Our first mug...and so the problems begin!!

OK, we just made our first mug.

Equipment : Mug Press (probably chinese)
Ricoh 3350n
Sublijet Ink
True Pix Classic Paper
BMS European Mugs.

Settings :
170 deg (C)
140 Seconds.

Problems:
1. Solid black appears as though its been rubbed alot for 10 hours (very hard to see in pic but above the "K" on 2nd pic), so in places it looks a little thin. This isnt confined to one area, its just the odd patch here and there.

2. Uppermost/lowermost edges very feint, Im assuming this is the curvature in the mug so I need to reduce the size of the design a little.

3. One edge near the handle is feinter than the other.

Pics to illustrate :

Attachment 580Attachment 581

Any tips to help improve this would be appreciate.

First thing that springs to mind is your template is VERY BIG and by the look of it you are trying to get a full colour print on the mug from top to bottom.

Like all presses, heat is lost from the edges and even more so in presses that are cheaply built. I would reduce the size of your template - top, bottom and sides giving you nice clean lines on the top and bottom and reducing the size may help with the print near the handle.

I would add a little more pressure also from the look of the transfer :)

(yh templates definately to big top to bottom, currently 95mm x 210mm, may knock it down to 85mm x 200mm to see if that helps)

Forgot to add the process we used :
Waited for machine to hit 170 deg.
Put in mug
Started Timer
When it beeped removed Mug and peeled paper.

Instructions that came with heat press I think say...
Wait for machine to get to 170
Put in mug and temp will drop
Wait for temp to rise to 170 again then press timer button
After timer has beeped, press timer button again then wait a further minute
Remove mug.

Uincrase temp to 185c and medium/heavy preasre. As adam mentioned that heat is lost on edges so you need to cook it bit longer. Try 180sec.

A lot of peeps on here use 180 - 180 once press is up to correct temp, I get away with 160 temp and 170 seconds time. All presses will differ, especially the cheaper ones.

I'd increase the pressure a little and put a border of 3 - 5mm top and bottom - may even take it a little more distance from the handle too. On the cheaper presses there's no way you're going to get top to bottom coverage, or really close to the handle.

Is the image sharp or is it just the photo that's blurred.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John G

Is the image sharp or is it just the photo that's blurred.

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Image is sharp (photo a bit blurry), just trying again 185 @ 180s and gonna see hat happens

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul

Uincrase temp to 185c and medium/heavy preasre. As adam mentioned that heat is lost on edges so you need to cook it bit longer. Try 180sec.

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I wouldn't recommend this with Ricoh printers. You need less heat not more.

But i would. I dont think this heat press is accurate. Will see whays going to happen.

Well I did notice this time the heat drops to 160 odd while a mugs in the press, I dont know how normal that is?

Any the result using 180 @ 180s is....

The black is blacker for sure, still a little patchy but it is a small amount apart from across the top edge were Kelly didnt put the mug in the middle.
All edges and text are pin sharp so definitely an improvement...

Droping temp is normal. What i do is put the mug in the press. Wait untill temp stop droping then switch counter on. Set it 180. Should get perfect mug.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sizer

(yh templates definately to big top to bottom, currently 95mm x 210mm, may knock it down to 85mm x 200mm to see if that helps)

Forgot to add the process we used :
Waited for machine to hit 170 deg.
Put in mug
Started Timer
When it beeped removed Mug and peeled paper.

Instructions that came with heat press I think say...
Wait for machine to get to 170
Put in mug and temp will drop
Wait for temp to rise to 170 again then press timer button
After timer has beeped, press timer button again then wait a further minute
Remove mug.

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Si, if you let your press come up to temp with no mug in the blanket, you're gonna burn the crap out of it in no time! Also, the times I gave you are spot on for the Sublijet inks, when you have the profile sorted you should see improvements. Cook too long and too hot your blacks will turn a dirty brown. The last thing to consider is whether your press is actually heating to the temp it says it is. I'd suggest a infra-red thermometer to check it's actually hot enough in the first place.

Heres the pics :


Attachment 582Attachment 583Attachment 584

Attachment 585

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scotty@BMS

Si, if you let your press come up to temp with no mug in the blanket, you're gonna burn the crap out of it in no time! Also, the times I gave you are spot on for the Sublijet inks, when you have the profile sorted you should see improvements. Cook too long and too hot your blacks will turn a dirty brown. The last thing to consider is whether your press is actually heating to the temp it says it is. I'd suggest a infra-red thermometer to check it's actually hot enough in the first place.

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So are we meant to put the mug in when we turn the machine on?

What is the full process you use start to finish?

Is good to have one "heating mug" that is always in when press is heTing up.

I use to turn my press on with a dummy mug in
Cant remember what settings it was - i used them from the bms website
When it got to the correct temp it beeped
I replaced the dummy mug with the one I wanted to print and press start
remove the mug when it counted down to 0 (i did used to swap the mug over half way through, some people do, some dont)
I also dipped in luke warm water to cool down and stop the sub process..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TPM

I use to turn my press on with a dummy mug in
Cant remember what settings it was - i used them from the bms website
When it got to the correct temp it beeped
I replaced the dummy mug with the one I wanted to print and press start
remove the mug when it counted down to 0 (i did used to swap the mug over half way through, some people do, some dont)
I also dipped in luke warm water to cool down and stop the sub process..

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Thanks for that will bear all that in mind on the next one!

but you need colour profile :) I can tell... picture on te mug is sooo diferent then oryginal one. or is it just the bad photo???

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Originally Posted by Paul

but you need colour profile :) I can tell... picture on te mug is sooo diferent then oryginal one. or is it just the bad photo???

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The photo is very warm, taken in natural light, long exposure and wrong whitebalance setting...lol
In reality the images is pretty good, could just do with the black being blacker. Although I expected that with a B&W picture. Im waiting for the colour profile before we try a colour photo as i think that may be a whole different story.

Although I could probably improve the colour settings in Photoshop its on RBG1998 at the moment, when printing it lets the colour management in the printer decide colours.

3rd time lucky!

Tried a colour image/design this time and it looks sweet as....

Attachment 587

This time, preheated with a mug in the machine to 180d, then swapped mugs and pressed for 160s followed by dunking in luke warm water.
(the photo of the happy couple is sharper than shown in the photo)

You could do with taking those pictures in natural daylight. I'm sure they do look good but, from what you show here, I'd agree with Paul that the colour-correction profile isn't accurate enough.

Take the photos in daylight tomorrow and post them again. They'll probably look far more impressive!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JSR

You could do with taking those pictures in natural daylight. I'm sure they do look good but, from what you show here, I'd agree with Paul that the colour-correction profile isn't accurate enough.

Take the photos in daylight tomorrow and post them again. They'll probably look far more impressive!

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Hopefully the photo looks better

Attachment 588

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sizer

Hopefully the photo looks better

Attachment 588

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Looks better in natural light, but it still looks like it's a little faded at the bottom of the image towards the base?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamB

Looks better in natural light, but it still looks like it's a little faded at the bottom of the image towards the base?

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Yh not sure what happened there, done another one since for a mate and no fading anywhere, all i can think of is the paper was a little skewwiff....lol :

Attachment 589

OK, sorted the profile, printed from photoshop using icc profile, perceptual, high quality, original image is in Adobe1998 colour space (hope thats correct, not great on colour management!)

The pic below is on the left with the profile, on the right, standard printer drivers along with the original image for comparison.

Attachment 593

Pic taken in natural light but still not a 100% accurate photo, sat here thou the tones are far to warm "pre profile" in comparison with whats on my screen. The one done with the new profile when held alongside the image on my screen is pretty much spot on. (Although the Mrs prefers the warmer toned one as it makes it look more "summery"...lol)

For those interested, the profile is the same profile as used by the 3300!

if you send me this profile i can worm it up a bit for you without changing the colours :) so you can see if you like it more or not ;)

To be honest its given an accurate representation of whats on the screen, and if customers are buying they will probably want accurate rather than my wifes preference...lol
Having said that if you dont mind I will fire it over just for experimentation purposes, or I could just rename it wifey profile...haha

this is what i mean :) some pictures look better when warmer. send it over and will do copuple of versions ;)

Ahhhhhh - but that's the thing. I've (and I'm sure others have) been in the same boat. The profile you are using may be good for this particular image but it was just pot luck as this profile is not related to the inks you are using.

Profiles are linked to the ink/paper/media used - to be honest you've got lucky with this but when you have to colour match you'll have to go through all of this again.

Personally, I would bit the bullet and get a profile made for your inks to alleviate this problem in the future, think about the mugs that you'll waste getting things sorted to the price of a profile.

I know a nice man that can do profiles (hi Paul) :-)

Hi Adam :) still waiting for the charts ;) lol :D

ricoh 3350n and profile problems this is sounding very familiar thats why i gave up on my 3350

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Originally Posted by Paul

Hi Adam :) still waiting for the charts ;) lol :D

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sent them on Monday Paul ? I was waiting on you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamB

Ahhhhhh - but that's the thing. I've (and I'm sure others have) been in the same boat. The profile you are using may be good for this particular image but it was just pot luck as this profile is not related to the inks you are using.

Profiles are linked to the ink/paper/media used - to be honest you've got lucky with this but when you have to colour match you'll have to go through all of this again.

Personally, I would bit the bullet and get a profile made for your inks to alleviate this problem in the future, think about the mugs that you'll waste getting things sorted to the price of a profile.

I know a nice man that can do profiles (hi Paul) :-)

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This current profile is a sawgrass profile for the 3300, being the 3350 is basically the same I dont think it will be a one off pot luck myself...(fingers crossed)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by purpledragon

ricoh 3350n and profile problems this is sounding very familiar thats why i gave up on my 3350

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No problems with the profile, originally I didnt have it, now I do and its perfick, well chuffed with the results.

my mistake im gettin all mixed up its a 5050n i have oops