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  1. #1
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    Printer to replace the Epson Photo 1500W for sublimation...

    I thought I would start this thread as an on going report and progress diary as I look into viable alternative printers to replace the Epson Stylus Photo 1500W for sublimation.

    As many of the forum users are currently using a 1500W we will be looking into finding a viable replacement printer. It's one of our main priorities.

    The 1500W used a 6 colour / channel ink set, the additional LC (light cyan) and LM (light magenta) inks gave an increased colour gamut, better skin tones, and improved gradients of colour. This was ideal for anyone wanting to produce photo quality sublimation prints.

    Other benefits to the 1500W, the media handling; it has a strong paper feed which could handle lots of work without slipping or misfeeding and was also one of very few printers that could be used for printing 3D film media without the paper rollers scoring or marking the media as it printed (also known as pizza cutter marks).

    What are the current options?

    As it currently stands there are no A3 - 6 colour Epson inkjet printers on the market that can be used with sublimation inks to replace the 1500W. In order to use sublimation inks the printer needs a way of getting the ink to the ink cartridges through either refillable ink cartridges or a CISS.

    Epson Expression XP-15000 - this is the direct replacement to the 1500W. I currently have one of these printers on test using the standard OEM inks. I am yet to test any 3rd party inks as they are currently unavailable in the UK. I do have a set of 3rd party standards inks (not sublimation) coming from China to begin testing. CISS and Refillable cartridges are still under development. Based on past printers I foresee this to take 3-4 months before they are consumer ready. Once ready we usually order a few samples and test them for 3-4 weeks before deciding whether to start selling them.

    First impressions of the XP-15000-
    1) It appears to be a well built printer, solid and robust. Much like the 1500W. This is good to see as we often see the newer printers being made from cheaper materials, using lower grade components and generally feeling cheaper.
    2) Print speed is about the same as the 1500W. It's not laser fast but a full A3 photo print can be produced in around 90-120 seconds from start to finish
    3) Print quality is very good as expected. Very similar to the 1500W but it has improved reds (especially a solid London Bus style red) another improvement is the black and white grey scale printing. The 1500W always suffered with BW prints as it only had 1 black ink, so greys were difficult to achieve with both standard printing and sublimation. The XP-15000 has the addition of a grey cartridge which improves this.
    4) Paper feed appears to be strong and allows for thick media to pass without issue through the vertical hopper paper feed at the back. The rear paper feed does not hold as many sheets as the 1500W (around 50 sheets of 120gsm I would guess) but its not the end of the world.

    Issues for using this printer for sublimation-
    1) The printer no longer uses LC and LM inks, they have been replaced by Red and Grey. It still uses the regular CMYK though, so we already have the correct CMYK Inktec inks in stock. The Red and Grey inks will need to be either made from scratch, or we are hoping that the Red Inktec ink for an R1800 / R1900 will work. And an LK Light black ink from a Pro 4880 / 7880 can be used to replace the grey ink. This will take further investigation, but looking at a draw down test of those inks they look very close to other inks we have seen in the past, so fingers crossed.
    2) The cartridges; XP-15000 uses a brand new series of ink cartridges (Squirrel series - T378 / T478). These do not employ the spring valve seal like the older 1500W cartridges used. Valve cartridges sealed around the nozzle and would control the ink flow. They were also completely spongeless - hollow - which was ideal for using with sublimation inks. The XP-15000- cartridges use a sponge to control the ink delivery. This may prove to be an issue when used with sublimation inks, and will require further testing once RIC or CISS are available.
    3) ICC colour correct; this will certainly be required as we all know. Once the above 2 issues are resolved / overcome this will be the final step in the process and is fairly straight forward.

    Epson Surecolor SC-P600 - this is the flag ship, top of the range A3 size printer from Epson. I have used the SC-P600 in the past and was very pleased with it for producing fine art prints. The SC-P600 has been available for around 18 months and so 3rd party inks, RIC and CISS are readily available on the market.

    The SC-P600 uses 8 colours / channels in total (Black, Light Black, Light Light Black, Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Light Cyan and Light Magenta). All these colours are available in Inktec Sublinova form, so this is a bonus. We hope the 8 colours will give further improvements over the 1500W / XP-15000 models.

    The SC-P600 uses spring valve style ink cartridges, so spongeless / hollow cartridges can be used which is ideal for using with sublimation inks. We already stock the CISS and we know it works well with the printer.

    We also have the ability to make the SC-P600 'chipless' which means it no longer registers an ink level. This will mean the printer wont stop and annoyingly ask for you to install new inks, or reset the ink levels half way through a print. Just ensure the ink tanks are topped up and keep printing.

    We plan to start testing the SC-P600 within the next week. Development of the XP-15000 will continue, but as stated above progress is being dictated by the Chinese suppliers who need to 'crack' the chips on the new cartridges.

    I will keep this thread updated with progress, our thoughts, any issues that arise etc to try and give the forum users a better insight and knowledge.

    Alex
    Last edited by InkExpress; 17-05-2018 at 01:32 PM.
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    Boyan (19-05-2018), GoonerGary (17-05-2018), Jason (18-05-2018), Justin (17-05-2018), Leadbelly (09-05-2019), nibz33 (17-05-2018), pw66 (17-05-2018), RuthWinchester (31-07-2018), socialgiraffe (17-05-2018), StellaD (17-05-2018)

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    You mention that the SC-P600 has 8 colours, Isn't it 9? as it uses photo and matt black, which auto change depnding on what you are printing. Unless of course you just use Intec black in both.

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    Alex,

    Great stuff, and chance of a ball park figure as to price?

    James

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    You mention that the SC-P600 has 8 colours, Isn't it 9? as it uses photo and matt black, which auto change depnding on what you are printing. Unless of course you just use Intec black in both.
    Hi Jimbo, P600 uses 9 inks in total. As you say PK and MK but when using sublimation they will both be filled with BK - Black. The printer only uses 1 of the inks at a time so either PK or MK. In fact they actually share the same ink feed line. The printer has 9 ink cartridges but only 8 ink feed lines / nozzle areas.

    Alex

    Quote Originally Posted by James990 View Post
    Alex,

    Great stuff, and chance of a ball park figure as to price?

    James
    Hi James, for the SC-P600 around £650-690 I would hope (for printer, ink system, chipless mod, 900ml Inktec ink, A3 paper, ICC etc). The price will fluctuate with the price of the printer itself. £600+ will be a lot of money, but compared to the SG800 / SG7100 printers it will be a far better machine overall. Other options from Epson could be the L1400 - a 4 colour printer so not going to cut the mustard against 1500W. Eco-Tank L1800 - would be brilliant, but they are not UK models so warranty is void, availability is very limited and they cost around £680 then factor in the sub inks, paper etc it would be in the mid £750's.

    XP-15000 I am totally in the dark with at the moment due to not having started any development with them.

    Alex
    Last edited by InkExpress; 17-05-2018 at 12:33 PM.
    Ink Express ltd. Unit 20 Fallings Park Industrial Estate, Park Lane, Wolverhampton. WV10 9QB

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    Great information, thanks Alex ( I asked the question about the XP15000 in an email yesterday). How many of us wish we had bought a couple of 1500w's when they were still cheap? ( there was someone selling a used one on ebay last week for nearly £400).

    I had been wondering about the L1800. There is a Czech company advertising it under a .co.uk website. That is in the Eu, so wouldn't the warrenty still be valid? Is it a grey import, or is it readily available as an EU product?

    Do Inktec offer a profile for the L1800

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    I follow with interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pw66 View Post
    Great information, thanks Alex ( I asked the question about the XP15000 in an email yesterday). How many of us wish we had bought a couple of 1500w's when they were still cheap? ( there was someone selling a used one on ebay last week for nearly £400).

    I had been wondering about the L1800. There is a Czech company advertising it under a .co.uk website. That is in the Eu, so wouldn't the warrenty still be valid? Is it a grey import, or is it readily available as an EU product?

    Do Inktec offer a profile for the L1800
    Ah yes, I recall your email Pat :) Alza sell the L1800 through a .co.uk website, as you say they are based in Czech Republic. They are a fair company to deal with I have purchased a few EU printers from them for testing in the past. Inktec don't offer a profile for that specific model. But as it is based on the 1500W I would image a 1500W ICC would work well. Or have a custom one made which is easy enough to do.

    If things fall through with XP-15000 and SC-P600 we will look into the L1800. But the cost is the biggest factor for us and most likely the end user.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMugs View Post
    I follow with interest.
    Thanks JMugs, hopefully we will have some updates in the coming weeks and give forum users some idea of what may come into the market place.

    Alex
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    Quote Originally Posted by InkExpress View Post
    Ah yes, I recall your email Pat :) . But as it is based on the 1500W I would image a 1500W ICC would work well. Or have a custom one made which is easy enough to do.

    If things fall through with XP-15000 and SC-P600 we will look into the L1800. But the cost is the biggest factor for us and most likely the end user.





    Alex
    I assumed from the brochure and spec that it was based on the 1500w. £500 + is a big premium to pay for a 1500w with a built in ciss! Based on the cost of some of the other eco tank models that price will probably rise if it ever gets listed as a UK product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pw66 View Post
    I assumed from the brochure and spec that it was based on the 1500w. £500 + is a big premium to pay for a 1500w with a built in ciss! Based on the cost of some of the other eco tank models that price will probably rise if it ever gets listed as a UK product.
    Yes most likely, as you say the L1800 is £500+, a set of Inktec inks to suit would be around £55-60, then possibly a custom ICC on top. Ideally the SC-P600 will come in at a similar price and will hopefully have the benefit of being a better overall machine, better print and be readily available in the UK.
    Ink Express ltd. Unit 20 Fallings Park Industrial Estate, Park Lane, Wolverhampton. WV10 9QB

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    That's a great post to update us with, and perfectly timed for me. I was just discussing this afternoon with my wife about getting an A3 printer. I see another supplier sell a P600 converted for use with sublimation ink that they bundle with film that you print on rather than paper to 'sublimate' onto cotton. It only does light shirts at the moment because no white ink but it can be used as a sublimation printer as normal if you you like. It comes in at over £1k though.

    I'll definitely keep reading here to see how you get on. But dont take too long lol ;-)

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