Mugs printing brown and fuzzy at 190c

[Allthingsscilly]

I have recently started a dye sublimation business. I have being having good result with my flat press printing on tiles etc,
but not such a good time printing mugs. I bought a box of mugs from Signzworld and have being trying to sort it out with them
but it's been a fruitless task. They claim the mugs are of high quality and require high temperatures to print properly, but
they only print well at 160c/180secs. At their recommendations I get brown/blurred images that frankly look awful.
They recommended 190c/60secs and keep cutting down the time and increase the pressure, done all this and they simply
do not print well at anything above 165c. Having used half the box to get a few reasonable results/which are no where near as
good as printing the same images on tiles at 204c in my flatbed press.

Are these mugs not AA as they say they have sold me? ( I notice they scratch easily too ) Should I buy from another supplier. Is Signzworld any good?

I have a 2 mugs FREESUB and a ST3042 vacuum oven. The results are very similar in both at high temps. My printer is a Sawgrass
SG400 using Sublet HD inks using their recommended XPRES paper.

Any help or advice would be gratefully received as I have spent several weeks now going around in circles.

Will Evans - Isles of Scilly

[John G]

It all depends on which ink, paper and mugs you use - if you use good quality consumables, you'll get good quality results.

On my Freesub twin mug press I set it at 125 degrees idle - 167 degrees to cook and at 170 seconds - this works perfect for Listawood & Xpres mugs using Xpres XP4072A paper and Sawgrass inks through a Ricoh 5050n printer.

I have 2 x Freesubs, both set to the same settings - it works for me, perfect mug every time.

[webtrekker]

Do yourself a favour and ditch the mugs. I started out with similar 'AAA' brand from ebay. They had dings and dimples and black specks on some but seemed to print ok however, a few months down the road and they almost all faded away after washing a few times.

I've since used Listawood AA mugs and results are excellent. Not one bad mug and the ones I've printed for myself and family have never faded after loads of dishwashings.

I use CIE inks and paper in my Ricoh 3110 and either press them or use my halogen oven.

[mrs maggot]

So you already have printed their mugs well @ 160/180 why are you not sticking with that ? I cannot see what you are trying to gain by using their settings, if you have found they already print well with 160/180

We use their mugs for a lot of our jobs, and don't have an issue with them.

[InkExpress]

I have used Signzworld mugs in the past (have done two runs of 500 mugs all from Signzworld) yes they do have the odd dimple and imperfections but I found them to be very good to be honest.

I do not use a 3 vacuum press so can;t comment on the best settings. I prefer to use a standard clamp mug press as setup is far easy and its easier to control the temp and time again I got my mug press from Signzworld (just a cheap MP160 single mug press)

I set my press to 175c and time to 180 seconds, allow the press to come to temp (with a blank mug inside), once at temp remove blank mug and insert a room temp mug with paper transfer wrap, clamp and start the timer, press for 180 seconds, when timer expires I remove the mug, leave for around 30-60 seconds then remove the paper transfer. Perfect results for me every time.

I use the same method for all my test printers (mainly Epson printers using Inktec Sublinova inks, but I have use the same method on a variety of inks when we testing what inks to start supplying)

I know a few of the members on here who will dunk the mug into warm water straight out the press to cut the transfer process, this is not something I have ever needed to do as I have been pleased with my process but its worth noting if your images are too dark (the cooling time I allow does allow for the process to continue even after coming out the press)

Alex

[Allthingsscilly]

So you already have printed their mugs well @ 160/180 why are you not sticking with that ? I cannot see what you are trying to gain by using their settings, if you have found they already print well with 160/180

We use their mugs for a lot of our jobs, and don't have an issue with them.

Thanks for your reply, I'm grateful for all advice as I'm just starting out in this business. The reason I'm not happy is because the mugs are ok. It's when I compare the same images printed
on ceramic tiles in my flat press, they don't compare. The saturation of colour and sharpness on the tiles is near perfect. I have also noticed the wraps after use on the mugs
compared to what was used on the tiles look very different too, in that most of the ink has been transferred to the tiles, but the wraps look like most of the ink is still on the paper.

So my question is: Is it possible to print images to same quality on mugs as you can on tiles? ( same ink same paper ). The temps on the tiles are much hotter of course ( 204c ). Temps I can not repeat on the mugs.

Will

[InkExpress]

Hi Will, every sublimate item differs due to different coatings applied to them by the manufacturer. I would have imaged the tiles and mugs would be similar given they are both ceramic and should have a similar coating but this may not always be the case.

I find fabric items the same depending on the material, the colour, texture, weave etc.

This image is a good example, all printed using the same ink, same printer, same paper, same software, same heat press. But the products are different materials / texture and colour and you get a differing result.



Alex

[Allthingsscilly]

Hi John, Many thanks for reply. I'm desperate for all the help I can get right now. Your set-up seems very similar to mine as your are using Sawgrass inks and exactly the same paper ( I thinking of changing the paper, except I get perfect results on tiles ).
It maybe wise to ditch the mugs try new ones. I have just purchase some mugs from Longforte ( colour handles and inners ). Their recommended settings are different to Signzworld and similar to what I am using now ( 160c 180secs medium pressure ).
I'm hoping these will be better. What I didn't mention before was the preheat/idle temp I am using. Signzworld recommended 100c, I found this unsuccessful and have had to use 150c to get the best results. So 162c at 180sec with preheat of 150c. This gives me a total
time of about 4mins in the press. The weather here is warm like everywhere so the mugs are not too cold before going in the press. I remove the wraps almost immediately I remove from the press and allow them to cool naturally.

I will try your settings and let your know the results.

Many thanks,

Will - www.allthingsscilly.com

[mrs maggot]

AAh right I understand a little better now, OK as in they are not WOW just ok.

[John G]

Hi Will,
I leave an old mug in the press (a knackered old chipped one - unprinted) to get the press up to the idle temp - when it beeps (125 degrees) I take out the old mug and replace with the one to be printed and press the timer button. The heat rises up to 167 degrees and then the timer starts and counts down from 170 seconds. When it reaches 0, it beeps and I take the printed one out and swap for another to be printed - and so on. At the end of the run, place the knackered one back in and leave to cool - it saves on blanket life.

I take off the paper straight away - if its cold enough in the workshop I place them on a concrete floor beside an open door with a breeze coming from outside to cool them - if its too hot in the workshop, I cool them with a fan. If they don't cool fast enough, you may get a slight blurring on the blacks.

I get perfect photo quality using above method.

Cheers John