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  1. #21
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    In contrast, Conde happily sent out sheets of Reveal S film to interested parties. Got the feedback and improved the product.

  2. #22
    Administrator Justin's Avatar
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    OK, manufacturer has contacted me and I have approved the post. Troy is available more for technical help so please don't bombard with sales enquiries! :-)

    We'll be looking at trialling so I'll try and get some sheets for members to have a go with. I understand that there is a little background training required first so I'll speak to Troy about this.
    Membership scheme now available - Just £10 per year - Regular Supplier Discounts and Special Offers!

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Justin For This Useful Post:

    greenroom (08-03-2018)

  4. #23
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    Full tutorial on how to use the item


  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Customprintwales For This Useful Post:

    GoonerGary (08-03-2018), greenroom (08-03-2018)

  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBergstedt View Post
    Hello All,

    First off, an introduction. My name is Troy Bergstedt, and I'm the Director of Chemical Research at Ikonics Corporation. We are the manufacturer of SubTHAT! films currently being distributed in North America by JDS Industries.


    Troy
    Hi Troy and thanks for popping in. The film looks great, I assumed that trimming would be required, but this only adheres to the product.

    In the video you had a brick. Don't think I could sell a brick! But how does the film behave with strongly textured surfaces, such as stippled/ rough sandstone tiles for example?

    Does the film hold its flexibility when bent or shaped into a curve?

    Really keen to try out a batch, my mind is working overtime thinking about new blanks.
    Last edited by GoonerGary; 09-03-2018 at 08:26 PM.

  7. #25
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    Textured surfaces like brick, stone, unsanded wood, etc. will give different results and effects, depending on the depth of the thickness variation on the surface and "grain size" (for lack of a better term). SubTHAT/SubLam* requires firm contact with the substrate while in the press in order to get good transfer and adhesion.

    While I mention flow and leveling of the coating in the press, the film itself is quite thin - about 1 mil/25 microns - so the liquid flow only goes so far. For example, fine-grained sandstone will give good coverage over a flat, relatively smooth surface, but something like a brick with larger pores and voids will only make good contact at the top surfaces - in other words, the peaks will get transfer, but the valleys will not. The red silicone sheet will conform to some degree of irregularity in the surface, but since it is not itself very compressible, you would need the green heat conductive foam pad on top in order to make it conform.

    I should also mention that multiple layers of the film can be built up in succession in the event that the first layer doesn't give the desired coverage. The glossy slice of birch that I hold up in the video actually had three layers of SubTHAT built up. The first layer had spots where the coating was absorbed into the endgrain of the wood, the second layer had a couple spots where the grain texture could still be seen, and the third layer ultimately gave a high gloss that looks quite similar to a lacquer finish.

    Regarding flexibility, your question prompted me to run down to the shop and put a piece of SubTHAT on aluminum in a vice to test it out. The flexibility is really going to depend on the level of adhesion and the radius of the curvature. The film cures hard, so it will start to craze and lift off if bent too sharply, with initial failure occurring where I had some air bubbles trapped under the film. Where the bend is more gradual (radius of curvature about 4 inches or more) and coverage was uniform, it held up well with no visual defects. I would not recommend using the film on flexible substrates that could be subjected to repeated flexing, as I expect that the film would fracture and/or delaminate sooner or later.

    To answer the question before anyone asks it, yes you could transfer SubTHAT to a shirt, but no, you would not like the results. That's a much higher level of complexity that I haven't come up with a solution for yet.

    Keep the questions coming. I've tried the film on some strange substrates with various degrees of success, but I'm sure I haven't thought of everything.

    *SubTHAT! is the name for the product currently being distributed by JDS in the US. SubLam is a slight variation of the formulation, and may ultimately be what is available outside the US. Stay tuned for more details.
    Troy Bergstedt
    Director of Chemical Research
    IKONICS Corporation
    Manufacturer of SubTHAT!

  8. #26
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    Thanks for the reply. I like the idea of a deep lacquer as I'm assuming this will give a greater depth of print especially with the clear gloss? Do you plan to introduce a thicker film for this purpose rather than pressing three times? I'll do some experimenting with the curvature and let you know the results.

    If I'm pressing onto 0.04 inch (1mm) metal, would this blank need to be raised up to avoid the film pressing onto the surrounding platen/ copy page below? Is 1mm too thin to press onto?

  9. #27
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    I've tried coated this film thicker, but this causes some of the fluid to ooze out past the edges of the carrier sheet before the curing/hardening chemistry kicks in. The squeeze-out around the edges can generally be cleaned up relatively easily by flicking it off with a fingernail, but some substrates can get scuffed up while doing this.

    For thin substrates, you have two options. You can raise it up so there's a good drop-off at the edges of the piece (a few mm should be sufficient, but you would need your support to be the same size as the substrate to keep it from flexing in the press), which will give clean edge-to-edge coverage and peel when cooled. Alternatively, you can just set the piece onto a sheet of paper and let the film cure and stick to the paper. Once it's cool, you can rip it off the paper and any flash around the edges of the piece is easily rubbed off.
    Troy Bergstedt
    Director of Chemical Research
    IKONICS Corporation
    Manufacturer of SubTHAT!

  10. #28
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    Where the bend is more gradual (radius of curvature about 4 inches or more) and coverage was uniform, it held up well with no visual defects.

    That sounds quite good. One of the things I was thinking of using this film on is copper arthritis and pain relief bangles. If the copper strip can be bent into a bangle without cracking that would be ideal.

    Has any tests been done on how the film adheres to polished copper?

    thanks
    kevin

  11. #29
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    I would assume it works the same as glass and acrylic as seen in the video. I had previously posted on the forum looking for sublimation copper, so this solves the problem.

  12. #30
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    I have not tried it on copper, though I have on brass, which requires sandblasting or other means of roughing up the surface to get the film to anchor. I'll pick up some copper to test it on and report back.
    Troy Bergstedt
    Director of Chemical Research
    IKONICS Corporation
    Manufacturer of SubTHAT!

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to TBergstedt For This Useful Post:

    Customprintwales (09-03-2018)

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