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  1. #11
    Premium Member Tetris Champion, Space Invaders Champion, Asteroids Champion
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    What’s the cost of this setup going to be do you know?
    I have also been looking at something like this but limited space means a4 might be a better option for me.

    I have been using the old bn-20 for prints but time is the biggest restriction for me.
    something like this would be a game changer.

    Can you post pictures of the actual kit you received?
    Sorry, I have no idea on cost, perhaps IE might pop up and give you an idea. Alternatively I think there is a page to register your interest. While I had the machine on test I did not use my versacam once for printed HTV. I have even thought that I may end up having to sell the Versacam or risk the print head drying out through non use.

    I can not post pictures as I do not have the machine anymore, sorry :-(


    I do hope they're paying you well for this review Simon :-)

    DTF has come on leaps and bounds. We can get the transfers made ridiculously cheap so really not worth the investment unless we needed to turnaround small quantities very quickly

    I'd also be looking for A3, A4 is far too small for anything nowadays.

    Interested to hear costs.
    You can tell a proper cynic from about three miles as they always assume a good review must mean being paid :-) For the record I got the ink and 100 sheets FOC and the machine has sadly been returned although I am getting a machine shortly.

    I suppose it depends on your market etc. Cheapest I have seen A3 transfers for is £5.00 (plus post) and takes two days. If you only do very low volumes then this would perhaps be the better option. However I have noticed that as the creation of transfers is so easy and cheap I found myself experimenting more and trialling new ideas etc. It's even made me open up an Etsy store which considering I can not stand selling direct to consumer is a huge step LOL. Sold a few garments in the first few days (weirdly to France) but have since temporarily closed the shop until I get organised better.

    I disagree about A3 v A4. But having been in the garment decoration industry for about 25 years now I suppose I am still a newbie ;-)

    I am not a fan of huge lumps of vinyl on garments and although marginally better, it is still a film sitting on top of the fabric and has that feel to it. If all the designs/art I was doing required A3 then I would probably invest in DTG simply because of the hand feel.
    USING: Whatever it takes to get the job done...

  2. #12
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    Like the thought of DTF, but have some reservations about entry level machines. DIY Epsons are great for sublimation - pre ecotank they were all cheap enough to be disposable - but how long will they last with DTF ink? A possible £1500 is a lot to risk on a short term solution. If you only get 1500 A4 sheets before it dies then the cost is £1.42, not 42p

    I wouldn't consider anything less than A3/A3+ for garment use.

    One of the drawbacks for me is that DTF has already gone to the DIY market before there are many commercial quality machines around. The weekend warriors and dinning room table mob will be in the game and carving the prices before the pro shops get an affordable decent machine.


    I would love for Alex to have a success with this and make me eat my words.

  3. #13
    Premium Member Tetris Champion, Space Invaders Champion, Asteroids Champion
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    ut how long will they last with DTF ink? A possible £1500 is a lot to risk on a short term solution. If you only get 1500 A4 sheets before it dies then the cost is £1.42, not 42p
    I am not sure where you are getting your numbers from but they are way off. Although I do not have any idea on the final costs I am pretty confident in saying it will be significantly less than £1500. Also, I assume you have plucked 1500 sheets as a guess. I run a UV printer which uses white ink, UV ink is about the worst ink you can get for running through an Epson print head and the machine requires constant maintenance (although right now it is in bits!) even this machine has given me considerably more than 1500 prints. If you run the daily maintenance on a DTF machine there is no reason why the machine will not run and run. Also, most of the cost involved in an entry level machine would be in the Acrorip software. If you were unlucky enough to have a machine break which is not covered by warranty (something you do not get from ebay!) then you only have to purchase a new printer. If we took the stupidly low number of 1500 sheets as a time to replace the printer then you would still only be looking at sub £1.00 per transfer.

    I wouldn't consider anything less than A3/A3+ for garment use.
    In 20+ years, I can count on one hand the times that I have required more than A4 for clothing, but that is probably down to my market(s). As I said previously, I am not sure I like "vinyl" that large on clothing anyway. That said, I have done a couple of tests where I split a design. It worked well and with a bit more "playing" would be spot on. These garments are out on test to see if the split affects the washing and tumble drying in anyway. If it does I will report back.

    Although... I will probably purchase an A3 model for very different reasons. I am a volume supplier and need something that I can leave to run without feeding the sheets etc. You can do that with a roll fed machine which are only available in the wider formats.

    One of the drawbacks for me is that DTF has already gone to the DIY market before there are many commercial quality machines around. The weekend warriors and dinning room table mob will be in the game and carving the prices before the pro shops get an affordable decent machine.
    Absolutely the same with everything whether its mugs, garments of theiving copyright ;-) Only thing I will say is that this time round I think it was the commercial machine manufacturer's that were too slow. The great thing about the Epson Ecotank 6 colour machines is that you can test any ink in them and see what happens. The ten grand + commercial models do not have that luxury sadly.

    I would love for Alex to have a success with this and make me eat my words.
    I'll fetch your knife and fork LOL
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  4. #14
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    The £1500 price was just a ball park figure that ties on with what a lot of people are selling their A3+ DIY printers for. Even if the A4 is half that price then we are still looking at a lot of money. A six colour Epson L805 converted to sublimation is nearly £450, so a proper DTF conversion is not going to be cheap.

    Is 1500 sheets stupidly low for output? Epson only rate most of their prosumer photo printers at 6000 sheets with their own photo ink. They won't last anyway near that with DTF ink, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to back that up from existing users. I stand by my estimate of 1500 A4 prints. Wear and tear will have to be taken into account and costed for.
    Buying a DIY DTF isn't like buying a Virtuoso or a Cricut. You can't leave them sat on the shelf unused all week. There will be a lot of hobbyists very disappointed

    I have been printing garments since 2006, and aside from breast logos more than half of my prints have been larger than A4. The ratio of large prints is higher for screen printed shirts For me if this doesn't replace multi colour screen printing then it is of little interest.

    Sorry I didn't respond to your ad as favourably as you thought it deserved, but you seem to be taking things personally.

    Like I said, I hope Alex proves me wrong.

  5. #15
    Premium Member Tetris Champion, Space Invaders Champion, Asteroids Champion
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    Not taking anything personal at all fella, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and it is good to discuss things, I just happen to think you are wrong on some of your numbers.

    Until IE actually say what the price is I think it is very difficult to speculate and offer up any opinion, guessing is simply what it is... a guess and not something I tend to get involved in.

    Also, I offer up evidence A m'lord in why I think they will last a lot longer than 1500 prints. Both these machines have sublimation ink. I am pretty happy with a total of 55,000 prints in 3 years. Even if it packs up tomorrow I will not be sad. The second machine has only done 8000 so is still a pup :-) These are Epson 2711 ecotanks.

    Attachment 6994

    I am reliably informed that you can leave the DTF printer turned off for 2 weeks and after a strong head clean it should be up and ready to run. As I have not been away I can not say this for sure but I did leave it over the weekend and it only required a normal clean. Like all reputable suppliers, they are not going to supply something that can not be used under normal circumstances, and having the ability to leave it for 2 weeks has to be one of the standards, particularly for hobbyists.

    I did run a gentle clean each morning though. All cleans were done through WIC RESET utility. My morning routine has always been kettle on; nozzle check Versacam; nozzle check both Epson sublimation printers; nozzle check UV printer, I just added the DTF nozzle check to that list. I totally accept that they do require maintenance, but what doesn't. Even my white OKI needs a decent clean every now and then.

    If we took your number of £450 for a replacement machine and only getting 1500 prints you are looking at an additional 30p per transfer so still not too bad. Plus, this machine is not aimed to replace a professional screen print set up. Ignoring the much higher costs of decent screen printing set up the market is different. I see see this machine aimed at the creative type who sell across platforms such as Etsy. I used to own a screen printing company with 16 people working for me. I still would have this set up in my outfit for orders of multiple colours and less than 100 garments though.

    I must have been very lucky in my 20+ years printing then as my ratio is considerably different. As a side note, it dissapoints me to say that it is probably nearer 30+ years... God I am old ;-)
    USING: Whatever it takes to get the job done...

  6. #16
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    Dtf is a game changer for me! I can turn around jobs much faster as there is no wedding needed. And you can go very small as you show on your picture.
    I use my DTG printer to create my transfers.

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  7. #17
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    What DTG printer do you have Paul? And are you using it for both DTF and DTG?

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