Tech help needed

[geckofly]

First post and apologies for it being so long, but really trying to get to understand what the problem is and if there is any way to resolve it .
I am an artist and i have for many years produced handpainted Art Kites, for the last year I have been trying to hand paint with dye sublimation inks on to a coated polyester fabric.
I am using sublinova smart inks at moment (suitable for DTG printing or dye sublimation print) on a single sided polyurethane coated 100 percent polyester fabric that is supplied by a dye sublimation print company and one which they print successfully on.
I paint either using pure ink or slightly diluted with distilled water.
After heat pressing (at the moment 200C at 60 seconds although i have experimented with many different temps and times even up to 3min)
The results are excellent .after the fabric has cooled i do a wet rub test with a damp cloth with almost no dye coming off
however after 12 hours or so the same test gives unacceptable results with significant staining.
I would like to understand what is happening and if there is a way to stop this happening
If this is the ink migrating up to the surface it would seem that the pigments are not being trapped in the fibres ?
I have tried post pressing washing off with synthrapol but although some dye is washed off the stability is the same and rubbing off still is unacceptable
(if the problem was a oversaturation of ink then I dont understand why a wash off doesnt resolve this )
Would love to hear from somebody who can shed some light on what might be happening
I would have given up months ago but the results are really superb obviously apart from this issue
many thanks

[cyprian.costelloe]

My first question would be, what is the polyester coated with? Could that be causing a reaction with the ink. I am printing onto polyester material as well with no ill effects.

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[geckofly]

My first question would be, what is the polyester coated with? Could that be causing a reaction with the ink. I am printing onto polyester material as well with no ill effects.

Sent from my K10 using Tapatalk

yes its a polyester coated with a polyurethane coating (on one side)as in a ripstop polyester fabric , the company that supply it print on to it with excellent results as well as printing on to double sided coated polyester and no issues

[cyprian.costelloe]

Do you have a sub printer that would allow you print a sheet that you could then press onto the material. If that works you will eliminate the material and the ink from the problem and the issue would have to be the way you are applying it.
You could also try painting onto the sublimation paper and then pressing that onto the material

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[geckofly]

No i dont have a printer but have tried many times painting on transfer paper , these results are a little better but still get a bit of rub off. For sure the problem is in the non orthodox application but as this is what i want to achieve I would like to fully understand what is going wrong and then maybe i can do something that mitigates this problem
For example:
1,if the pigments are being encapsulated in the fibres, is what is left excess ink lying around the fibres and is it this that migrates to the surface over time in solid form ?
2. Is there a better wash off process that would better remove this pigment ?
3. would greater pressure help?
4. would a lower temp and longer press reduce the excess ink travelling or is the excess ink saturating the fibres and then not allowing them to cool and trap the pigment .
I dont know the answers was hoping someone on here might be able to shed some light on the chemistry

[JMugs]

You can ignore pressure, the dye is not "Squeezed" into the fabric.

A few points of confusion

1. I don't understand why the fabric is coated what is the need?
2. Inks suitable for DTG and sublimation? The chemistry for the inks is very different, they are two different processes....so which are they suitable for?

Not sure it will provide then answers....but it does raise questions.

Janners

[webtrekker]

My guess is that oversaturation is indeed the cause of your problems.

The sublimation process turns solid ink (your print) into a gas which enters opened pores in the material when heated, without the ink going through an intermediate liquid state. I think your artwork may be too thickly applied, unlike the extremely thin, even coat, produced by a sublimation printer. In fact, even when printing using a printer we still have to make sure the inks aren't applied too heavily.

[geckofly]

Thanks Janners
The fabric is coated as a wind barrier and to stabilise the fabric its is 56g fabric with the end product being a kite
https://www.inktec-europe.com/wp-con...ata_150102.pdf
this states that the ink is suitable for direct printing and dye sublimation
I did wounder also what the difference was and contacted the company Intech but they were less than helpful just refering me to data sheets

[geckofly]

My guess is that oversaturation is indeed the cause of your problems.

The sublimation process turns solid ink (your print) into a gas which enters opened pores in the material when heated, without the ink going through an intermediate liquid state. I think your artwork may be too thickly applied, unlike the extremely thin, even coat, produced by a sublimation printer. In fact, even when printing using a printer we still have to make sure the inks aren't applied too heavily.

in that case do you know of an effective way to wash out the excess inks ? thanks

[JMugs]

Sublinova inks are great inks, but they are sublimation inks, which then brings us to Webtrekker's point where I would agree. In essence you are using the wrong tool for the job, or in this case the wrong ink for the job.

Washing out the excess is not really the way forward, using the right inks or dyes would be a better route, in my opinion.

Sometimes a step backwards makes the journey forward so much easier.

Regards
Janners