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Thread: DTG pros & cons

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    Senior Member logobear's Avatar
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    DTG pros & cons

    With the print shows coing up again, I am wondering if any forum members can share positive or negative experiences of DTG.

    We can all accept that it is important to have volume throughput to keep them from clogging up.
    Some use branded & hence more expensive inks, - although they do offer a more 'turn-key' solution.

    Might it be better to get 2 smaller machines or 1 larger one, in case of down time?

    I understand that there are special heat presses for DTG that allow water vapour / moisture to escape while curing?

    any thoughts? Thanks again.
    Phil
    1 Hour T-shirt printing shop in Newcastle upon Tyne.

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    Logobear t-shirt print and embroidery. 74 Clayton Street. Newcastle. NE1 5PG. UK

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    I’ve looked at Epsom ones and will be looking at the show but it’s a bit chicken and egg situation but I did buy a sefa auto open press which came with a dtg platen but haven’t used it yet ! It does however open automatically which looked a bit swish


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    Following with interest because I am in the same process as you.

    A lot of the large 'print on demand' (POD) shops appear to be opting for multiple ( ie dozens) of the Epson F2100 rather than one or two large Kornet printers. Having said that, they tend to view the Epsons as a 'consumable asset' and tend to dispose of them at the end of the warrenty/leasing package, in the same way as they would only keep a van for a few years before replacing it. I get the impresion that parts are very costly after the warrenty expires.

    I think that the best way to view DTG printers in general is that you are not buying a 'family heirloom'. It is not like buying a screen printing press or Pressmech that is a one off purchase that will last for decades - DTG machines have a very finite life. Purchase costs need to be recouped and profits made over a short period. If you get a couple of extra years then that is a bonus, but in general costs of ownership need to be viewed as an ongoing expense.

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    Premium Member logodigitizing's Avatar
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    I'm looking at DTG too..these epson F2100 look great to get into the market but are there any similar options available, anyone with experience of this level of machine please?

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    I would say the cons are going to stack up quicker than pros. Main one's being set-up cost then running cost then down time. All of these will be very significant. Never really heard anyone say their Epson DTG's are great machines but everyone I know with other brands of DTG also complain. Epson is probably one of the lesser advanced brands hence cheaper. As you will expect down time you will need 2 smaller machines running side by side rather than a larger if you will be having critical deadline runs.

    One thing for sure, when you speak to each manufacturer at the show, whatever running cost they give you such as ink costs per print etc. you can double it as a minimum starting point. Most will strictly dictate what inks you have to use and they are expensive. Expect to pour a large amount away every week from the maintenance cycles and that is even if you have hardly been using it. Each month you will be talking hundreds down the drain. Plenty of other cons such as warranties are largely pointless as so much of the machine is classed as consumables and replacements are costly.

    On the flip side, if you can build up to plenty of orders going through every day for several hours I am sure you can make plenty of money. The good machines can get a really good print laid down and in a decent time. They will look slightly different after the first wash as they are a bit stiff with the excess pre-treat and the heat press mark, plus a little bit of surface ink drops out but the final result is usually very good.

    What ever they tell you at the show, I would then do very thorough research and try to speak to people who actually use the machines. They are sales people and will bullshit like the best of them. The claims they make are laughable in hindsight.

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    Premium Member logodigitizing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    I would say the cons are going to stack up quicker than pros. Main one's being set-up cost then running cost then down time. All of these will be very significant. Never really heard anyone say their Epson DTG's are great machines but everyone I know with other brands of DTG also complain. Epson is probably one of the lesser advanced brands hence cheaper. As you will expect down time you will need 2 smaller machines running side by side rather than a larger if you will be having critical deadline runs.

    One thing for sure, when you speak to each manufacturer at the show, whatever running cost they give you such as ink costs per print etc. you can double it as a minimum starting point. Most will strictly dictate what inks you have to use and they are expensive. Expect to pour a large amount away every week from the maintenance cycles and that is even if you have hardly been using it. Each month you will be talking hundreds down the drain. Plenty of other cons such as warranties are largely pointless as so much of the machine is classed as consumables and replacements are costly.

    On the flip side, if you can build up to plenty of orders going through every day for several hours I am sure you can make plenty of money. The good machines can get a really good print laid down and in a decent time. They will look slightly different after the first wash as they are a bit stiff with the excess pre-treat and the heat press mark, plus a little bit of surface ink drops out but the final result is usually very good.

    What ever they tell you at the show, I would then do very thorough research and try to speak to people who actually use the machines. They are sales people and will bullshit like the best of them. The claims they make are laughable in hindsight.
    thanks Andrew, do you have any machines then? If so what models etc?
    It would be good to get some kind of list together of what people have and their experiences so that we can help make decisions.
    many thanks

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    Hello DSF

    I would like to try and help with any questions you might have regarding the Epson F2100.

    Attached are a few prints that I produced this morning for our display at P&P.

    We will have two Epson F2100's on our stand so feel free to pop over and have a chat or if you have any questions i'm happy to answer on here that way people can call out any suspected BS

    Ricky
    Xpres
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Premium Member logodigitizing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky@Xpres View Post
    Hello DSF

    I would like to try and help with any questions you might have regarding the Epson F2100.

    Attached are a few prints that I produced this morning for our display at P&P.

    We will have two Epson F2100's on our stand so feel free to pop over and have a chat or if you have any questions i'm happy to answer on here that way people can call out any suspected BS

    Ricky
    Xpres
    Hi Ricky, thanks for your input and offer of advice
    which pretreatment machines do you use?
    does the pretreatment always have to be that large surface area?
    Cost of above and ongoing costs?
    Maintenance of Epson, I know it has it's own cleaning cartridge but what are the 'hidden' if any costs and time involvement, maintenance routines etc?
    Heatpress, auto and does it require a DTG platen, costs involved?
    I'll add more as I think of them :)

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    I guess what every sceptical garment decorator wants to know is the cons, as much if not more so then hearing about the pro's. We can all sell anything on pro's but it's how you manage to still sell something even after explaining the cons. Resellers want to sell a machine for sure but they also want the cusotmer to prosper so they buy another or go for bigger and better model from them. Aside from any salespersons targets (which can skew a sales pitch, especially if its comission based) it's in the resellers interest to look after you, give you the truths and explain how to best optimise or capitalise from using the machine but equally explain that they can be a use it or loose it situation if you only print minimal quantites a day, week, month, year and the cleaning cycles eat what should be going on products. Sometimes the cons aren't clear until the new model comes out either, with additional/better features you didn't realie you needed but thats the way of the world with most things these days. Those T shirts look epic Ricky, so how about telling us what the cons are, is it amount of ink used or the time to print, logevity of such intense colours or is it a decorators dream with no downsides only positives and this time next year we'll all be millionaires! Okay you probably want to save that for conversations with potentials at the show, I'll pop along on the Monday, your bound to spot me, I'm the handsome one :)

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    Hi Mr-Gobby

    I completely agree with you.

    DTG is not for everyone and its not a magic box that produces perfect prints at the click of a button, it takes work.

    As for cons, at this end of the market print cost and print speed are the biggest.

    Ink Cost
    Epson ink is £147.00 per 600ml cartridge, a solid white A4 print will cost about £2.00 in ink a full platen around £4.50 in ink. But you don't need to print the job to get a price, just RIP the job in Garment Creator (RIP provided by Epson) and it will tell you the estimated ink usage so you can quote the job accordingly.


    Print Speed
    A good operator should get 15-18 dark shirts an hour, double that for white t-shirts.
    The Brother GTX prints at twice the speed but at twice the cost. For the same money you can have two F2100's and when one goes down ( they are printers they will go down) you are still in production.
    If you PM me your address I will post out a print that you can wash test so you can see how the wash affects the print firsthand.

    Ricky
    Xpres


    Quote Originally Posted by mr-gobby View Post
    I guess what every sceptical garment decorator wants to know is the cons, as much if not more so then hearing about the pro's. We can all sell anything on pro's but it's how you manage to still sell something even after explaining the cons. Resellers want to sell a machine for sure but they also want the cusotmer to prosper so they buy another or go for bigger and better model from them. Aside from any salespersons targets (which can skew a sales pitch, especially if its comission based) it's in the resellers interest to look after you, give you the truths and explain how to best optimise or capitalise from using the machine but equally explain that they can be a use it or loose it situation if you only print minimal quantites a day, week, month, year and the cleaning cycles eat what should be going on products. Sometimes the cons aren't clear until the new model comes out either, with additional/better features you didn't realie you needed but thats the way of the world with most things these days. Those T shirts look epic Ricky, so how about telling us what the cons are, is it amount of ink used or the time to print, logevity of such intense colours or is it a decorators dream with no downsides only positives and this time next year we'll all be millionaires! Okay you probably want to save that for conversations with potentials at the show, I'll pop along on the Monday, your bound to spot me, I'm the handsome one :)

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