will be competitive. To start with we won't have a fancy website for ordering either.

If anyone is interested in a regular supplier of transfers please get in touch and we can discuss further.

We did find a new supplier for our transfers and whilst quality was very good overall they don't come close to the ones we will provide and customer service was somewhat lacking. Having bought from most of the big players (well in terms of their marketing!) we believe we can do much better.

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Good luck in what is a seriously over saturated sector. Would be interested to see your quality as some of the "big players" are using 6+ colour machines and one I know of that is a 9 colour printer. Interestingly, the market is so saturated that I often consider ditching my all singing and dancing DTF printer in favour of sub contracting the transfers. I did quick calculation and the customers that wanted same day prints were so minimal that I can drop them without any financial loss to the business.

Yes, fully understand it's a saturated market....as is Sublimation, mug printing, clothing etc. It's all about finding your own niche as always.

Not interested in same day supply or racing to £4.99 p/m. You certainly get what you pay for with DTF in terms of quality, service....follow up support.

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Originally Posted by socialgiraffe

. I did quick calculation and the customers that wanted same day prints were so minimal that I can drop them without any financial loss to the business.

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My position as well. Transfers often arrive quicker than the garments that they are being printed on.

The biggest problem with providing a premium service is the density of the white ink when being printed onto dark garments. Increasing pass quantity slows the process and increases ink use which hits the margins.

There seems to be a gap in the market for someone providing fluorescent dtf prints. There was a Dutch company selling three head machines with four channels of fluoro colours and four white channels.

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Originally Posted by socialgiraffe

Interestingly, the market is so saturated that I often consider ditching my all singing and dancing DTF printer in favour of sub contracting the transfers.

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But then you have the issue of quality control based on what your personally able to achieve in your DTF buisness.