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  1. #11
    Senior Member Ian M's Avatar
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    I'd have thought they are breaking the ASA code which is 'The ASA is the UK's independent regulator of advertising across all media, including marketing on websites. We work to ensure ads are legal, decent, honest and truthful by applying the Advertising Codes'. If some had a word with the ASA then they should have a word with Listerwood & would be interesting to see if Listerwood still made the claim.

  2. #12
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    I guess phrases like "Dishwasher Proof" "Dishwasher Safe" and "Handwash Recomended" are open to interpretation and with sublimation being a niche industry, no real set standards. Hard to prove anything without there being a set rule for how many washes and in what type of dishwasher with which detergent etc makes a mug dishwasher safe/proof.

  3. #13
    Senior Member bms's Avatar
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    Just by way of an update to this thread...

    Duraglaze is RN coating. That is confirmed.

    As for Orca coated mugs - we have the possibility to source these and are considering getting some in. I know TMT sell them at £36 +vat on a case of 36 plus delivery. So here's an offer for you to think about over Easter - think of it as a Co-Op buy. There are a maximum of 2016 mugs available (56 cases)...

    Offer only available to DSF members
    If all 56 cases sell the best price is £38 inc vat, inc delivery each - offer only available to DSF members
    If up to 28 cases sell the best price is £40 inc vat, inc delivery each

  4. #14
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    Nice offer Martin - are these Orca coated mugs safe to be washed in a dishwasher without them damaging the printed image?

  5. #15
    Senior Member JSR's Avatar
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    It's a pity that this offer didn't come six months ago, Martin.

    Since Listawood's scurrilous claims about Orca coatings, I'm having no choice but to look for alternatives once again. I don't need my customers to see the Orca stamp, do a Google, and "discover" that they're "budget" mugs for "handwash only".

    I don't buy Orca mugs because they're a "budget" mug - I do so because RN coated mugs have the white spot/pinprick problem. But that doesn't change the effects that the Listawood claim is causing.

    I got no reply from Revolution when I asked them about this claim and about the dishwasher-safe properties of Orca, and I can't find who it is that manufacturers Orca-coatings to ask for clarification.

    As much as I have personally done dishwasher-safe tests and know that they will survive dishwashing, and as much as it's unfathomable that Orca would stamp "Orca" on the bottom of their mugs if they were corner-cutting budget mugs with inferior "handwash-only" coatings, this is of no defence when trying to convince customers that these are good mugs.

    If it's possible for you to obtain some kind of technical document to prove the dishwasher-safe properties of Orca, then I would feel much more comfortable with continuing to use them because I could provide the document to my customers to counter Listawood's damaging claims.

    Without this, there's no way I could commit to a multiple-box order.

  6. #16
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    JSR - I've been told that Listawoods wording on their site is going to be changing shortly and that is from the main importers of Orca.


    That is a good price considering it is a decent coating. Never had a problem with Orca coatings so far and the supplier I use has a very good, straight and exceptionally white mug. I've printed many thousands of these without issue.

  7. #17
    Senior Member JSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
    JSR - I've been told that Listawoods wording on their site is going to be changing shortly and that is from the main importers of Orca.


    That is a good price considering it is a decent coating. Never had a problem with Orca coatings so far and the supplier I use has a very good, straight and exceptionally white mug. I've printed many thousands of these without issue.
    That is reassuring news. Do you know if the main importer has a technical document that confirms dishwasher-safe properties?

    The irony here is that Listawood's ceramic plates are also Orca coated. Before this, they were not at all diswasher-safe. Just a couple of handwashes would see the print disappearing before your eyes. Since they've been Orca-coated, they've been dishwasher-safe. For Listawood to claim that Orca isn't dishwasher-safe is just barmy. But, without proof, there's nothing to reassure the customer.

  8. #18
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    I doubt there is anything to say as there is no testing organisation to guarantee this. It's just something the supplier might make up I guess. The boxes come with Dishwasher proof printed on them. As Martin said, Listawood claim to have the best coating in the industry with their Duraglaze where as it is really RN coating so no better than what Larting and many others supply. It's not a heavily governed industry so many can largely claim what they want. I know the Orca importers have taken issue with what they have said though.

  9. #19
    Senior Member JSR's Avatar
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    Even though there may be no standard industry testing organisation to keep everything in order, just a document from the manufacturer stating dishwasher-proofness would be more than we have now.

    The current situation is that it's one person's word against another - with neither having any way of backing up their claim. And, in a situation whereby one seller says "it's not dishwasher safe" and another says "it is dishwasher safe", the end-user is always going to err on the side of caution and believe that it's not dishwasher safe. It's what I would do. Reputation is the toughest thing to build, but the easiest thing to destroy.

    A document from the manufacturer confirming dishwasher-proofness would go some way towards defending the product from those who would seek to bring it down.

    Orca apparently insist that products using the Orca-coating must be stamped, so they must have some kind of document that backs up their confidence in the product.

  10. #20
    Senior Member bms's Avatar
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    Orca apparently insist that products using the Orca-coating must be stamped, so they must have some kind of document that backs up their confidence in the product.
    I don't think this is true JSR. I can get Orca coated mugs without them being stamped and that's from the business partner who has the rights to the Orca coating. I could get one of my old emails of a few years ago that said "our mugs are dishwasher proof" from many a Chinese supplier, but it's not worth anything as they are not.

    Even the the business partner of Orca confirms they aren't as good as RN coating but reckons they are 85% as good (I leave that open to interpretation).

    I think this confirms that RN (AKA duraglaze) still leads the way in terms of durability, but there are some other coatings getting close.

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